Bought a cracked frame from STW classifieds

Home Forum Chat Forum Bought a cracked frame from STW classifieds

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 129 total)
  • Bought a cracked frame from STW classifieds
  • iolo
    Member

    Personally, if I picked up the frame in person and handed over the cash I would be pissed with myself.
    It seems the seller wasn’t trying to con you.
    Move on.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I’d phone his mobile, not rely on texts.

    People are far less likely to be evasive if they’re actually talking to you.

    If he won’t talk and send the money then follow it up with a letter saying that unless you receive a refund by a certain date you’ll be forced to take things down a legal route to secure the return of your money

    iolo
    Member

    But the frame was sold as seen.
    No cash was handed over until the buyer was happy with the purchase.
    So what legal action could you take?
    EDIT: How does the seller not know if the damage was not caused by the new owner?

    mrjmt
    Member

    Not that I’m encouraging you to name and shame, but it wouldnt be the same person that posted a rather urgent wanted post for a zesty front triangle would it?!? 🙄

    Hob Nob
    Member

    As you picked it up in person, you might be facing a bit of an uphill battle.

    Classic case of buyer beware, same would apply if you bought a second hand car privately & it went pop 5 miles into the journey home. Anything you get back would be goodwill from the seller.

    Sh*tty situation, as he probably never knew, and realistically if it was under the paint, how could he.

    I think I’d look to getting it fixed and just riding it anyway.

    Premier Icon somouk
    Subscriber

    I’m with the seller here, sounds as though you collected so had chance to examine the goods and got stung a little.

    If he does anything to get the frame back and refund you then he’s doing more than he needs to.

    ti_pin_man
    Member

    sounds like an innocent enough sale as clearly neither of you could see the crack in the frame and he’s done the right thing saying he’ll refund you. I guess its a fair chunk of money so i get his spending it on a new bike. All seemed reasonable up to that point.

    but now it looks like he’s swerving a little and maybe cant afford to pay you back or maybe worse is thinking about backing away from the promise to pay you.

    I’d also suggest a phone call and a discussion and see how the land lies. you want your cash back so help him by saying if its too much to give you half this month and then half next and you’ll send the frame back when you have first payment. test if he is going to sort your cash out of run away.

    I’m not convinced there much of a repair he can do on an alu frame, he might have realised its not easy to repair and that now leaves him out of pocket.

    does anybody know the legal stance on this? Id have thought youre on thin ice.

    It’s a Zesty – it would have cracked as soon as you swung a leg over it anyway. Just be thankful it wasn’t your/a childs/a dogs face that got hurt in the process and chalk it up to experience.

    Or, is it still in warranty with the original owner – can something not be sorted down that route?

    Premier Icon lowey
    Subscriber

    Buyer beware. Sounds like it would have been nigh on impossible for the seller to even know about the crack, so I think you would be on dodgy ground going after him after you collected in person.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    Classic case of buyer beware, same would apply if you bought a second hand car privately & it went pop 5 miles into the journey home. Anything you get back would be goodwill from the seller.

    Not really. If the seller literally described the frame as not having any cracks (as the OP says), and then it turns out it has a crack, the frame has been mis-described by the seller and the buyer is perfectly entitled to his money back.

    From Martin Lewis:

    “If you’re buying second-hand goods from a private seller (someone who doesn’t sell goods for all or part of their living) your rights are nowhere near as strong as when buying from a shop.

    The only protection is that it’s correctly described and the owner has the right to sell it. Here, it really is a case of caveat emptor or ‘let the buyer beware’.

    So if the seller says nowt or little about the goods and you buy it, then that’s it. Even if it’s shoddy, you weren’t mis-sold, so have no comeback. Though if they lie to you – you do.”

    iolo
    Member

    Can we see the original add OP.
    I can’t see it on here

    EDIT Zilgo, The OP got to inspect the frame and came to the conclusion there was no cracks. Otherwisw he would have not purchased it. Thus deeming it acceptable for his use, be it riding down a mountain or hanging on s wall.

    Premier Icon somouk
    Subscriber

    The only protection is that it’s correctly described and the owner has the right to sell it. Here, it really is a case of caveat emptor or ‘let the buyer beware’.

    Would be interesting to see how this would hold unless the seller said ‘No cracks at all’ in his for sale ad.

    cynic-al
    Member

    But the frame was sold as seen.

    Not it wasn’t, it was sold with no dents or cracks.

    Seller then offered to refund.

    He’s now reneging.

    yorkshire89
    Member

    It was just that he offered a full refund thats pissed me off. I believed him at first but after all the excuses it seems he probably knew about the crack and tried to cover it up by leaving the BB in. He seemed surprised when I said I wanted to strip and powder the frame, saying there was no point and I might aswell just leave it and ride it 😕

    I said it looks irrepairable and he said he has a friend at uni that welds titanium and this would be a piece of cake for him. Maybe he has found out its not worth doing so is going back on his word.

    If it was me I would have thoroughly checked the frame over before selling, and wouldn’t be happy ripping someone off.

    Premier Icon dannybgoode
    Subscriber

    I think though that reasonableness comes in here. That is the seller has to take reasonable steps to ensure that the description is correct and that it is given in good faith.

    They visually inspected the frame and could not see any cracks. They therefore stated that there were none.

    It would be unreasonable to expect the seller to have the frame stripped or have non-destructive testing carried out to see if the frame were cracked.

    If he were asked if there were any cracks and he visually confirmed not then he cannot be expected to do more.

    Further, I think the buyer’s case would be a little stronger if the frame had been posted but they had the opportunity to examine the frame and confirm themselves that it was ‘as described’ and they too could not identify any cracks.

    This they did and concurred that it was fine and handed over the money accordingly.

    I think the buyer would have very little chance say at the small claims court.

    clubber
    Member

    Or ‘I can’t see any cracks’ or ‘I don’t think there are any cracks’.

    cbmotorsport
    Member

    Sounds like the frame was sold in good faith, with you having a great opportunity to inspect the frame before buying. If it was cracked under the paint, it’s hardly the sellers responsibility, unless he sold it as guarenteed crack free or similar.

    If it was a 2008 frame, I doubt it cost you the earth so may be a case of sucking it up and moving on.

    Premier Icon bails
    Subscriber

    I noticed a crack in the BB shell that I couldn’t see while it was still painted

    If you couldn’t see the crack while it was painted then why do you think the seller could?

    It’s not as if he can just relist it (with a ‘cracked’ warning) either, as you’ve stripped the paint off it!

    I’d be annoyed if I was in your position, but I wouldn’t assume it was a scam from the beginning, nor would I expect a refund, maybe a contribution to getting it fixed (if possible).

    cyclistm
    Member

    How does leaving a BB in hide a crack??

    Sounds like you were just unlucky

    cbmotorsport
    Member

    If it was me I would have thoroughly checked the frame over before selling, and wouldn’t be happy ripping someone off.

    How would you have done this without stripping the paint off to reveal the crack? Be reasonable.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    These things happen..

    I unwittingly sold a frame with a crack on it via the Classifieds. I hadn’t spotted it when I stripped the frame, but the buyer sent me a photo, so I refunded him in full. It was slightly complicated as he’d sold the frame on without unpacking it, so I refunded him and he refunded his buyer.

    xiphon
    Member

    In defence of the seller, if the frame has been resprayed and the crack was not visible – how would the seller know it was damaged?

    Would he go back to the previous seller and ask for a refund? How far along the chain does it go?

    yorkshire89
    Member

    I couldn’t expect him to see it through the paint, but he did say this.

    iolo
    Member

    footflaps, did the buyer come and collect the frame in person?

    Premier Icon edd
    Subscriber

    From the OP:

    After stripping the paint and removing the BB I noticed a crack in the BB shell that I couldn’t see while it was still painted.

    Frankly; you tell us, in the quote above, that it was not visible before you removed the paint and bottom bracket.

    I don’t think that the seller can be blamed for this.

    iolo
    Member

    That ultrasound was on the rear triangle, behind the bottom bracket,nowhere near your crack. Or am I missing something?

    andyparle
    Member

    I am currently trying to get hold a member call “injured Flanker” who sold me a frame which on close inspection has 3 small cracks running from the seatpost slit and a dent on the weld of the downtube. I emailed him about this and he asked me to send him some photos and that he would never knowingly sell a cracked/damaged frame (to be fair they where hard to spot and could have easily been overlooked).
    I sent him the photos and have had no reply for 3/4 weeks and he seems to have disappeared from the forum.
    I have ended up spending £60 getting a frame repairer to weld the area on the seat tube, not best pleased!

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    footflaps, did the buyer come and collect the frame in person?

    No, I posted it.

    You wouldn’t have spotted the crack till you assembled it and loaded the stays as it was held shut by the tension in the rear triangle, hence I missed it.

    Sui
    Member

    well the photo’s on the pinkbike advert don’t show any cracks, then again neither can you see the non-drive side very well. mrjmt has got it. Could all be entirly innocent, especially as the BB has been removed post sale..

    mudshark
    Member

    He agreed to give me a full refund and arrange a courier to pick up the frame.

    He agreed to refund, no excuses now.

    yorkshire89
    Member

    Ok bit of a rant…

    I recently purchased a 2008 zesty frame from a forum member on here. I live 200 miles away from the seller but was working down South so picked the frame up on my way back home. I was assured by the seller that there were no cracks or dents to the frame, and while picking the frame up I never noticed anything. He was at work at the time so I just picked it up from his housemate. The frame still had the BB fitted and was told it was in good condition and didn’t need replacing although to me felt a bit rough so intended to replace it anyway.

    I took the frame apart to strip the paint ready for powdercoating. After stripping the paint and removing the BB I noticed a crack in the BB shell that I couldn’t see while it was still painted. See thread here…
    http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cracked-bb-shell-repairable

    I contacted the seller who said he had no idea about the crack, he had his LBS fit the BB because he didn’t have the correct tools and they never mentioned anything to him. He agreed to give me a full refund and arrange a courier to pick up the frame. He knows a guy who will fix the frame for him to sell on again. He had just bought a brand new bike with my money going towards it so said he would not be able to give me a refund until he got paid (end of September). I gave him the benefit of doubt and agreed to wait until he had money.

    I chased him up after payday to see when he was going to give me a refund. I got a text a few days later at midnight giving excuses as why he hasn’t sorted it yet including he is trying to find a suitable courier to post the frame that is not too expensive, reliable and reputable. He can’t do this overnight… (I said ask on here).
    Also he’s having a mad time at work to meet a project deadline, leaving no time to research in the evenings / weekends (finding a courier!).

    I got a text last week to say that he’s in no hurry to give me a refund because it’s going to cost him to get the frame returned, repaired, resprayed and stickered up. He also said that I should have noticed the crack myself when I went to pick the frame up!

    It just seems to be one excuse after another, I’ve not had a text back all weekend and believe he has no intention of refunding me at all knowing that I live so far away.

    tonyd
    Member

    Looking at the ad on PB I wouldn’t say he was trying to hide anything as there’s lots of photos of the damage that was described. If you couldn’t see the crack until you stripped it I don’t see how he could be expected to. Even if I had access to the equipment I don’t think it would ever occur to me to run an ultrasound against a frame before selling it!

    Of course all of that could have been a cunning ruse to hide the additional damage he did know about, but that seems far fetched to me.

    Tough position to be in, not sure what I’d expect. I’d hope for a refund but wouldn’t expect it.

    In the original PB ad he states:

    Frame has been wrapped in frame tape when I bought it it a year ago by the local bike shop

    So was it bought new from the shop? If so two thoughts spring to mind:

    1) He really doesn’t look after his bikes if he did that much damage in a year.
    2) Surely it’s still warrantied? If so perhaps he can get it fixed/replaced under warranty and you both win.

    Edit: Oh, perhaps just the LBS heli-taped it for him and he bought it second hand a year ago.

    cbmotorsport
    Member

    I take it back OP. He obviously knew all about it. That’ll teach me to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

    yossarian
    Member

    it may be that the seller advertised for a new front triangle to replace the cracked one for the buyer.

    I’d say that legally the buyer has little recourse, however if the seller has offered to refund then he should honour that.

    cbmotorsport
    Member

    Good point, that’ll teach me to give the benfit of the doubt to people i’ve given the benefit of the doubt to…or something like that.

    yorkshire89
    Member

    The front triangle ad was after I had mentioned the crack and he said he would try to find a replacement to be fair.

    I should have probably spotted it picking up the frame, all the photo’s on pinkbike are on the driveside. I did have a look when i picked the frame up but the BB was quite grubby with chipped paint so it was difficult to spot the crack.

    I still think after offering a full refund he should stick to his word.

    mrjmt
    Member

    I think the relevance of the BB being in the frame is well described in the thread linked to by the OP, its a press fit BB, which the seller said didn’t need replacing and that was fitted by his LBS. Either he’s not being honest or his LBS were unable to find a cracked BB shell when pressing the new BB in?!?
    I know which I’m leaning towards. 😯

    rockhopper70
    Member

    as already mentioned…hasn’t the dispute moved on to honouring the promise of the refund?
    If that was offered and accepted by the OP then that becomes part of the contract incorporated into the sale.
    IMO.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 129 total)

The topic ‘Bought a cracked frame from STW classifieds’ is closed to new replies.