Viewing 40 posts - 681 through 720 (of 13,537 total)
  • Brexit 2020+
  • binners
    Full Member

    I’ve just had a sobering thought. With their being no limit on immigration for skilled migrants from all over the world, maybe it’ll soon be the type of middle class slacker who’s got time to be poncing around on Internet forums who’ll then end up wiping arses or picking spuds? 😳

    ajaj
    Free Member

    ultra-neoliberal project that is Brexit

    From Wikipedia (I know):

    “Neoliberalism is generally associated with policies of economic liberalization, including privatization, deregulation, globalization, free trade, austerity”

    vinnyeh
    Full Member

    Companies will need to train more British workers to fill vacancies when the new immigration system kicks in requiring foreign workers to have qualifications and the ability to speak English, Priti Patel, the home secretary, has said.

    In a round of television and radio interviews, she said 8 million people between the ages of 16 and 64 were “economically inactive” and could be given the skills to do jobs in sectors where there were shortages as a result of the new points-based system.

    Never understood the logic in being keen on using immigration to fill higher paying jobs, leaving the locals to pick up the leftovers.

    Or the irony of the party of free markets wanting to be so interventionist in the supply of labour.

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    binners
    Full Member

    Surely the ultimate irony of all this is Home Secretary Priti Patel announcing a points-based immigration system that would have denied entry to the UK to her own parents?

    A few years ago, that would have been an episode of the Thick Of It, nowadays its just par for the course.

    Irony is now bleeding to death in a gutter after the kicking its had for the last few years

    eskay
    Full Member

    Member
    Yeah it would be great if everyone in hospitality, care workers, fruit pickers etc,. earn’t £26K
    How that would actually work and the impacts it would have are not simple though.

    It would push all wages up I would imagine. If a nurse could get more money picking strawberries then they would probably switch to fruit picking! My wife is a nurse and works under extreme pressure everyday, if she could pick strawberries for more money I reckon she would!!

    Then there would be an even bigger shortage of nurses… so put wages up…

    alpin
    Free Member

    I think the UK is in for a whole lot of pain this decade….

    I’m potentially **** and my life as I know it is on the line.

    I feel for you all….

    oldmanmtb2
    Free Member

    This is simply a wealth transfer driver, reduce labour suppy, drive up wages, money moves to poor people and ceeates additional taxes, poor people get charged more for goods and services (beer and rent) hence spend additional money and transfer it to landlords (including Wetherspoons pun intended)

    Additional taxes raised get spent on “infrastructure” projects an endless transfer of debt/wealth.

    oldnpastit
    Full Member

    And when you’re in Sleepy Meadows care home for the terminally bewildered, which one of those machines would you like to wipe your arse?

    My mother actually needs to get into a home like this for the limited time available. Care workers seem to be non-existent. It’s a ****ing nightmare, compounded by other issues, but mainly that one.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    It would probably help had you made an intelligent point in the first place.

    So.. what’s your view then?

    Never understood the logic in being keen on using immigration to fill higher paying jobs, leaving the locals to pick up the leftovers.

    The idea is that importing skills increases the value in what our businesses can do. If a software company has one really good architect and five drones, they might only be able to do one project at a time. If they can get hold of another really good architect they can then do two projects at once, but they need another 5 drones. Theoretically the drones will be youngsters trained in software development, but the issue we’re going to have is that they won’t be able to find any more such youngsters. If we trained more people to become developers then they’d not be able to do whatever it was they would otherwise have done, pick fruit, work in shops etc. Theoretically then, you have to automate those things. But of course not all of it can be automated.

    Restructuring the economy is a hugely difficult project that no-one in government has the first clue about, as is becoming evident.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Care workers are hard to recruit because money is limited. The amount councils pay for care is insufficient to pay workers more

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Given the record numbers of people in work, where are these 8 million extra Brits coming from?

    Or is one of these government triumphs a crock of shite?

    binners
    Full Member

    Given the record numbers of people in work, where are these 8 million extra Brits coming from?

    They’re Schrodinger’s Unemployed

    mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    The actual amount of unemployed might or might not include people on zero hours contracts, depending on time of day and required dictat du jour.

    The ‘forcing the lazy benefit scroungers into employment’ thing is a sop to the old vote, who just want things to be the way they used to be in the 1930s, when men where men, women were women, and people without jobs starved to death in a ditch / froze to death in an unheated house / etc, and it was THEIR FAULT for not working and being guilty of sloth.

    But I’m with kimbers – it’ll be all fudged behind some points system which won’t end up changing that much but will allow the old racists to go an toss off about how jolly pure the locals in Little Whinging are these days.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    I thought this was bang on the money:

    Britain’s existential crisis is now looking very real

    Given the record numbers of people in work, where are these 8 million extra Brits coming from?

    Pretty sure there’s some massaging of figures going on here. You’re statistically ’employed’ if you work one hour a month.

    dazh
    Full Member

    Then there would be an even bigger shortage of nurses… so put wages up…

    I think this is the plan. It will stoke wage inflation, which will in turn supercharge price inflation. People only generally take note of the former though, so Boris will bask in the glory of everyone feeling richer, along with the narrative of reducing benefits expenditure and full employment, while conveniently ignoring the fact that high inflation is a tax on the poor. It’s Trumpian feel-good economics. Remember when he said ‘F*** business!’? Looks like he was telling the truth.

    mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    Schrodinger’s Unemployed

    Chapeau.

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    I don’t think I would have been able to live in the UK with this system.
    When I left the UK, I was working as a catering manager and earning 29k.

    I can guarantee you that hotels and restaurants are not going to pay 26k for waiters, chefs and cleaners. No way.

    raybanwomble
    Free Member

    Japan is leaps and bounds ahead of the UK in terms of automation and yet it is still desperate for the young or poorly educated.

    LAT
    Full Member

    It would push all wages up I would imagine.

    i don’t think it works like that. If you pay people more to pick carrots then the price of carrots increases to cover that so more of people’s income go to pay for carrots.

    nurses wages can’t go up because they are paid from the public purse. Only way to pay them more is to increase money available to the NHS. That would require the increase of tax which would leave less money for carrots.

    If all wages were increased the result would be inflation that would need to be controlled by increasing interest rates which would remove the money from people’s pockets that they can’t use to buy the more expensive goods so companies close and make people redundant.

    that said inflation seems to have been low for years, according to the figures )and so have interest rates). I suspect the low inflation is more misinformation because the price of the weekly shop goes up all the time.

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    Surely the ultimate irony of all this is Home Secretary Priti Patel announcing a points-based immigration system that would have denied entry to the UK to her own parents?

    Nope just shows she’s another hypocrite happy to slam doors in other people’s faces as long they’ve passed thru.

    oldmanmtb2
    Free Member

    I have a lot of Hospitality clients and they have no idea how they are going to get staff.

    One client is offering minimum £10 per hour in the North West and they get zero local applicants.

    binners
    Full Member

    You’d hope that the reality of how the world works would make an appearance at some point.

    Unfortunately, we appear to have a PM who when he said ‘**** business!” Really meant it, surrounded by a bunch of thick-as-mince nodding dogs who are happy to go along with whatever he says

    I reckon I could nip down to my local and come up with some better candidates for government ministers than this lot- given that quite a few of them have actually run successful businesses in the real world. This cabinet couldn’t run a bath and are just echoing right wing neoliberal bullshit they heard on Fox News

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    I have come to the conclusion that Brexit is the biggest economic and social experiment ever conducted in modern history.

    The repurposing of a whole country seemingly overnight. It’s almost Communist in its reach but attempting to do it in a democratic country/manner. Something is going to break.

    To be an historian 100 years from now!

    I reckon it will be a text book example of how a seemingly learned and civilised society can pull the plug on itself.

    dazh
    Full Member

    seemingly learned and civilised society

    You are joking right? There’s nothing learned or civilised about our ‘society’, either in the past or now. Especially now.

    binners
    Full Member

    If you read Naomi Kleins ‘No Logo’, that was a neoliberal economic experiment carried out in the authoritarian regime of Burma. If you read ‘the Shock Doctrine’ that was a neoliberal experiment conducted In Argentina and Chile. All oppressive regimes where it was carried out at gunpoint with the help of death squads.

    The most audacious experiment yet in this weird Miltan Friedman/Ayn Rand narrative is going to take place in an advanced European economy. Ours. And they actually got people to vote for it!

    We should be looking to Chile, Argentina and Burma as to how these things tend to end. It’s fair to say that none went well

    This won’t either

    Well… for 99% of us. For the 1% I’m sure it’ll be absolutely bloody brilliant. Always is.

    I don’t know about you but I’m not happy about being used as a guinea pig, given how the other guinea pigs have ended up.

    The EU know who is the driving forces behind this. The same people who make excuses for Pinochet. They’re not stupid. They know what a threat this is. And they will treat it accordingly

    That doesn’t just mean no deal/crash out/WTO/Australian style deal. That’s just the start of it. This means a full on clash of ideologies. And that never ends well. And like the Mitchell and Web sketch, ‘we’ will be the baddies …

    yourguitarhero
    Free Member

    If we accept that this is happening and we can’t change it, how do I get to be one of the 1 out of 100 winners of Brexit?

    lister
    Full Member

    Start with £100m in an offshore account?

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    The repurposing of a whole country seemingly overnight. It’s almost Communist in its reach but attempting to do it in a democratic country/manner. Something is going to break.

    It’s very odd,I think we are in strange times.

    kerley
    Free Member

    If we accept that this is happening and we can’t change it, how do I get to be one of the 1 out of 100 winners of Brexit?

    You are too late now. You should have planned better, you knew it was coming.

    oldmanmtb2
    Free Member

    I agree with poopscoop, the only bit i am not sure of is the currently invisible internal Tory party civil war. The ERG dont like Dominic or his approach even though he won the election for them. Currently the ERG are keeping their heads down, they dont have much time for the likes of Rishi or Patel.

    Dont think the ERG like HS2, Huawei, the new immigration policy or the new northern Tory MPs much, they will keep quiet if they can get a no deal brexit but post that i think they will hang Boris and Dominic out to dry and blame him for everything.

    Francois has had a little dig at Dominic but was quickly pulled back in

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Google is planning to move its British users’ accounts out of the control of European Union privacy regulators, placing them under U.S. jurisdiction instead, sources said.

    the United States has among the weakest privacy protections of any major economy, with no broad law despite years of advocacy by consumer protection groups.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-privacy-eu-exclusive-idUSKBN20D2M3

    In coming months, other U.S. tech companies will have to make similar choices, according to people involved in internal discussions elsewhere.

    binners
    Full Member

    The ERG are now, more than ever, what they’ve always been… useful idiots

    Their motivation is a rose-tinted, flag-waving nostalgia. A return to empire. They handy for Cummings and co to have along as fellow travellers to motivate the bitter old racists to get out and vote for this.

    But this project isn’t about a return to the past. Far from it. This is about tearing up the past. A neoliberal Year Zero where the economic and social orthodoxy that has prevailed since the second world war is finally dispensed with. Yesterdays policy announcement confirmed that the freedom of movement that we have all just always accepted is over! Thats now history! Think about it… thats a huge thing. You’ve just had a massive chunk of your rights taken away.

    Expect many more announcements like that. You’ll soon be exempt from European human rights legislation. After that, this lot will be left to decide what Workers rights and Environmental standards you will or won’t be subject too. Among many other things. Dominic Cummings will be deciding that for you. Think that’s going to end well?

    StuE
    Free Member

    Unless they intend to force students,people who are unable to work because of ill health and those who have taken early retirement into work then there isn’t anything like 8 million people available to work.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51560120

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Google is planning to move its British users’ accounts out of the control of European Union privacy regulators, placing them under U.S. jurisdiction instead, sources said.

    In case anyone isn’t reading the article – they are saying that UK users data will still follow UK data protection rules which currently are the same as GDPR. The move is to allow them to change the data protection rules should the UK rules change in the future. If the UK rules changed but the data was held in Ireland as it currently is, there could be conflicts.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    New trade barriers + end of FoM =

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Who cares what it means… saying it raises the blood…

    frankconway
    Full Member

    And in other news, johnson may be re-setting his relationship with business leaders.
    Will any of them remind him of his ‘f… business’ comment? Someone should.
    If it happens, will be start of the re-education process; repeat after me….brexit is good.
    https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-poised-to-axe-network-of-business-councils-11938560

    binners
    Full Member

    We can’t have people around telling us stuff we don’t want to hear… like ‘facts’

    If they’re not prepared to wave their little flags and shout about Brexit being absolutely bloody brilliant, then there’s no place for them here

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Dominic Cummings, special adviser to PM Johnson, is known to be angry over the reaction of business groups to the Brexit vote

    FFS

    molgrips
    Free Member

    How dare they not agree with Cummings!

    That blokes time is limited I reckon.

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