Problem is that politics doesn’t pay enough

simply not so unless you have very skewed idea of what “enough” is

Personally I have them as very much overpaid. Paid far more than the bulk of the country

Personally I would have the wages set at say twice national average ( so £60 000 ish) all expenses to be scrutinized to be legitimate with much tougher rules and all second jobs banned. then we get folk with a public service ethos not those with snouts in the trough

No one in the NHS for example bar one or two very top leadears each anything like as much as MPs – same for all the public services.

Far too many are there for the snouts in troughs in all parties not to serve.

Far too many are there for the snouts in troughs in all parties not to serve.

Totally agree with this, though.

My MP won’t criticise his boss because he’s already swallowed him Remain/One Nation principles in order to retain and enhance his own position. He’s already sold out, there’s no way he’s going to grow a conscience now. 😒

Problem is that politics doesn’t pay enough

simply not so unless you have very skewed idea of what “enough” is

Personally I have them as very much overpaid. Paid far more than the bulk of the country

Totally agree – I don’t want people to be politicians because it pays well, I want them to do it because they’re driven to improve the lives of the people they lead and the country they govern.

If one wants the very best people to run your country, without being in hock to someone other than their constituents, pay them exceeding well but ban external payments and possibly no expenses.

Say £500k, but they need to pay any researchers themselves, no second homes allowance, no non-exec roles (nor within 5-10 years of leaving office).

They can have any required security details on top of that.

It would probably save money on the present salary plus expenses plus folk to police the expenses routine.

Otherwise they look after unions or companies or whatever and move on to far higher paid roles that are not looking after their constituents.  Didn’t Hague get £900k for public speaking one year?  Ban that.

There are very few politicians in it for the MP salary. They earn there money through dodgy 2nd jobs/consulting etc. Be far better paying them far more, say in line with a consultant doctor for example and have much tighter rules on what they can and cannot do for 2nd jobs.
£80k is a lot compared to the average UK salary but it really isn’t a huge salary compared to what can be earned elsewhere.

Its funny isn’t it that ” pay to get the best people” applies to politicians and bureaucrats but not to doctors or nurses or teachers or police

half a million a year – that just will attract the snouts in troughs mob. Its them we want rid off

Errmmm – £80 000 is just under what a consultant gets if they are on the crap new contracts. very few MPs would be able to earn anything like £80 000 in the real world doing a real job – partly because jobs paying that much are very few and far between

https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/consultants-pay-scales/pay-scales-for-consultants-in-england

I don’t think the base salary is at all bad. It’s top 10% of salaries, factor in expenses, most MPs claim back a lot of their day to day expenses which the rest of us have to pay. Pension is good and job security is not bad, most get at least a 5 year contract, I’ve only had one role that lasted longer than that. Do a good job and you are on a rolling contract. To be honest pay much more and you will attract people who are solely after the money, the salary package is plenty comfortable enough for people with the right mindset to not be out of pocket and focus on the job.

So no I don’t think they should be paid more. I also think there should be zero second jobs and would like to see lot of caveat around subsequent employment, if you don’t like it don’t stand.

But for PM you don’t want some random Joe off the street who’s unemployable in any other sector, without any ability to lead, negotiate or manage. Corbyn tried that, and apart from anything else, he was somewhat lacking the skillset required to run a country or indeed a political party.

BoJo is a clown, but he is employable, and earned quite a lot being employed. He’s also somewhat able to organise things – as shown being London mayor. Unfortunately, he also thinks he’s born to lead and that’s why he’s doing it.

MPs salery is in the top 5% of UK earners.

Nicko – but there are perfectly capable people earning a lot less than that. Head teachers, hospital managers. to give two groups

Its funny isn’t it that ” pay to get the best people” applies to politicians and bureaucrats but not to doctors or nurses or teachers or police

Not in my opinion, I think most public sector workers are underpaid.

very few MPs would be able to earn anything like £80 000 in the real world doing a real job – partly because jobs paying that much are vwery few and far between

Many of the current crop yes, but some MP’s and its easy to forget there are a lot of good hard working ones that deserve every penny they get and would be easily capable of earning more in the private sector. The ones milking it are not earning the majority of their cash through the MP salary.

Ian Hislop said something similar on HIGNFY once.

Double their current pay.

Then ban any expenses claims beyond absolute necessities like travel for constituent business only (none of this decorating second homes, duckponds, every sodding food shop at Waitrose…), ban any second jobs (we’re told how busy MPs are yet they all seem to have time to take on second jobs…), ban any donations to individuals, it all has to go through an independent Committee and funds go to the party so there can be no “buying off” a politician locally.

Remove most of the subsidy on the bar and restaurants – everyone else has to buy a lunch at work out of their own pocket.

Then see how many of them stick around “to serve the people”…

there are a lot of good hard working ones that deserve every penny they get and would be easily capable of earning more in the private sector.

Really? They would be able to get a job paying the top 5% of wages? Name one who is remotely qualified for a job earning that much

Yep. There’s a MMT (magic money tree) when it comes to expenses, free houses, foreign holidays. No fiscal probity there.

There isn’t any point in me naming anyone as you would disagree as you think £80k is excessive.
There are plenty careers in which people can easily earn over £80k (not me though just so we are clear)
Law
Medicine
Engineering
Consultancy
Its all about perspective, to some 80k is excessive to others its not enough.

very few MPs would be able to earn anything like £80 000 in the real world doing a real job – partly because jobs paying that much are vwery few and far between

Except they’re not – not really. If an MP’s salary is £80k which is a smidge above the 96th percentile (according to 2019 data which is the latest I could find) of employees, then that means that 1 in 25 is earning more. NB that’s employees so wouldn’t include company directors or people with familial wealth. 1 in 25 doesn’t seem that much to me.

Divide that down by the demographics that apply to MPs (*well-educated, often a high level of family wealth etc) and multiply by their skillset (networking, personable, good negotiating, hard-working etc). I bet they wouldn’t consider themselves high earners among their friends & peers.

It’s also nowhere near enough to stop people from being tempted to leverage their position for other salaries (from legal stuff like speaking fees, consulting, down to financial market manipulation / insider trading etc). I don’t really subscribe to the argument that they should be paid more in order not to break the law. But then I believe that there should be honour in these high offices and look where we are…

* NB loads of generalisations here.

@Superficial

What I would have liked to have said but phrased far better than I would have managed. I agree entirely.

excel of Hospital trust and authority pay scales

The only ones that come close to the level of MP are roles like Head of Facilities at a small trust. The median wages for most senior roles in NHS trusts are more or less double what an MP gets as a basic. I would expect some MPs to be able to do some of these roles. If you went from running a large NHS trust to becoming an MP (not inconceivable) you’d take a pretty substantial pay cut

There are plenty careers in which people can easily earn over £80k (not me though just so we are clear)
Law
Medicine
Engineering
Consultancy

Very few in those professions will earn significantly more than £80 000 pa

Medical consultant – I put the pay scale above. GPs earn a bit more. Law – again trial barristers will and equity partners in top firms but the majority of lawyers are not in these posts

engineering – again a very few at the top

You have a very skewed idea of what folk earn

do you really think an MP is worth a lot more and is a harder job than being a medical consultant or a head teacher?. remember this is back benchers we are talking about – ministers get a good chunk more

The median wages for most senior roles in NHS trusts are more or less double what an MP gets as a basic.

Only if you exclude the medical consultants, the nurse managers etc. they don’t count as senior roles?

How many folk get those salaries?

feeling the heat ?

Word among Conservative MPs is that Boris Johnson has begun calling his critics, hinting at the prospect of promotion and asking in return that they 'stay with me'. Clearly No 10 feel the threat of a confidence vote if those kind of approaches are being made.

— Paul Brand (@PaulBrandITV) May 31, 2022

do you really think an MP is worth a lot more and is a harder job than being a medical consultant or a head teacher

No, which is why i stated earlier that most public sector works are underpaid.
I think we shall agree to disagree, you think 80k is a massive salary, I think its a good salary for sure but realise more is available elsewhere.

Once again we see here the massively skewed ideas of what people earn

There is no qualification to be an MP. No training, no set of standards. The back bench MP is a simple job and paid far in excess of what these people would get outside of parliament with their skills for the vast majority of them. This means it attracts the wrong sort of people. those after the money not those with a public service ethos.

simple job

Not if you are doing it properly. And definitely not if you are an opposition MP

excess of what these people would get outside of parliament with their skills for the vast majority of them

Just something you have decided is true.

those after the money not those with a public service ethos.

This is only true for the ones earning silly money for dodgy 2nd jobs.

the nurse managers etc. they don’t count as senior roles?

Director of Nursing at a larger trust is on about £150,000.  Most GPs are on about £10.5k a session with will give them about the same as an MP’s salary. I don’t think I’d want a constituency of 90-100K people while earning “about” the same as a local doctor with a patient load of 2500 people (give or take), with all the public exposure that being an MP entails.

Plus of course there’s the matter of getting there in the first place. This Sky news piece thinks the average candidate spends about £118,000 to become an MP.

Klunk’s tweet basically says “I will reward disloyalty”, imagine how you’d feel if you’re one of the poor useless idiots that’s been parroting the party line all the way from Paterson to Hancock to Partygate and suddenly some guy that’s <gasp> belatedly done the right thing gets offered a promotion? How else are you supposed to progress in the tory party other than unrelentingly fellating the boss?

Also there are only 650 MP’s so hedging your bets on getting there “from out with the club” is definitely not the easiest way to go and try earn £85k. Certainly more secure jobs, some might only have a short term before having to go back to what they were doing before.

How much do you think someone like Nadine Dorries could earn on the open market?

The back bench MP is a simple job and paid far in excess of what these people would get outside of parliament with their skills for the vast majority of them

Whilst I agree that MPs pay and particularly expenses and second jobs needs to be reviewed to avoid it being exploited, £80k is not as excessive as you think it is – there’s at least one (senior) civil servant based in our Nottingham office on that, a mate of mine comfortably makes that in IT. As shown above, if one in 25 people earn an MPs salary, that’s one person in every school class – it’s not shockingly excessive*.

And if its done properly – and “if” is doing a lot of lifting there – it’s not an easy job, especially for MPs who spend half their lives away from their homes and families to be in Westminster.

*and I’m bang on average wage, and have been for about the last 15 years.

Another one, John Stephenson (Carlisle)…

I wonder how many more before the Jubliee weekend…

How much do you think someone like Nadine Dorries could earn on the open market?

She could probably make a few £100/month doing medical trials, preferably something veterinary related.

Another one, John Stephenson (Carlisle)…

We did Stevenson on the previous page, before the sidestep into MPs wages.

I wonder who’s next…?

You only need 2 GCSE’s to be a train driver and they get £50k per year.
I think the base salary is easily generous enough.
Expenses vary – some MP’s take the proverbial, some don’t.
What we need is more engagement with the electorate. I’d rather have good MP’s, than rich ones.

Train drivers also have to do mental health tests, that I’m pretty sure the average mp would fail.

Wasn’t there a report into MP’s 2nd jobs a while ago, it turned out the roles in the Tory party were ones that improve their wealth & not help people, while those in Labour were ones that helped people.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/22/second-jobs-conservative-scandal-mps-lifestyle-politics

She could probably make a few £100/month doing medical trials, preferably something veterinary related.

Considering she has set up and sold a successful business, been a director of BUPA and sold 2.5 million books, her earning capacity is pretty significant.

Nadine Dorries might be Nadine Dorries but she has sold a few million novels….

We’ve done the wages thing many times before, there’s freelance techies amongst others on this forum who earn as much. I’m with Hislop, double the pay and cut the perks and extra jobs. Most Tory MP’s are in it for the extras, remove them and you, err, remove them.

We should be able to point at our representatives and say “you’ve got one job to do…”

How else are you supposed to progress in the tory party other than unrelentingly fellating the boss?

There is no other way since Brexit. It is such a stupid idea that anyone with enough cash/kudos in the bank pissed off sharpish. Ken Clarke, Fiscal Phil Spreadsheet etc.

All that was left is all that was ever going to be left:

Utter halfwit Brexity loons.
Those that stayed to advance their own bank balances or status.

That is literally ‘it’. To be educated enough to be in parliament means that, to believe in Brexit, you need to be either mentally unhinged, an exploiter, or some combination of the two.

This is a result of the reverse IQ test that is Brexit.

Nadine Dorries might be Nadine Dorries but she has sold a few million novels….

Which makes you wonder, given that she is fabbo wealtho darling, what life event turned her into such a vile person.

Birth.