Dougie dogg – not at all. the EU have strongly defended it. The GFA says nothing about NI / Uk borders only about NI / republic

Its not so much the border though, its that the people of N.I are being unduly affected by it and are having their standard of life/rights as UK citizens diminished by it. That goes against the GFA, and is caused by the irish sea border / inclusion of N.I in the CU. This was agreed to as much by the EU as it was the UK.

Ergo, neither side are actually respecting the GFA.

I see Brandon Lewis has been making a fine job of extolling the virtues of Brexit 😂

He said the protocol offered Northern Ireland – as part of the UK – “a unique competitive advantage” not seen around the world.

“In the sense of Northern Ireland has the ability to trade in and as part of the UK as well as through the single market with the EU.

There is no Brexit arrangement that can ensure the same level of all Island of Ireland cooperation and all UK cooperation. We are putting in new borders and divisions. With Britain not in the Customs Union and Single Market, this was always going to be the case. Any fudge will have some of the new divisions in the Irish sea, and some on the island itself… but it can’t do away with them entirely… we are dividing Great Britain from the EU… we are… the deficits of any fudge is down to our desire to divide ourselves from everyone else. NI isn’t coming entirely with us on that journey… even Johnson and Gove have realised that, with the arrangements that they negotiated and signed up to… despite claiming otherwise so many times.

As my company produces goods within the Single market in N.Ireland we can lorry freight through Rosslare if we choose. Airfreight from Belfast/Dublin. Also we can enjoy tarriff free access to the UK market as we produce basic pharma products (1994 WTO agreement places zero tariffs on around 7000 products, raw materials and excipients).

Thats how I understand it.

Dougiedogg – thats sheer nonsense. The EU are respecting the GFA by ensuing no hard border on the island of ireland and in doing so they have bent their rules badly

Dougiedogg – thats sheer nonsense.

Sorry TJ its not, thats why the likes of Paisley and Sammy Wilson were so angry in parliament. The GFA is not just about the rights of irish to be irish.

It’s a fudge on both sides… but, importantly… the EU did not boot us out of the Single Market and Customs Union… we have made those fudges necessary… it is our doing.

There is no Brexit arrangement that can ensure the same level of all Island of Ireland cooperation and all UK cooperation. We are putting in new borders and divisions. With Britain not in the Customs Union and Single Market, this was always going to be the case. Any fudge will have some of the new divisions in the Irish sea, and some on the island itself… but it can’t do away with them entirely… we are dividing Great Britain from the EU… we are… the deficits of any fudge is down to our desire to divide ourselves from everyone else. NI isn’t coming entirely with us on that journey… even Johnson and Gove have realised that, with the arrangements that they negotiated and signed up to… despite claiming otherwise so many times.

I agree, but to say that the EU are not in some way ignoring certain terms of the GFA in order to make it work is wrong. N.I is caught between the interests of both.

I agree, but to say that the EU are not in some way ignoring certain terms of the GFA in order to make it work is wrong. N.I is caught between the interests of both.

Are you saying that you want a hard border with the EU irrelevant of the damage to NI?

Are you saying that you want a hard border with the EU irrelevant of the damage to NI?

No.

This line of discussion started with me replying to a post about Biden. Please read what I’ve said it in that context.

So you’d vote based on what they promised in a campaign, rather than based on how they govern once they are in office? To be fair, millions do exactly this

No, it would be a combination of their stated aims and how they had done in the previous term.

If, in 4 years time, I’m doing ok by government policy I would consider voting for them over a party who wanted to tax me to benefit others.

Don’t know if it was talked about before but Radio 4s statistics program More or Less talked about fishing quota claims by Gove and Penny Mordaunt. Starts about 22 mins.

This line of discussion started with me replying to a post about Biden. Please read what I’ve said it in that context.

It might have done, but now I’ve no idea what you think is best for Northern Ireland – which option is it; current solution or hard border?

dazh – have you thought about offering your ‘…northumbrian post-industrial shithole ride’ route to Saddle Skedaddle?
They could offer it as an optional extension to their C2C when riders get to Tynemouth or a ‘reality check’ diversion on their Coast & Castles route; Coast, Castles and Shitholes – could become their new best seller!

This line of discussion started with me replying to a post about Biden. Please read what I’ve said it in that context

Dougie, that was my post about a UK-US trade deal and I was referring specifically to johnson have no credibility in Biden’s eyes; one example I quoted to support that was johnson’s willingness to tear up the GFA for political gain.
There was no reference to the EU’s attitude to the GFA; introducing that is something of a sideshow to considerations about the possibility of a US-UK trade deal.

Dougiedogg

Please let us know which bit of the GFA do you think the EU is in breach of. specifically.

I would consider voting for them over a party who wanted to tax me to benefit others

What if they wanted to tax you to benefit you and your family?

What if they wanted to tax you to benefit you and your family?

Then I would consider it.

dangerousbeans

If, in 4 years time, I’m doing ok by government policy I would consider voting for them over a party who wanted to tax me to benefit others.

Wow, you live in a different reality to me. I’m not having a go at you mate, my reality might be the “wrong” one… But I can say right now I won’t be voting Tory 4 years hence.

The handling of the pandemic, Brexit, cronyism (fraud!).

No thank you!

As for individuals being taxed to help society as a whole I see that a a positive, no, an absolute necessity in a caring society that values people and organisations such as the NHS.

I couldn’t give a fig about aircraft carriers or nukes. Give me a caring society perpetuated by government policy instead.

Blessed are the cheesemakers…

It is with great sadness we must stop sending our cheese to the EU. Due to an oversight in the Free Trade deal it is impossible for us to send cheese to our EU online consumers. DEFRA has told us not to expect an exemption or change anytime soon. Investment & hope is lost today😪 pic.twitter.com/iBG1nkJ71r

— Cheshire Cheese Co (@1CheshireCheese) January 22, 2021

“I regret voting leave” the owner of one of Devon’s largest fish exporters said he was brainwashed by brexiteers, now his business is facing ruin because of Brexit pic.twitter.com/BDOMpe1K0s

— Byline TV (@BylineTV) January 21, 2021

If, in 4 years time, I’m doing ok by government policy I would consider voting for them over a party who wanted to tax me to benefit others.

Whereas I will vote for a party that believes in the betterment of all and would happily pay more tax to do so. Not least from enlightened self interest. a more equal society is happier and has less crime.

Plus I loathe seeing the deliberate poverty inflicted on people by tories

As previously stated I always believed in redistribution of wealth via taxation for the betterment of society.

But Brexit and the people who voted for it have highlighted that I’m an idiot who they’ll gladly take for a ride just out of spite.

I have to ask myself do I really want to impoverish myself to any extent on their behalf.

Many of us that are from the 9 counties of NI have been SCREAMING since the beginning of this brexit nonsense that the GFA was incompatible with brexit. We’ve been consistently ignored or dismissed. Its not even a sectarian issue either. Nationalists wont care for a land border, Unionists wont care for a sea border. Everyone loses.

Everyone loses.

We’ve binned a whole series of compromises, on the promise that we can replace them with something that benefits some people more. But, as the something was never defined, many people were successfully led to believe that the some people included them. Most, the vast majority, will be severely disappointed when they get to properly see what the replacement means for them. Nearly, but not quite everyone.

dakuan – I think you are right. The GFA was envisaged within the EU arrangements, the UK being one of the foremost and leading members of the EU at the time. No one contemplated the UK being stupid enough to throw away all the advantages they had, but they did.
Brexit trashed the GFA. The EU are merely trying to stick back together that neutral ground – a bit like when you get the superglue out and try to stick that priceless porcelain back together. Maybe, you liked it, maybe you didn’t, but the cracks are going to show either way.

On top of that, it was clear the whole time that the border would fall down the sea as the Americans weren’t going to have the land border and neither the Brits or the Irish/EU were going to have Antrim restarting the family business (smuggling). The DUP’s stupidity over making that happen was incredible but what can you expect from young earth creationists.

That stupidly was mirrored by the ignorance of my English family who didn’t even realise that there even was a land border with the EU. By a curious turn of fate, those people are also young earth creationists.

Blessed are the cheesemakers…

To paraphrase..

“It’s as if someone forgot to negotiate this part of the deal, they forgot that there needed to be an exemption or allowance for the direct consumer sales.”

Just read that article, they were looking to expand their business and planned to invest up to £1m which would have meant employing a further 20 people. Now they are considering opening a distribution centre in France instead.

Another link on the page sends you to this linky

Almost like the government don’t give a s…

Blessed are the cheesemakers…

This may be controversial but brexit is working out quite nicely for we vegans. Fishermen, livestock farmers, and now the cheese makers all negatively impacted. I’m beginning to think it’s all an elaborate masterplan by Carrie Symonds 🙂

On Erasmus – it looks like there are efforts going on to try to get Scotland access again. dunno how realistic but its being looked at. 140 MEPs pushing for it

People who go to uni getting a chance to be part of Europe? That’ll annoy some of the who do you think you are learning to spell types dazh and oldmanmtb were describing.

Interesting TJ. Getting Scottish students access to Erasmus is achievable, given the funds… (see NI students having access paid for by the Irish government)… what will be interesting is reciprocation… is there a way that Scotland’s gov can achieve that for students from abroad looking to spend time in Scotland? I don’t think there is. I’d love to be wrong.

Academic visas used to be pretty straightforward I thought. Look at the number of non-EU students in UK universities.

Yes, but the UK gov controls those, not the Scottish gov.

They will never know IGM… not unless me Auntie Sandra posts it on her facebook page.

If NI gets it self sorted it could create something special. However it will take a Good Friday Agreement level of effort,compromise and commitment to build it.

dangerousbeans

If, in 4 years time, I’m doing ok by government policy I would consider voting for them over a party who wanted to tax me to benefit others.

This may not be germane to this discussion, but did anyone find themselves genuinely worse off the last time Labour were in government? I think I am poorer now than I was in, say, 2005, and I certainly seem to be giving more to charity to cover things like local food poverty.
I am still comfortable however, I feel that with a fairer tax system (and easier access to a major export market on our doorstep) I and many others will be more prosperous, and the nation will have more opportunities for people to grow richer.

Due to the new regulations (and the lack of planning) my OHs essential medical equipment (via NHS but from Germany) is now held at customs because it contains hazardous goods…a bottle of alcohol gel is in the box. There is no system in place to manage this.

Completely foreseeable, and puts her at risk. Thanks BoJo, you lying moron.

igm
Full Member

Academic visas used to be pretty straightforward I thought. Look at the number of non-EU students in UK universities.

Theresa May’s time as home secretary let to constant worsening of this- much of it obviously just designed as obstruction and to increase costs without any benefit. Financial guarantees and proof of financial means were made not only harder but also more confusing and more likely to be rejected on technicalities (we had one student rejected because she’d moved money from her own savings account, to her own current account, and was told “it had to be in your account for 30 days”). The number of english language qualifications accepted was slashed (using the false excuse of reducing fraud) which meant that our Brazilian students were having to travel from all over the country to sao paulo, with waiting lists months long, as it was literally the only testing centre they could use. The ATAS scheme’s support staff were cut which directly meant that certificates regularly took too long to be processed causing students to miss key dates. Every cost increased, of course, and every turnaround time increased, and yet deadlines got tighter (there were some processes which by design made it commonplace that a student applying on the very first day possible, doing everything as fast as possible, would not get their visa in place by the date it was required). No allowance or measures were ever put in place for the slightly earlier starts of term in Scotland. And the idea of “leave to return” was rolled out widely- this meant that if you were already in the UK on one type of visa, even a student visitor visa, you would often have to return to your home country to get a new student visa, purely to add costs and inconvenience. Oh you’re from Syria and your country no longer has a government and your town is a warzone? Too bad, go home to apply for your visa.

And the tier 4 rules changed so regularly and so confusingly that even the UKVI had no idea what their own rules were from day to day (we had a personal contact at the UKVI, a service we had to pay for, and after one change our guy phoned up and said “this new rule is unclear, we think it should be interpreted this way, is that correct”? She said, “That seems reasonable”. He said “Is it correct?” She said yeah, could well be, I can’t fault your logic” He said “So if we go forward on this basis, and the home office decides to enforce another interpretation, will that be OK” “Oh, no, you’ll be fined and your highly trusted sponsor status will be at risk”. So we literally rejected students who we could probably have accepted, because the UK government refused to tell us what their own rules meant, but told us we would be punished for if we broke them.

Just seen that a Brexity former colleague of mine that I unfriended due to her borderline racist posting has got her settled status sorted out.

Even by Brexit standards, that’s messing my head up.