Brailsford says Cav can leave

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  • Brailsford says Cav can leave
  • dirtyrider
    Member

    full story on the BBC

    where would he go?

    here

    Premier Icon flap_jack
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    Green Edge.

    From one aussie owned team to another.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    why wait for the contract to end?

    http://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/blog/proud-of-british-cycling

    build a team around Cav

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
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    I dunno, would he leave? He joined knowing that he wouldn’t be getting a lead out train like he had at highroad, I guess the question is whether he want’s one of if he’s happy being on a winning team and winning one day events rather than tours, I’m sure Sky would support him in the classics and he’d still be around like he has been in the TDF winning stages as and when it suits the teams goals.

    One day classics or green jerseys……………

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
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    Haha, now that would be cool, Sky Vs Virgin, now if Freeview could buy out Froome for an attempt at the Polkadot it could be totally epic!

    mboy
    Member

    I think if he’s sensible, he’s got more to gain long term by hanging around at Sky than he has by leaving. OK he won’t have the full lead out train that he had at HTC, or might get going elsewhere, but what he has got is the support of the very best cyclists in the world when he needs it most (such as on the Champs Elysee, the Olympics, the World Champs) as well as the best support and coaching crew in the world.

    Cav is clearly more of an all round athlete right now than he was. OK he’s not about to win the polka dot jersey much less the yellow jersey in the TdF next year, but he’s markedly better as an all round rider than he was, and seemingly not to the detriment of his sprinting ability.

    If he goes elsewhere, he’ll have a mediocre to good team built around his every need, and no doubt he’ll win a number of one dayers and TdF stages. If he sticks with Team Sky, he’ll be pushed every step of the way, he’ll have to really work hard to earn his keep, and it won’t be easy at all. But the only way to get better is to surround yourself with people better than you! And he will know that when it matters, he has got the 2 best GC riders (and probably 2 best TT riders right now) there to reel in any gap for him and slingshot him to where he needs to be. Sagan, Greipel and Goss all knew there was no way they’d keep Cavendish at bay today, simply cos not only is Cav faster than them in a straight fight, but the dice were loaded so to speak, by the fact he was going to have Wiggins, Froome and Boasson Hagen leading him out down the Champs Elysee.

    He’s 27, he’s got a number of years of top flight competition left in him. If he’s got sense he’ll see out his 3 year contract with Sky and learn one hell of a lot from the best guys in the business!

    IMO of course… 😉

    He’s just not been used to playing second fiddle and he knows that Sky’s main priority is going to be GC and he has definitely looked a bit sheepish in interviews but I think he will give it another year.

    mboy
    Member

    Don’t forget also guys, that Peter Sagan won the Green Jersey with very little support, and on his first TdF. The rest of Sagan’s team were of course preoccupied looking after Nibali, their GC contender too.

    If Cav wants to win the Green Jersey again, not just a number of sprint finishes, he needs to up his game overall as other than the fact Sagan isn’t as fast in an outright sprint, Sagan totally dominated the whole points race and a lot of it was due to being a stronger allround rider.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
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    If Cav wants to win the Green Jersey again, not just a number of sprint finishes, he needs to up his game overall as other than the fact Sagan isn’t as fast in an outright sprint, Sagan totally dominated the whole points race and a lot of it was due to being a stronger allround rider.

    True, but still hopeless for Cav at Sky, they’re after GC positions so won’t reel in a breakaway until the last few km, if he wanted green he’d need to be on a team that was prepared to reel in breakaways before every intermediate.

    If they brought back the red jersey maybe the 2 goals would be less mutually exclusive.

    And reading between the lines of the BBC article, is Brailsford saying he’s no use for Sky? He’s been a domestique on a team leaders salary, and there must be better climbing domestiques in the BC ranks.

    And don’t forget he’ll have the same leadout train regardless at the olympics and WC as that’s BC not sky. The only difference is the leadout train might not have trained for it, especially if Wiggins/Froome become even better climbers.

    I think Sky might struggle all round (in a good way for BC), with Wiggo, Froome and Cav on a team, that’s 3 potential jersey winners who must be worth a lot of £££ to any team, keeping them all happy both in financial terms might be easy with a big sponsor but sporting terms might be difficult with Wigg and Froome both being potentially GC capable, and Cav not getting the support he needs.

    Junkyard
    Member

    he’ll be pushed every step of the way, he’ll have to really work hard to earn his keep, and it won’t be easy at all. But the only way to get better is to surround yourself with people better than you!

    No one is better than Cav at the final sprint though and I doubt any training plan will alter the 27 year old in to some sort of all rounder.
    He can no more compete with Sagan on hilly routes or sprints than Sagan/anyone can compete with him on flat.
    The TdF know this and altered the stages to reflect this as he will win, pretty much, every group sprint on a flattish stage. They may have to change again after Sagan.

    I dont think his career will be enhanced at Sky and I dont see how he fits into the Sky GC plan tbh beyond the Olympics

    jota180
    Member

    And reading between the lines of the BBC article, is Brailsford saying he’s no use for Sky? He’s been a domestique on a team leaders salary, and there must be better climbing domestiques in the BC ranks.

    I don’t think so, I reckon a lot, if not all teams would carry someone like Cav all the way to Paris if needed.
    The massive media coverage for the Champs-Élysées winner and sponsors is going to be worth more than the salary on it’s own.
    Even without Sky being focussed on delivering him to the line for the most part of the race, they were still prepared to do it where it made sense and at the same time delivering prime-time sponsor exposure.
    The photo of the stage winner celebrating his win is usually the dominate one in the media.
    So I reckon Sky would happily pay him to stay.

    He – of course – may think otherwise

    Premier Icon smogmonster
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    Cavs earning a fortune at Sky..would he make the same dough elsewhere? Sky get absolutely loads of coverage from him…he is (at least was…) the most famous cyclist in the UK, and he still got 3 stage wins. Hardly a failure of a Tour for him. He can still win without a leadout train, as hes shown, and he gets to ride for the biggest, potentially most successfull team in cycling..and its a British team, which must be a drew for him. I dont think he’ll go in a hurry, unless some truly mental offer comes along. Or he gets the boot…which aint gonna happen.

    Tom B
    Member

    I’d like to see him at Omega Pharma Quick Step-great team with good DS’s but no real sprinters (yes they’ve got Boonen, but is he really going to figure in a bunch sprint at the TdF anymore?). They dont really have a GC contender to look after either.

    Premier Icon mrhoppy
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    Can’t see him going unless he’s pushed. He was in 2 crashes on the limited sprint stages available which wiped out his green jersey ambitions within a few days. In both crashes the peloton were together and he had an Eisel/EBH lead out with him which is pretty damn good. Had he converted one of those then I think Sky might have ridden a little differently but when Cav was out of green jersey contention why bother. Kind of similar to the Froome position, he lost a load of time in the 1st couple of stages, if he’d not then Sky might have thought it was worthwhile to let him ride but when he’d lost time it’s not so his job became to support Brad fully.

    jonba
    Member

    Cavs earning a fortune at Sky..would he make the same dough elsewhere?

    I doubt money is his main motivation, I think he is motivated by the wins. Besides he is choosing between earning “loads o’ money!” or “loads and loads o’ money!”

    I think he’ll stay for the facilities, staff and team. The setup at sky is the best in the world, the staff are some of the best and he is working with firends who he came through the ranks with – important stuff.

    Isn’t this a case of DB’s comments being taken ever-so-slightly out of context?

    Isn’t this a case of DB’s comments being taken ever-so-slightly out of context?

    That was the way I read it – I assumed it was a response to a specific question, which was then omitted to give the impression that he’d offered the opinion unsolicited. Mischief making reporting IMO

    Premier Icon andytherocketeer
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    Sounds like BBC making a story up based on comments being taken out of context.

    The 3 big tours aren’t the only thing in Pro cycling. Plenty of 1 day events on the pro calendar which surely favour the sprinters and 6 day events, one of which Cav recently won.

    Burchy1
    Member

    Sounds like BBC making a story up based on comments being taken out of context.

    +1

    Cavendish would have certainly known what the score was going to be with Sky at the start of the year. With Brailsford there it was also the only pro team who were ever going to let him state his main goal for the year was a race in which he wouldn’t even be wearing the sponsors kit. I think he’s still playing the game on his terms and will move for next year if he thinks it will benefit him getting wins in the events he wants to target.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
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    The photo of the stage winner celebrating his win is usually the dominate one in the media.
    So I reckon Sky would happily pay him to stay.

    Yes, but assuming his potential sallary is linked to his potential success, then if he was on a team that could deliver him to the line twice as often, then he’d have twice the success, and potentialy earn twice as much?

    I reckon he’s going to have to re-train as a 1 day/classics specialist if he want’s sucess at Sky, either that or accept that TDF’s will be like this one with him taking victories only on stages that suit them rather than him. Especialy as next year is going to be hilly. That’s not to say Sky won’t keep him if he choses just to win ~3 TDF stages a year and act as super-domestique the rest of the time, but if he want’s win’s they’re going to be elswhere either another event or another team.

    atlaz
    Member

    Personally I have a feeling that Cav will start to look towards the end of his Grand Tour sprinting career soon anyway and may well convert to a one-day specialist in time. Whether that’s after he hits 30 or not is up for discussion.

    It’s interesting that Prudhomme thinks that Sagan could actually be a GC contender in a few years if he wants to be. We know he can climb now, question is whether he can keep that pace for days on end.

    cav was one of the last to join sky, they knew exactly what they were getting and how handsomely they were going to pay for it, and he knew what he was signing up to.

    BBC taking quotes out of context to make a story, surely not?…

    http://road.cc/content/news/49870-bradley-wiggins-centre-row-over-david-millar-olympic-ban-comments

    atlaz
    Member

    One of the former HTC team managers says Cav seems unhappy. Apparently Cav would have seen the Tour as a good payback for Wiggins for the World Champs and Olympics but 2 more years of playing second fiddle to GC hopes would apparently not be his thing. That said, the bloke who gave the interview is at Omega Pharma-Quick Step so perhaps there’s a bit of him trying to get Cav over to them.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    Cav needs a HTC mark2, no GC intentions, dedicated to stage wins for him and options for breakaway’s/ classics (except MSR) for the rest of the team. Do the three grand tours every year until his speed starts to go. At 27 he is reducing the number of career wins he will get if he stays at SKY, he needs to be racing to win now not in 3 years time.

    I think if he’s sensible, he’s got more to gain long term by hanging around at Sky than he has by leaving. OK he won’t have the full lead out train that he had at HTC, or might get going elsewhere, but what he has got is the support of the very best cyclists in the world when he needs it most (such as on the Champs Elysee, the Olympics, the World Champs) as well as the best support and coaching crew in the world.

    I presume the HTC team must have been second rate then, Zabel as your personal sprint coach, nah he’s second rate

    Cav is clearly more of an all round athlete right now than he was. OK he’s not about to win the polka dot jersey much less the yellow jersey in the TdF next year, but he’s markedly better as an all round rider than he was, and seemingly not to the detriment of his sprinting ability.

    markedly better? a bit like when he won MSR with HTC, how did he do this year?

    If he goes elsewhere, he’ll have a mediocre to good team built around his every need, and no doubt he’ll win a number of one dayers and TdF stages.

    sounds good, he’s not a GC rider

    If he sticks with Team Sky,

    he’ll win less

    he has got the 2 best GC riders (and probably 2 best TT riders right now) there to reel in any gap for him and slingshot him to where he needs to be.

    GC riders will not work for him if the GC is at stake/ up for grabs

    He’s 27, he’s got a number of years of top flight competition left in him.

    he will not get any faster after he is 30, he needs to win now whilst it is easy

    If he’s got sense he’ll see out leave his 3 year contract with Sky

    FIFY 😀

    Klunk
    Member

    I don’t see it really, there were 6 contested sprints this tdf that cav could have won. He won 3, 1 crash, 1 misjudgement and a failure to get to the front of the peleton at a critical point in the race. The last one I guess HTC would have helped but other 2 have happened when he’s ridden with the HTC train. So 5 wins this tdf was an entirely possible outcome for Cav. Remind me how many wins did Cav need to get the green jersey last year ?

    mcboo
    Member

    I think a lot of this comes down to the personal stuff. Appearances can be deceptive but Sky seems like a pretty happy ship. He’s 27, World Champion, wins stages every year, has won green. What is there left to do as a pure sprinter than just keep racking up stage wins. Maybe he can go somewhere else, to a team built around him but whats the point of that? He’s with a bunch of guys and a sponsor that love him and pay him handsomely. I mean, he just won 3 stages in the Tour including another victory in Paris. If that isnt success I dont know what is.

    I dont know enough about the development of a sprinter as a generalist cyclist but if he was going to re-focus as a one day specialist where else is better than Sky?

    I can’t tell you how much I bloody love these guys. Bunch of working class lads come good, no ego, no arrogance, no stupid flash cars. Just dedication and talent and bucket-loads of bleak, dark humour.

    Premier Icon bikebouy
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    I’d say he’d only go to a team dedicated to his Stage Win ethos, a team that needs a bigger profile than they have already, a team that has few, if any, results recently.. and a team that has large backers with very deep pockets..

    Theres two:

    Astana (Vino’s leaving to become a DS and they have mahooosive backing and poor or low profile)

    Katusha (who have few GC contenders and few sprinters of decent young quality and have mahooosive backing and a very poor profile)

    Both would be a perfect fit, thay could have One GC bod and one Stage Winner bod.. The remaining team could look after both elements throughout the races more than well enough.

    But I think he’ll stay.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    I can’t tell you how much I bloody love these guys. Bunch of working class lads come good, no ego, no arrogance, no stupid flash cars. Just dedication and talent and bucket-loads of bleak, dark humour

    you really don’t follow road cycling do you 😉

    He’s with a bunch of guys and a sponsor that love him and pay him handsomely

    if he stops winning he’ll get dropped and the love will fade away

    mauja
    Member

    I think he’ll got to Omega Quickstep, he’d have a team to support him in the sprints and he’s said in the past he’d be keen to work with Specialized again.

    Specialized seem equally keen to have him back on their bikes based on how much they were rumoured to be offering Sky to switch from Pinarello which probably means there’s the cash to make it happen if Specialized are involved.

    Seems a strange time for the story to come just before the Olympics so can’t believe there’s nothing behind.

    I think Brailsford has realised they don’t really need to be taking a sprinter to the Grand Tours if their focus is riding for the GC. I think the problem is if Cav stays at Sky there’s a chance he wouldn’t even be riding the TDF next year as why take a sprinter if you’re purely focussed on GC. Next years tour is likely to be much tougher to win, less time trials, more climbing and the likes of Contador and Andy Schlek to beat, if Team Sky want to win it could they really afford a space for Cav on their TDF team instead of taking someone who could more effectively support the GC riders in the mountains.

    Klunk
    Member

    my guess would be Sky would like Cav to leave so they can sign Sagan.

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