Yep…

CPTPP

Bit of a drive in the lorry thou as opposed to the 18 mile to that massive untapped eu market and I’m pretty sure we pretty much sold to countries in the CPTPP prior to Brexit like 🙂

“Am I going to sit here and say that Brexit is perfect and your generation are going to reap the benefits? No I’m not”

Conservatives’ @AndrewBowie_MP says the benefits of Brexit “will be clear to all” but they need to wait for the economy to develop first. #bbcdn pic.twitter.com/msgS1iQqPT

— BBC Debate Night (@bbcdebatenight) March 3, 2021

Brexit and covid have already been blended into a single “economic” issue- thats quite impressive in less than 3 months.

The only problem the gov has is Northern Ireland, but that will be presented as a plucky British victory.

The debate (hardly a debate i know) has moved on. Kier Starmer much to my disappointment has failed to hold this government to account, the Tories now control the narrative and can function in plain sight with an electorate and press that could not even recognise the double bluff of corporation tax rise v the super deduction offset.

The Tories are now very proficient at using the right tools at the right time and then discarding them (Dominic).

There will be an election in 2023 to gain a new “mandate” the Tories will win due to an economy that has been propped by furlough, tax breaks, rising House prices and stored capital been expended.

On the plus side those of us looking to get out of this madness will reap a short term bonus via House prices, pensions, shares etc.

It will be a bubble and as ever the question is when will it pop.

The only problem the gov has is Northern Ireland, but that will be presented as a plucky British victory.

That’s if anyone in GB actually gives a toss, the Tories have sold the unionists down the river and the unionist politicians have been unwitting accomplices in all this and no one in GB has batted an eyelid or cares (which is fine with me and actually quite funny).

Kier Starmer much to my disappointment has failed to hold this government to account

Everyone says this but it’s still not clear to me what that means. Maybe it just means ‘Starmer didn’t do exactly what I wanted even though I’m not quite sure what I did want’. Well, Starmer unfortunately doesn’t just represent you, or me, but lots of other peoples. And like all politicians he has to prostitute himself for votes, he has no choice.

Kier Starmer much to my disappointment has failed to hold this government to account

There’s next to nothing he can do with such a Tory majority. The Tories were ineffective in opposition after 1997 and 2001 elections because the Labour Government could ignore them. This period will be similar for Labour.

What exactly does “holding to account” mean in this context?

The debate (hardly a debate i know) has moved on. Kier Starmer much to my disappointment has failed to hold this government to account, the Tories now control the narrative and can function in plain sight with an electorate and press that could not even recognise the double bluff of corporation tax rise v the super deduction offset.

They hold the control so well that even gerrymandering in plain sight is now seen as do-able #porkbelly

https://mobile.twitter.com/berndlange/status/1367438682337255427

might get bumpy soon

What exactly does “holding to account” mean in this context?

Telling the truth about Brexit. Repeatedly. I.e. stating very clearly that it is a damaging (economically, politically and stability-wise) shitshow that is going to cause a lot of issues going forward and should be reversed forthwith.

The problem is Starmer is bricking it because of his ‘lost’ Red Wall Racists.

might get bumpy soon

It will get bumpy soon. Too many people still think we can have our cake and eat it because of El Alamein or something…🙄

Telling the truth about Brexit. Repeatedly. I.e. stating very clearly that it is a damaging (economically, politically and stability-wise) shitshow that is going to cause a lot of issues going forward and should be reversed forthwith.

That’s just not how politics works.

That’s just not how politics works.

Campaigning politics has changed with the decline in average IQ amongst the electorate. Nowadays, standing on a plinth extolling the virtues of economic self-harm wins you votes so long as you hint that it will be dirty forriners that will suffer more and you mention 1940 and/or 1966 at least once.

Objectively people aren’t getting dumber:

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2013/03/smarter

I think there’s a better correlation with the level of misleading propaganda they are fed than their IQ. And my problem with Starmer is that he’s a part of that propaganda machine, pandering to instincts is more important to him than a blunt honesty which I think in th elong term would earn him more friends. Because If you keep getting proved right you are more crdible than if you keep getting proved wrong, especially when your oppenents are being proved wrong on a daily basis.

What Ed says. We’re not getting dumber. We are being more easily led in certain ways.

Because If you keep getting proved right you are more crdible than if you keep getting proved wrong, especially when your oppenents are being proved wrong on a daily basis.

Not sure about this. The means of motivating supporters and voters are no longer about standing on your record, or about being “right”, sadly. The Conservative’s have absolutely nailed standing for what they say they will do, and getting us to ignore what they have done and said before.

Campaigning politics has changed with the decline in average IQ amongst the electorate.

No, it’s not that. People are constantly being flattered – we’re always told to believe in ourselves and that we matter, our voices matter. Well, that’s true in some ways, but it has limits. We have to believe in ourselves after the required level of education and introspection – not just our knee-jerk responses. And we need to appreciate what we don’t know.

People vote for whatever sounds good, and it sounds good because it appeals to their prejudice and misconception. And the modern right has so little shame they don’t care about exploiting that.

Back on topic, NI is predictably back in the Brexit headlines. And slightly off topic Corbyn could have spent his time as leader of the opposition hamering that point home, as could Starmer now.

And the UK press has suddenly been reminded that the EU parlimament has yet to have its say and can turn a bad deal into no deal if it wishes.

And that was predicatable too, I predicted it on page 125 of this thread.

Campaigning politics has changed with the decline in average IQ amongst the electorate.

I don’t think people are any thicker than they ever were. Far from it. But what has changed is that its now far easier to target people with specific political messages designed specifically to exploit their prejudices.

I can guarantee you that an educated, liberal middle class person will be seeing a very different sort of news from someone less well-educated who the data held on them would suggest is a bit racist

We need to wake up to the effect that unregulated social media is having on our politics and do something about it. But while the people in power benefit enormously from it, theres no chance of that

NI is predictably back in the Brexit headlines.

There is no workable solution to the GFA issue that is acceptable to both sides. There never was.

The EU absolutely refuse to allow the Single Market to be compromised. The UK government is totally cavalier and seems to think that it can unilaterally do what the hell it likes and the EU will ultimately just have to accept it.

It’s not going to end well. I find it terrifying the casual indifference of the Brexiteers to the Northern Irish peace process. They don’t seem to give a toss about the potentially huge implications of the GFA going out of the window

So THe UK has done a deal on whisky but still makes wings for Airbus, that’s going to go down well. If I were the airbuss boss I’d be contacting companies in Europe capable of making wings.

I’m sure many many firms are quietly planning and executing their exit from this parochial little backwater

Take a look at the ownership of Airbus. That’s an interesting one.

Why Del?

Because it’s a number of EU countries, and the UK.

Because it’s a number of EU countries, and the UK.

The UK Government have no shareholding in Airbus. BAE systems sold its stake to EADS in 2006.

Like most multinationals then in terms of share holdings, what’s the UK part? 20%?

Put yourself in the shoes of the The Airbus CEO. There’s currently a deal signed and ratified by one side only. And the side that’s signed in ignoring their side of the bargain whilst showing solidarity with the US and Boeing rahter than than Airbus and the EU. Seeing what could possible wrong if I were in the CEO’s shoes I’d be taking the low level of orders to do some restructuring to reduce the risk of Brexit fallout costing me a fortune and delays down th eline. I think the UK share holders are likely to go along with that rather than oppose it.

The UK Government have no shareholding in Airbus

Whoops! Thanks eb. I wear orthopedic shoes again. 😬

No, it’s not that. People are constantly being flattered – we’re always told to believe in ourselves and that we matter, our voices matter. Well, that’s true in some ways, but it has limits. We have to believe in ourselves after the required level of education and introspection – not just our knee-jerk responses. And we need to appreciate what we don’t know.

People vote for whatever sounds good, and it sounds good because it appeals to their prejudice and misconception. And the modern right has so little shame they don’t care about exploiting that.

I am conflating IQ with ‘worldliness’, ‘naivety’, ‘gullibility’ etc.

Ok – rather than decrease in IQ (strictly defined) I’ll rephrase to increase in general stupidity.

If you don’t seek out alternative views and ask yourself “why is this person saying this and who benefits?” then there is a large element of gullibility.

There is no workable solution to the GFA issue that is acceptable to both sides. There never was.

Indeed.

So much for the ‘Technology’ that was going to save the day. Just more dead cat flim-flam from a bunch of shysters elected on the basis of a lie.

Professor Michael Dougan, Professor of European Law at Liverpool University gives his thoughts on the latest developments with the Northern Ireland Protocol.
“What should we make of the latest developments over NI and the Protocol, i.e. UK’s (second, clear) breach of international legal obligations + escalation of DUP-led agitation through direct loyalist threats to GFA? A few thoughts…
The Most generous explanation for HMG’s actions? The Tories are now more worried about potential for DUP & paramilitary allies to plunge NI into serious disorder, than about immediate legal and diplomatic consequences of UK’s international lawbreaking
But more the likely explanation (since it fits into clear & established pattern), Johnson only ever signed Protocol to “get Brexit done” with no real grasp of its implications / sincere intention of implementing it in good faith, so HMG
simply places little value on own compliance
Combined with (in general) the ideologue’s belief in untrammelled state sovereignty, where rules are optional and obligations exist only for others; and (in particular) the Europhobe’s contempt for the EU, its very existence being a source for spite and antagonism
But UK conduct is unsustainable. We know the Protocol is result of choices made by Johnson & approved by Parliament; there is no credible alternative; it requires trust & cooperation to work; such trust requires honesty, not least about price NI must pay for Johnson’s Hard Brexit
Yet Johnson continues to cover his tracks & mislead the public: “The position of Northern Ireland within the UK internal market is rock solid and guaranteed”. It isn’t. The UK state decided (& it was a choice) that one cost of Hard Brexit = NI’s legal and economic segregation from GB
So long as Johnson refuses to be open and honest, certain NI unionists might believe there’s still a “better solution” – if only they can pile on enough pressure. There isn’t. NI unionists need to understand and accept a brute fact, however unpleasant it may be:
That English nationalists pursued Brexit regardless of cost to UK itself, with DUP’s active assistance. No point complaining about threats to British identity, because the very meaning of “British identity” has been radically redefined by Tory Government and Parliament.
Would be right, eg for EU+US to pile serious pressure on Johnson Regime / make clear & tangible price to be paid by international delinquents. But ultimately NI’s stability depends on NI unionists accepting that Brexit changed everything, and the Tories need to stop lying about it.”

Given how often Johnson has denied the existence of the Irish Sea border I’m really starting to think that he actually has no idea at all what he signed.

It seems to be a recurring theme.

Brexiteer minister hasn’t actually got a ****ing clue about the details and implications of Brexit deal

I’ll rephrase to increase in general stupidity

I don’t think general stupidity has increased. What’s increased is people’s opinion of themselves. Before, they knew they knew nothing about a topic. Now, targeted social media campaigns are mis-informing them and they now think they are informed.

It seems to be a recurring theme.

Christ.

I don’t know what’s worse.

Competent liars or incompetent liars.

Now, targeted social media campaigns are mis-informing them and they now think they are informed.

Thinking you know something about a topic you actually have no idea about and accepting your own prejudices played back to you as ‘fact’ is a very real kind of stupidity.

I’ll rephrase to increase in general stupidity.

People aren’t any more stupid, the tools used on them have become more and more sophisticated, and in the hands of people with a win at any cost attitude… no scruples, no morals, not even worried about the law… because once you’ve won, who cares what you broke in the process? What’s the come back? Nothing.

It seems to be a recurring theme.

He just signs things he’s given to sign, assuming reading or understanding of what he signs is a misconception normal people have 🙂

He got probably the job as for his brexitness not any other merit.

Well, getting a government job based on your ‘brexityness’ must either mean you are a:

Cretin – because still believing in this shitshow when you have access to all number of sources that will tell you it is a shitshow, must make you a cretin.

Exploiter – you know it is a shitshow for 99% of the people you are supposed to act in the best interests of, so you must be on the make financially/politically/both.

If you believe in Brexit in 2021 you are either a cretin or a crook.

The whole electorate being dumber/living in media bubbles thing is interesting. I’ve always likened it to football fans. They tend to socialise with other football fans as they have a common interest that lends itself well to talking about it in lots of social situations. This naturally leads to them being in a bubble of everyone they know liking football. So when I turn up and say I don’t have an opinion on the latest result or transfer move they look at me like I’m odd. For me most of my friends don’t like football so when we socialise we talk about other things like bikes or F1 or (god forbid) politics. If they came into our group they would seem to be the outlier that likes football instead. Social and intellectual bubbles are nothing new, social media has just magnified their effects to a dangerous level.

PS I’m not saying football fans are dumb, some of the brightest people I know like the game!

And the UK press has suddenly been reminded that the EU parliament has yet to have its say and can turn a bad deal into no deal if it wishes.

This is something a lot of people have forgotten, the Deal is not across the line yet. The issue is if the EU do fail to ratify it then the govt and press can easily paint it as ‘the nasty EU denying us our sovereignty’.

Objectively people aren’t getting dumber

Well I am 🙁

In other news my local town Richmond North Yorkshire is level 1 for leveling up funding…

Finally we can get some proper alloys for our Range Rovers…

‘the nasty EU denying us our sovereignty’

But they would be delivering us full and unbridled sovereignty.