Brexit 2020+

Ok – now imagine political leadership saying ” its a disaster it needs to be reversed” how much will that add to the polling

Not half as much as they’ll lose when the same incredibly effective ‘bloody foreigners, eh?! The murdering, raping, job-stealing bastards’ campaign cranks up again

This worked then, and it’ll work just as well next time…

A country is not the same as a city.  Somewhat patronising policecameraaction

Patronising is calling the political elected leader of that city a “fringe figure” in English politics because it doesn’t suit your nationalist agenda or you just don’t know anything about English politics.

Since we are getting into it, Khan has been consistently outspoken about Brexit, air quality, climate change and austerity. He has expanded ULEZ to protect a population greater than that of the whole of Scotland, reduced the price of bus travel, used procurement rules cleverly to get safer low level HGVs, pushed the Met Police (50% larger than Police Scotland btw) into a reform stance and been vocal with criticism…These are real practical things you can achieve when you prioritise competence and don’t blame your constitutional limitations for your own failings. He has also been re-elected several times despite a tidal wave of racial and other abuse online (mostly from people that don’t live in London afaics).

How’s it going with the political giants in Edinburgh? Enjoying the ferries? Bottle recycling going okay?

A country is not the same as a city.

Not spent much time in London, have you? It’s not just ‘a’ city.

Not going to open that debate here but it’s an interesting one.

I lived in London for a while.  Its just another big dirty polluted city like Paris or Barcelona etc etc  To compare it to a country is fatuous.  Kahn has nothing like the  powers of the Scots parliament.  London does not have its own legal system.  I did not call him a “fringe” pokitician

I can’t even be bothered to list all the accomplishments of the Scots parliament over its lifetime to compare.

It was brought to my attention on the Sunak thread, but tonight at 2230 on beeb 1 could be the TV comedy event of the year.

A Question Time special from Clackton (😂) only open to audience members who voted Leave.

Guaranteed laughs, I suspect.

I wonder, will the BBC actually do it properly and replace the theme tune with the one from the Benny Hill Show?

Absolutely **** brilliant!

Or this:

A Question Time special from Clackton

That’s good, as afterwards they can lead all these stupid **** off the pier.

A Question Time special from Clackton (😂) only open to audience members who voted Leave.

I understand that the Govt were given an invitation to fill a spot on the panel, but turned it down? Presumably they’re too frit to face the people that voted for it.

I understand that the Govt were given an invitation to fill a spot on the panel, but turned it down? Presumably they’re too frit to face the people that voted for it.

I don’t get it. Seeing as it is all going so swimmingly, I would have thought the government would be all over that invite.

😂😂😂😂

That’s good, as afterwards they can lead all these stupid **** off the pier.

It’ll be a piece of piss to get them there too – just announce that there’s an opportunity to do a bit of migrant dinghy spotting.

Seeing as it is all going so swimmingly, I would have thought the government would be all over that invite.

Precisely. All the ministers wanted to go and so they decided it was fairest if no one went.
Its the only explanation.

7th anniversary of *that* vote.

I wonder what “balance” criteria they used for audience selection. I’m guessing to won’t have only 1/5 saying Brexit has gone well…

Less than a fifth of Brexit voters believe it has been a success seven years on from the 2016 referendum, according to new polling.

The findings, based on an online survey of 4,005 UK adults from May 26 to June 2 and carried out by Public First for UK in a Changing Europe, show that 18% of Leave voters believe Brexit has gone “well” or “very well”.

link from Twitter

I lived in London for a while.  Its just another big dirty polluted city like Paris or Barcelona etc etc  To compare it to a country is fatuous. 

Yes, certainly there’s nothing in London that compares to the importance of a country like Moldova or Andorra or eSwatini. Yep, the kinds of complexity associated with being a sovereign state are completely unknown to us plebs that merely live in a semi-autonomous, sub-national local government area. 🤔

We thought Johnson was a **** for spending £43m on Joanna Lumley’s bridge that didn’t get built. But that’s amateur hour compared to Sturgeon blowing £300m on ferries that aren’t finished!

As for the Brexit Bumpkin Question Time, nope…..got as far as John Redwood opening his mouth before I switched off. I knew I’d have dreams of going full on Ryan Gosling in Drive, specifically the elevator scene on redwood, and most of the slack jawed dribbling idiots in the audience deserve the same.

It was brought to my attention on the Sunak thread, but tonight at 2230 on beeb 1 could be the TV comedy event of the year.

Not much of a laugh so far. Alastair Campbell is telling it to them straight – they were lied to.

The opposition is playing catch-up with public opinion in recognising that Britain needs reintegration with Europe

Labour is committed to a programme of entirely sensible tinkering at the edges of the problem – alignment with EU regulations as a precondition for lowering trade barriers; more liberal visa policies; renewed partnership with cultural and scientific institutions that make up the wider constellation of the European project.

That is an agenda for reintegration at the periphery of Europe, which is sound diplomacy and helpful at the economic margins, but cannot substantially shift the dial as long as Britain is still outside the single market and customs union.

Wake up Starmer!  Try some leadership

Article in the grauniad which like always praises Starmer over all and is full of wishful thinking

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/21/the-guardian-view-on-labour-and-brexit-slowly-getting-it-right

Just got in and watching QT on catch up

The only person the Tory’s could get is John Redwood

JOHN ****ING REDWOOD!!!

That tells you everything you need to know

****ing clowns!

Finally a tangible benefit I can use.

I’m going to go up on my roof later and no faceless Brussels bureaucrat can stop me!

#BBCQT Brexit Special audience member is "not unhappy" with how Brexit is going, because at least now "people in France and Germany" don't "go up on their roofs with nothing". ~AA ??‍♂️ pic.twitter.com/M1Denj5LMk

— Best for Britain (@BestForBritain) June 22, 2023

There’s a load on twitter, satirists can once again take the week off.

I didn’t watch it in the end. I doubt I’ll bother. It sounds about as funny as watching lambs waiting patiently in a holding pen at the abattoir. And very similar on a number of levels.

I may rewatch it in full later, but hearing dickhead roof guy holding that up as a benefit to a guy whose business may go under due to difficulties and costs of importing goods, that was too much.

Dickhead roof guy? 🤔

Wake up Starmer!  Try some leadership

You cannot negotiate to return to the EU from opposition.

No – but he could be leading and moulding public opinion instead he is way way behind fighting against public opinin and gaslighting and lying about brexit

Yeah – unfortunately plenty of voters are like whatsherchops in the clip who don’t like it when “we change our minds all the time”. Of course they have no fing idea what that means or what the issues are, but running on a platform of “five more years of mind-changing with me” is not a vote winner.

There is also the real risk that a new Labour government could end up completely preoccupied with negotiating to join the EU and not achieve any of the other important things or get re-elected. It’s cute to say “do two things at once” but as we have seen from Brexit and COVID, the state and the legislature have limited bandwidth.

The problem is as that without a proper trading relationship with the EU then everything labour wants to do is much much harder.  the other is by focusing so intently on not upsetting a few racists in a few northern constituencies he is going to lose votes and seats in other areas.  Scotland particularly which Starmer say he wants to focus on and to gain seats to govern for all of the Uk he is only going to attract votes from unionist brexiteers and thus find it very hard to cut into the SNP vote – despite the disarray of the SNP because he is handing the SNP an easy to use weapon

final point is the UK is moving away from brexit and to rejoin quickly and strongly.  He could be leading that move instead he is resisting it.

OK – I know I have laboured this point (sic) so won’t go on about it again but I thought it interesting that Guardian article makes th esame point I have been making even if refusing as ever to blame Starmer

but he could be leading and moulding public opinion

Cool, and the right wing press and paid commentators on SM print days and days of stories about how “Starmer will rape your beautiful British Brexit with illegal woke Migrants” and all the other shite that it will do, and Sunak will stand at the despatch box and every question Starmer asks will be answered with “But you want to Steal the hard working families Brexit”

No thanks.

I get at face value what Starmer says you get that impression [that he is for Brexit] but a close reading it clearly interprets as something else, you’re not daft, and you understand this, so what else is it that makes you not want to vote for him?

I understand exactly what he is doing.  he is running scared of racists in those northern constituencies and he is gaslighting and lying about brexit  He is unfortunately fighting against public opinion.  I believe this will cost him a majority as labour will lose so many votes to pro EU parties.  I also do not accept the magical and wishful thinking from many which is that he is not saying what he means.  I am sure he means it with no CU. NO SM no FOM so therefore no significant raproachment with the EU

How come you guys think only the right can lead public opinion?

In todays grauniad

Data showed 58% would vote to re-enter bloc, while more respondents said they trusted the European Commission more than the UK government

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/23/britons-who-want-to-rejoin-eu-at-highest-since-2016-survey-finds

I will never vote for a party of brexiteers which is what labour is.  simple as that

he is running scared of racists in those northern constituencies and he is gaslighting and lying about brexit

You do know that Labour know who all the racists and idiots are and just say “No thanks I’d rather not have that vote, thanks, give it to the other side” right?

Has anyone else been keeping up with what Gina Miller has been up to?

Has formed a new party and has today come out and said “it’s time to start moving towards rejoin”…

I get at face value what Starmer says you get that impression [that he is for Brexit] but a close reading it clearly interprets as something else

Ah yes, the ‘he’s saying one thing but he actually means something else’ argument for Starmer.

You do realise that once you’ve voted for him and it turns out he meant exactly what he said you will have absolutely no right to complain?

You are the dictionary definition of wishful thinking.

The point is TJ you know that successful politicians say the things that they’re audience want to hear. You could listen to Starmer on the EU and decide that he’s wholly for Brexit and the thing that you’ve waited for your whole life for, is safe in his hands. You can also listen to what Starmer is saying and conclude that he’s starting the long journey* back to closer integration and perhaps re-admission. That’s what wins elections in this country, you may wish it was something different, but t’aint.

* And it will be, I think

This new party?

https://www.trueandfairparty.uk/

Are we all having the same cyclical argument with TJ’s delusions?

If Starmer even mentions rejoining, which will have to involve ‘UNLIMITED MIGRATION!!!!!’ he snatches defeat from the jaws of victory and we’ve got 5 more years of the Tories

You may want to delude yourself that thats not what would happen but you’d be wrong, because the right wing press would go into hysterical racist, will of the people overdrive and the election would be fought on a single issue which labour would lose

You can also listen to what Starmer is saying and conclude that he’s starting the long journey* back to closer integration and perhaps re-admission.

It need not be a long journey and that is most certainly not what he is saying at all.  sorry dude thats wishful thinking

I understand why he has taken that stance but II believe it a huge mistake and he has made it totally clear that he has no interesting in getting any closer to the EU or reversing brexit at all.  Thinking otherwise is wishful thinking IMO

You are the dictionary definition of wishful thinking.

Voting is pretty much the definition of wishful thinking. It’s what we’ve got. Overall I think that a Starmer Govt will in all likelihood be better for the folks who really need Govt to do better by them. That’s my entire wish fulfilment dreams come true.

So Binners – only the right can influence public opinion?  Even with both labour and the tories being enthusiastic brexiteers public opinion is moving away from brexit rapidly

I strongly believe and the polling and local elections show that this is going to cost Starmer a majority.  He is going against public opinion.  58% want to rejoin – how much more could he add to that pushing at an open door rather than trying to hold it closed

Its Starmer and his supporters that are delusional old chap 🙂

and that is most certainly not what he is saying at all

The Guardian article that you triumphantly linked to this morning is a long winded version of what I just said. You’ve admitted that you understand that he’s just being a politician by appealing to both sides, why then, keep up this monotone delusion?

Overall I think that a Starmer Govt will in all likelihood be better for the folks who really need Govt to do better by them. That’s my entire wish fulfilment dreams come true.

Better than the Tories? Sure, why not.  Difficult to be much worse.

Very much better?  Not a chance.  Tory-lite at best.

And all you’re doing by voting Labour is continuing the cycle.  You are voting not just to shaft people for the next 5 years but you’re voting to shaft people for the next 50 years.

Vote Labour if it means that much to you, but don’t try to pretend it’s going to make one bit of difference in the long run.  And probably not much difference in the short term either.

Because he is NOT appealing to both sides.  Sure some folk may want to believe he is but he has made it 100% clear  No CU, no SM no FOM thus no rapproachment with the EU thus making any recovery much harder

Its not a monotone delusion – its refusing to be taken in and refusing to engage in wishful thinking.  His position is clear

I understand why he is doing it but I am certain its wrong