There is a conceptual problem, there is also the cold hard fact that some supply lines will not work. That this has come as a surprise is my point.

At what point does the public start to get properly mad?

Overly honest moment of the day: Defra minister Victoria Prentis admitted she was too busy “organising the local nativity trail” to read the fisheries agreement in the Brexit deal when it was published on Christmas Eve

Didn’t she read it before voting for it?

Had an answer from Trek, increases are Brexit and logistics.

A big eye opener is flying into almera, Spain, there are miles and miles of poly tunnels for fruit and veg.

In england, I hope you like turinps an cocckles. also quite nice food if cooked right.

increases are Brexit and logistics

Er… fancy that.

Had an answer from Trek, increases are Brexit and logistics.

But fear not, I’ve heard Brexiteers will be more than happy to cover the difference for everyone else.

Silly question why do the trucks have to make the complete journey with the same driver and cab unit?

Cheapest way to do it. One company takes responsibility for the load and only one set of costs, with the appropriate profit margin, and no storage issues. As soon as you introduce a switch of load then you get problems with it going missing, the onward driver/truck not getting there etc. The key to logistics is simplicity and having the minimum amount of stages the product has to go through. All of this is before you have to deal with split loads, time-critical delivery slots and loads that have to be kept in specific conditions.

All this mess that’s unfurling even with low levels of movement (quiet time of year, lots of businesses shut, previous stockpiling) we’re having difficulties now, what the mess is going to be like in a month or two when demand ramps up is anyone’s guess.

That this has come as a surprise is my point.

It hasn’t come as a surprise. The detailed requirements came with inadequate notice to implement, test and resource systems. Had the PM done his deal Sept or Oct the issues would have been minor on day 1, just as they will be in a month or two from now. Except the losses run up by many in the interim will be significant.

It should matter to you – the compensation paid by government will be added to the national debt we’ll all end up paying for.

It should matter to you – the compensation paid by government will be added to the national debt we’ll all end up paying for.

It’s not even that. Businesses will have to employ more people to handle the extra red tape, just to do the same amount of business and achieve the same turnover. We will overall as a nation be less efficient, permanently.

We will overall as a nation be less efficient, permanently.

In the European market. Brexit is about looking outward to the world. Europe will become progressively less relevant.

Do you have news for us? Are we joining another customs area? No country or trading block is going to be able to offer us the friction free trade we had in the Single Market and Customs union we shared with the rest of Europe. We might get lower or fewer tariffs with a few big players, but that still means at least the same cost and hassle as we now have with the EEA. Others simply can not offer our businesses (and our population) what we had as EU members.

In the European market. Brexit is about looking outward to the world. Europe will become progressively less relevant.

The UK is in Europe…, so you’re correct for at least one country.

And prey tell us which countries you think we ought to be trading with now – be careful though, as I reckon that for every country you list one of us on this post will have worked there, and for a British company.

How will having no trade deal or the same as the EU allow us to trade more

Explain please

Brexit is about looking outward to the world. Europe will become progressively less relevant

Brexit seems to be this idea that EU will decline so we’re better off out of it. It won’t. Rest of world will grow faster so EU will become a smaller part of the world, but it will still grow, be close and be wealthy. We didn’t need to lose the EU business to go get the rest of the world.

molgrips
Full Member
It should matter to you – the compensation paid by government will be added to the national debt we’ll all end up paying for.

It’s not even that. Businesses will have to employ more people to handle the extra red tape, just to do the same amount of business and achieve the same turnover. We will overall as a nation be less efficient, permanently.

I keep thinking back to the announcement that we will need 50,000 new border staff to deal with Brexit.

I have no idea what the average wage of those 50K workers will be to the country, but it would not surprise me if it was £50K (if you assume perhaps an average wage of say £35K, then the employer has to match NI and probably some pension contributions and HR staff and infrastructure, offices etc) – actually 50K may be quite conservative….. But if we go with 50,000 workers at £50,000 cost then we are looking at £2.5 billion per year just to provide the new border staff for leaving the EU.

And prey tell us which countries you think we ought to be trading with now – be careful though, as I reckon that for every country you list one of us on this post will have worked there, and for a British company.

Or sold there perfectly happily from a UK in the EU. North America, Middle East, Far East. Russia before sanctions. Nowhere we want to go that we couldn’t.

Brexit is about looking outward to the world.

That is the direct opposite of the truth.

I keep thinking back to the announcement that we will need 50,000 new border staff to deal with Brexit.

It isn’t just them. There’s all the people involved in the process before it gets to the border too. HMRC estimated £20Bn costs in 2018. Government admitted at least £7Bn in July 2020. No-one is yet sure.

oldbloke
Free Member

Nowhere we want to go that we couldn’t.

That apparently needs saying more often- the number of people who seem to think that we can now get ahead by trading with places that before we couldn’t is crazy. Even if you learned everything you know about world trade from a facebook post that’s just so obviously irrational. Who is there out there that we’re suddenly going to strike a new trade deal that we couldn’t before- the merfolk?

5thElefant
Brexit is about looking outward to the world. Europe will become progressively less relevant.

We can look of course, but unfortunately the nature of trade is that people tend to trade with other people reasonably close by for most stuff. It’s just one of those things that happens. True for individuals, true for countries, but not exclusively true for specialist stuff.

Of course with fresh seafood, probably always true, full stop end of story.

What customs unions and single markets do is effectively make countries closer together in terms of elapsed transportation time, mutual recognition of standards etc.

Pity we chose not to do that.

The John Curtice link earlier today made interesting reading by the way. A lot of folk thinking we got it wrong leaving – bouncing around the 50% mark suggesting we should rejoin (which is gobsmackingly high considering)

5thElefant<div>

Brexit is about looking outward to the world. Europe will become progressively less relevant

So, we have confiscated all the food in your kitchen, but the good news is you’re now free to eat anything in your garden.

..not that you couldn’t have previously, of course, but now your kitchen cupboards will become less relevant. Just think of the opportunities you now have for growing vegetables. (P.S. You’ll starve if you don’t.)

I’ve no idea where this notion that the UK was ignoring the rest of the world because we were members of the EU has come from. My employer exports worldwide (USA, Asia, Europe). All that has happened is that exporting to the EU has become more expensive and a bigger administrative burden. That *really* helps – thanks Brexiters.

Any firm worth its salt is already exporting to wherever they can – life is hard!

5fthElefant In the European market. Brexit is about looking outward to the world. Europe will become progressively less relevant.

I only went as far as 5th year higher economics but even I can see that Brexit is a “hanging upside down bat shit crazy” moment for our country.

And so it goers on. Honda shut down production in the UK for 4 days and all seafood exports from small outfits from scotland stopped for 4 days – both to sort out logistics issues.

Its a shame THM is no longer here. I’d love to hear his musings on this.

Brexit is about looking outward to the world.

Absolutely right. Given enough time and bending over and grabbing ankles, will be able to do nearly as much trade with countries such as India, as Germany currently does.

Ref: Theresa goes to India

Honda shutting down next week is due to a shortage of semiconductors rather than Brexit. It’s an issue impacting all vehicle manufacturers at the moment.

It’s both.

Chip supply is a very real problem, worldwide. Swindon has other supply chain issues as well right now (who doesn’t in the UK this winter).

I’ve no idea where this notion that the UK was ignoring the rest of the world because we were members of the EU has come from. My employer exports worldwide (USA, Asia, Europe). All that has happened is that exporting to the EU has become more expensive and a bigger administrative burden. That *really* helps – thanks Brexiters.

Its a deliberate lie. Used frequently throughout the referendum campaign, as far as I can tell because it’s an easy sound bit for people to repeat.

Its a deliberate lie. Used frequently throughout the referendum campaign, as far as I can tell because it’s an easy sound bit for people to repeat.

I know.

Which is why I query with anyone repeating it (such as 5thElephant) – and he’s done exactly the same as everyone I ask, ignore the question.

Its a shame THM is no longer here. I’d love to hear his musings on this.

Really not worth it IMO.

Edit: TBF he did raise some vaid points but the amount of crap you had to get through to get to them was colossal.

Del – surely it would have been good for a laugh?

Not sure there’s enough time in the world tj! 😀

I just can’t believe there is anyone who still believes in Brexit or its supposed benefits. It has been an unmitigated failure.

When even it’s most ardent cheerleaders can’t come up with any positives except the nebulous concept of ‘sovereignty’….

But if we go with 50,000 workers at £50,000 cost then we are looking at £2.5 billion per year just to provide the new border staff for leaving the EU.

Yes, investment that provides no economic benefit. This is why the EU reduces trade barriers (and trade deals all over the world reduce trade barriers) – because the required red tape is pointless.

Brexit is about looking outward to the world. Europe will become progressively less relevant.

So you’re assuming that we can do trade deals with distant countries that will reduce trade overheads by more than the extra overheads caused by Brexit. What is your basis for this calculation? Are you suggesting that the integration with say, China or India will be as tight as that with the EU?

Why would Britain be able to get a better trade deal with India than the EU would? The EU has much greater bargaining power, does it not?

We want to wish a huge thank you to our suppliers, hauliers and own teams who, despite the current challenges, have managed to keep our shelves stocked with full product availability for our customers! pic.twitter.com/fmyPxZcViZ

— Lidl NorthernIreland (@lidl_ni) January 14, 2021

Great news. Some of those shelves look to be pretty low on choice though.

Some of those shelves look to be pretty low on choice though.

Mate, it’s Lidl.

The idea that we should be celebrating part of the UK being able to get food from other parts of the UK as some sort of challenge completed is, frankly, offensive.

Disclaimer – born and brought up in NI. Family still there thoroughly unimpressed right now.

Mate, it’s Lidl.

Sorry, I’m an Aldi shopper.

We can look of course, but unfortunately the nature of trade is that people tend to trade with other people reasonably close by for most stuff.

Not sure how my house ended up crammed with chinese and japanese stuff then.
Food will certainly be cheaper from outside the EU, same as everything else.