Viewing 40 posts - 1,961 through 2,000 (of 13,537 total)
  • Brexit 2020+
  • kelvin
    Full Member

    some of us are going to try and sort out this mess

    Tell me one thing you’re doing to “sort out” this mess, rather than just deal with it as comes at you. I’ll join you in doing it if you can identify it.

    csb
    Full Member

    Anyone who voted remain is entitled to feel as many of us do, that the UK is now an embarassing mess that doesn’t reflect our values. Good luck RNP, I’d also leave if I had the option.

    RustyNissanPrairie
    Full Member

    Well if that’s how you feel good riddance to you some of us are going to try and sort out this mess even though it may take quite a bit of time.

    I’m all ears – how are we going to sort it?

    Didn’t think so. Au revoir.

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    binners
    Full Member

    Outward migration is huge at the moment.

    It is indeed, and has been since the referendum result. But it’s the nature of the exodus too. Those leaving are The most highly skilled and educated. It’s a brain drain, and those leaving are being welcomed with open arms by more forward-thinking countries in the EU, keen to utilise their skills.

    Global Britain, eh? Marvellous.

    dannyh
    Free Member

    Well if that’s how you feel good riddance to you some of us are going to try and sort out this mess even though it may take quite a bit of time.

    Are we about to be treated to another ‘remainers must take their share of the blame too’ play?

    If so, don’t bother. I didn’t vote for this.

    If someone could provide a list of actions I could practically take as an individual to mitigate the damage this is going to do I am all ears. I presume we’ve given up actually looking for positives now and are looking to form some kind of ‘Dunkirk Spirit’ to mitigate totally unnecessary and self-inflicted damage?

    Presumably the main thing Leavers think Remainers could do is stop pointing out Leaver stupidity, in which case they are going to be disappointed. I might consider it if Leavers apologised en masse and asked for help to mitigate the damage they have caused. I might even be willing to forego making them march through towns and villages in big pointy hats with placards reading ‘idiot’ around their necks.

    But Leavers never have to apologise, do they? Because….

    ‘Patriotism’ I presume.

    Anyhoo, get back to me with that list when you’ve got it, yeah?

    doomanic
    Full Member

    1. Emigrate
    2. See point 1
    3. Err, that’s all I’ve got

    dannyh
    Free Member

    Oh, and best of luck RNP. I wish I had the same options, but family ties are too tight on my wife’s side to consider leaving this country.

    But I wouldn’t begrudge anyone who has the opportunity to opt out of this shitshow exercising that option. That sort of petty minded bitterness is what largely caused this whole fiasco in the first place.

    eskay
    Full Member
    molgrips
    Free Member

    I’d be out of here like a shot if I didn’t have ageing parents in poor health.

    kjcc25
    Free Member

    It was the way you phrased your feeling for this country that made me angry. Some of us have not got that option to just leave and have to make the best of it. Hopefully in four years time, if Labour get things right next election, we may be able to get rid of this useless government. Turning your back on the country will not help. I apologize for what I said and I hope you are successful in your new venture.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Turning your back on the country will not help.

    And what will “help”? Tell us how we can help undo the damage being done, and we’ll all help you.

    His country has turned its back on him. Even if we get a Labour government again at some point in the future, we can not “sort out this mess”… it is a one way street… which is why so many of us wanted to “measure twice cut once”… and were labelled traitors and undemocratic merely for suggesting that.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    Thoughts and prayers.

    grum
    Free Member

    It was the way you phrased your feeling for this country that made me angry.

    I feel very little affinity for the concept of this country any more. There are obviously still good people but wider society is increasingly selfish, angry, bigoted, irrational, chaotic, unequal, unfair.

    I keep seeing stuff about how ‘remainers’ need to try and understand Brexit supporters and not condemn them, and I try but it’s very hard. I have never seen any slight inkling of understanding going in the other direction.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I can understand Brexit supporters. I can sympathise. The issue is that they have been duped by nationalists over the years. Duped over many things but not least into thinking that we’d all be better off out. We won’t be.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    it’s very hard. I have never seen any slight inkling of understanding going in the other direction.

    Why should they? The won and we lost and we need to shut up and get over it, remember.

    It is difficult. It’s tough not to resort to insults when all we’ve had coming the other way is hostility, anger and abuse. There are exceptions – we had one on here a few pages back who managed to bring themselves to stop and think and ultimately to reevaluate their position – but they’re incredibly rare.

    And sure, it might well be the case that the ones still arguing on the Internet are a shouty pineapple-ringed minority that are not representative of “leavers” as a whole. I’d hazard that that’s highly likely, even. But they’re the only ones who care sufficiently to still be engaging and the bulk of them fall into the “playing chess with a pigeon” category. They don’t want to learn anything, they just want to win.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    I can understand Brexit supporters. I can sympathise. The issue is that they have been duped by nationalists over the years. Duped over many things but not least into thinking that we’d all be better off out. We won’t be.

    I understand at least some of their motives, not all of which were a dislike of brown people. But the elephant in the room is that brexit will not address any of the issues they claim are important to them. Not one.

    And when you try and explain this and their response is to go “well I still want it” then, well…

    molgrips
    Free Member

    But the elephant in the room is that brexit will not address any of the issues they claim are important to them. Not one.

    That’s the elephant in their room. Not remainers’ rooms.

    teethgrinder
    Full Member

    elephant in their room

    Indian, African, or do they hate both as they’re forrin and a different colour?

    dannyh
    Free Member

    His country has turned its back on him. 

    The issue is that they have been duped by nationalists over the years. Duped over many things but not least into thinking that we’d all be better off out. We won’t be.

    But the elephant in the room is that brexit will not address any of the issues they claim are important to them. Not one.

    And when you try and explain this and their response is to go “well I still want it” then, well…

    All of the above. I think many of the Brexies who are now having doubts (when was the last time even someone like Rees Mogg tried to pretend there were any upsides, by the way?) still think that this is going to be reversible in some way. It isn’t.

    Take what is going to happen with US Pharma and drug prices as part of any US trade deal. Once the NHS is exposed to open market drug pricing you can forget chucking a few billion at it every other year. It will immediately wipe out any funding increases and have an immediate and real detrimental impact on the services available.

    Now, even if the US elects a hybrid of Mother Teresa, Karl Marx and St Franxis of Assisi, there is no way any of them will dare say to the American people “I am putting up your drug prices so we can give the limeys back their NHS”. 100% irreversible. Gone. Forever. For what? Blue Passports.

    Interesting that rabid Brexies accuse anyone who expresses doubt about their pet project of treason.

    Acting to the detriment of one’s own country, I.e. Brexit, seems much closer to the definition of treason than anything any remainers have done.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    I’d be out of here like a shot if I didn’t have ageing parents in poor health

    If I could afford it, I’d be off too. NZ looks nice…

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    But the elephant in the room is that brexit will not address any of the issues they claim are important to them. Not one.

    And when you try and explain this and their response is to go “well I still want it” then, well…

    This is exactly where some of my family and friends are. They are determined that Brexshit will be some kind of overnight solutions to all that is ‘wrong’ in the UK as they see it. And if not, they still want it and Brexshit will not be a cause of any issues as they see it.

    We are in for a bumpy winter of growing discontent IMO.

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    the bulk of them fall into the “playing chess with a pigeon” category. They don’t want to learn anything, they just want to win shit all over the board.

    Malvern Rider
    Free Member

    (A few threads converge here)

    ‘Don’t let Trump rewrite our food standards‘ petition here for anyone interested:

    https://secure.greenpeace.org.uk/page/s/ProtectUKfoodstandards

    frankconway
    Full Member

    malvern – here’s a view from the US.
    https://thehill.com/opinion/international/512235-us-uk-play-chicken-over-chlorinated-chicken
    I totally disagree with the article but it’s worth noting as an example of the arguments being put forward; expect there to be a lot more of this.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    The arguments are irrelevant, the USA farming lobby will gets the reduced standards they want. We don’t exactly hold all the cards.

    That article is full of nonsense though…

    dannyh
    Free Member

    the USA farming lobby full stop will get the reduced standards they want as well as pretty much anything else. We don’t exactly hold all the cards have our pants down.

    FTFY.

    dannyh
    Free Member

    Hopefully in four years time, if Labour get things right next election, we may be able to get rid of this useless government. 

    Great. And then what?

    Most of the damage will be irreversible.

    At least the rednecks in the US were smart* enough to Express their little racist/xenophobic pant-shitting in a way that is actually largely reversible after four years.

    Not us stoic Brits, though. Oh no, when we **** something up we do it properly.

    *I know it was just the same anti-progress lashing out in the US as here and Cletus and Deke wouldn’t have been considering anything beyond the next day, but the fact remains that the damage Trump has done and is doing can be largely erased by electing someone who isn’t mentally ill. ‘Our’ shitshow is far worse and long lasting.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    And as negotiations gon on the PM and his cabinet do their upmost to insult and upset politicians from over the channel. The news in the Times/Guardian is read by people over here and it’s lots of hissy fits about immigrants and Covid, and Germany and… . Read from this side of the channel it’s just nasty, provacative, selfish. There was Pritty Patel accusing France of Racism if you looked no further than the misleading headlines and it was little better if you got beyond the headlines. Not a good atmosphere to be begging for better than a raised digit from Europe.

    alex222
    Free Member

    In the interest of balance, I have returned to the UK. Admittedly to study further and I will probably leave again once I have gained all the qualifications that I want. I would also add that employment law here is much better than anywhere in the USA, Canada, Mexico, etc.

    fadda
    Full Member

    And now that the European influence has been “escaped” …?

    The content of this thread, and almost all of its predecessor, have shown how one of the main purposes of this exercise is to do away with all that inconvenient nonsense…

    grum
    Free Member

    I’m pretty sure one of the ‘benefits’ of Brexit is ‘increased flexibility’ for employers in terms of job security and working conditions/safety, leading to a ‘more dynamic workforce’.

    dannyh
    Free Member

    I would also add that employment law here is much better than anywhere in the USA, Canada, Mexico, etc.

    Not for long.

    I’m pretty sure one of the ‘benefits’ of Brexit is ‘increased flexibility’ for employers in terms of job security and working conditions/safety, leading to a ‘more dynamic workforce’.

    I believe the word of choice amongst tosspot consultants who charge the earth to ruin people’s jobs in the interests of ‘efficiency’ (aka cost-cutting) is ‘agility’.

    Get someone external in talking about ‘agility’ and you can guarantee two things:

    1. Their hourly rate is extortionate.

    2. Everyone below senior management is going to get more work to do for no rise in pay.

    Expect many of these buzzword bullshitters to be circling public services in particular like flies on shit.

    uselesshippy
    Free Member

    I don’t get this brexiteer thing of all taking responsibility and pulling together to fix their screw up. If you punch yourself in he nuts, I’m not going to massage your balls better, I’m going to stand back and laugh. And that’s exactly what I’m going to do after brexit.

    Malvern Rider
    Free Member

    If you punch yourself in the nuts, and then kick me and mine even harder in the face then I’m not going to massage your balls better, I’m going to leave you were you chose to be. I choose instead now to leave this place. But you had to add insult to injury by locking us here together and throwing away the key forcing us to watch, listen and suffer as you continue to blame anyone except yourself (or your cult of wreckers) for the shituation

    FTFY

    ferrals
    Free Member

    Nice to see the lies about improving environmental standards post-brexit being already being firmly exposed for the bullshit they were:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/19/environment-agency-chief-backs-plan-to-water-down-river-cleanliness-rules-james-bevan

    benpinnick
    Full Member

    I can understand Brexit supporters. I can sympathise. The issue is that they have been duped by nationalists over the years. Duped over many things but not least into thinking that we’d all be better off out. We won’t be.

    My builder yesterday was saying that ‘We’ll show them all, that lot in brussels. They’ll be sorry they forgot about us’

    He was talking about the NE of england where I live. I asked him if it wasn’t more likely Maggie that created the feeling of being forgotten… His response – ‘Well at least she’d have told them where to go.’ (The EU that is)

    Its basically hopeless. There’s a whole generation of people brain washed into thinking that the EU has some significant control over their lives that is somehow out of the hands of our Gov’t and they’d be better if only the EU wasn’t around doing that bad thing that it does.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    lies about improving environmental standards post-brexit

    This is going to get so much more messy than even these early signs suggest… both metaphorically and literally. A dirty sore on the edge of Europe, acting politically as if truly a mid-Atlantic island, without really gaining much from that economically.

    willard
    Full Member

    This situation continues to make me extremely sad. I escaped a couple of years ago to Sweden, but keep looking back and wondering what the hell I can do to help make things better, all the time knowing that there is nothing I can do.

    What is worse is that I can see the steady march of nationalism and small, closed minded behaviour gradually making footholds in other countries. It’s like Brexit has made other nationalist parties and supporters bolder in what they do and say and has legitimised their behaviour.

    I’m glad I got out when I did, but hugely sorry for the people that could not do the same then and cannot now.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    ‘We’ll show them all, that lot in brussels.

    Did you point out that one tenth of “that lot in Brussels” were British MEPs?

    They’ll be sorry they forgot about us’

    He was talking about the NE of england where I live.

    Shove your postcode in here.

    https://www.myeu.uk/

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