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Viewing 40 posts - 8,681 through 8,720 (of 17,659 total)
  • Boris Johnson!
  • dazh
    Full Member

    Just par for the course with this gang of morally bankrupt shysters

    Aside from Johnson’s own dishonesty and mendacity, the main thing this whole episode has exposed is how difficult it is to get rid of a corrupt government/PM who routinely break their own rules and the laws they pass. Ultimately there’s only one way to get rid of a government, and that’s via an election. Labour should be demanding an election now and proposing new policies which will hold future governments to account in situations such as this.

    The-Beard
    Full Member

    I just can’t see how anyone can defend it or come away with any other impression than them just laughing at you and treating us all with utter contempt

    It’s starting to become utterly exhausting, being so angry with them the whole time (and by ‘them’ I mean the whole sodding system).  I can’t decide if I should become more political and active and make a really big noise about this or just give up, switch off all media and ignore it all as it feels like it’s impossible to change any of it.

    dazh
    Full Member

    I can’t decide if I should become more political and active and make a really big noise about this or just give up

    Does make you wonder just how much the ‘Great British Public’ are willing to be shafted before they get off their lazy apathetic arses and do something about it. If this was France Paris would be in flames by now. A while back I got roundly slagged off for saying that burning down tory constituency offices wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing. I’m even more of that opinion now.

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    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    @dazh – I agree that Labour (and other parties) are just not being a robust opposition. So much opportunity to keep calling for change, to inspire a better future, to demand integrity from our public servants.

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    It’s starting to become utterly exhausting, being so angry with them the whole time (and by ‘them’ I mean the whole sodding system). I can’t decide if I should become more political and active and make a really big noise about this or just give up, switch off all media and ignore it all as it feels like it’s impossible to change any of it.

    Better hurry up if you want to do that 🙂

    Before they get the laws thru to prevent that.

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    ignore it all as it feels like it’s impossible to change any of it.

    Not a dig at you mate, genuinely, but that’s a good part of why we have a Tory government and Boris for a PM.

    Your point on the seeming impossibility of changing the system is valid though.

    I made a post ages back about the merit of having a written condition and it was roundly dismissed as being unnecessary.

    I’m now wondering if we really do need one. It would help deal with a PM /government that is overtly corrupt and simply doesn’t play by the old codes of “honour” and falling on your sword for the greater good.

    alpin
    Free Member
    intheborders
    Free Member

    People will say they are weak and useless because they couldn’t get rid of the most useless and corrupt PM in living memory.

    They will, but just reply telling them it’s because we don’t have a functioning constitution that he’s both in place and still here.

    nickjb
    Free Member

    but that’s a good part of why we have a Tory government and Boris for a PM.

    Spot on. Those that think they are born to rule are very happy for the electorate to leave them to it. You’ve got to keep fighting if you want any change, but it is hard.

    dantsw13
    Full Member

    Has the report actually been finished? Twitter makes it sound like it has…

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I agree that Labour (and other parties) are just not being a robust opposition. So much opportunity to keep calling for change, to inspire a better future, to demand integrity from our public servants.

    Apart from thats exactly what they are doing  Both Raynor and Starmer made statements to that effect in the last couple of days.  However there is also the old adage ” Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”

    So its a fine balance.  also given the amount of news coming out of the tories its hard to get column inches

    igm
    Full Member

    Keir’s done well so far on this one.

    PMQs etc that got BoJo to make statements in the house that look more and more like misleading parliament – and that, even if it’s about whether he accidentally pocketed a paperclip that wasn’t his, is a resigning matter.

    Keir doesn’t need to knock him out, only get him lying to the house.

    greyspoke
    Free Member

    The reason civil cases and administrative investigations often end up needing to be paused when there are criminal proceedings isn’t just, or even primarily, that the prosecutors might prefer that. It is because a combination of rules and practical considerations mean that the civil/administrative process may not be possible, for example potential criminal defendants claiming the privilege against self-incrimination, relevant material getting seized, witnesses being more reluctant to co-operate and so on. A fair disciplinary proceeding would be difficult for an employee who is also a criminal defendant where the cases are about the same thing, so often employees remain suspended for the duration. There is the possibility of publication of stuff preventing a fair trial, thought that is really only a concern in jury cases and these would be magistrates jobs (afaik).

    The Gray investigation is kind of preliminary to disciplinary proceedings, and may be almost complete. I read that she was not going to publish the names of junior staff involved anyhow. So many of these difficulties may not apply.

    dazh
    Full Member

    However there is also the old adage ” Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”

    There’s a huge danger that labour will be seen as enjoying all this. It’s not time to be sitting back and enjoying the ride, it’s time to be going for the jugular and demonstrating the same level of outrage and anger that the public feel. At PMQs last week Starmer and Rayner looked like they were having a ball.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    They will, but just reply telling them it’s because we don’t have a functioning constitution that he’s both in place and still here.

    There have been two recent examples from a country thats keen on their written constitution of a government being quite happy to ignore it when it suits them.

    nickc
    Full Member

    There’s a huge danger that labour will be seen as enjoying all this.

    Folks have realised that this is all the problem of the Tories and Johnson. The occasional upwards bump in the Tories polling doesn’t hide the fact that everyone now thinks of Johnsons as some-one who is untrustworthy and deceitful. Something like 60% of the voting population thinks he should resign, the cops are investigating possible crimes and it turns out the Grey report won’t need to be delayed after all. it’s just a matter of when now.

    rone
    Full Member

    Time and time again attacking incompetence doesn’t stick unless you’re attacking Labour.

    It’s up to Starmer as per DazH to start using politics as a means of attack.

    Right back to the start of the pandemic Starmer has been weak and he’s paid the price.

    Labour aren’t offering anything anywhere near good enough with ideological conviction.

    gwaelod
    Free Member

    There have been two recent examples from a country thats keen on their written constitution of a government being quite happy to ignore it when it suits them.

    This is an important point. A written constitution in itself is a guarantee of nothing.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Your point on the seeming impossibility of changing the system is valid though.

    The change we need is PR. Currently, millions of potential protest votes against the government or any party are simply ignored because of how the system currently works.

    PrinceJohn
    Full Member

    The change we need is PR. Currently, millions of potential protest votes against the government or any party are simply ignored because of how the system currently works.

    But when we had a referendum on it we said no. It was quite recently politically speaking. & no I don’t remember it either.

    Proportional Representation

    nickc
    Full Member

    But when we had a referendum on it we said no

    Also, don’t look to Labour either, the Unions are completely against it. and killed it deader than dead thing at the last conference

    binners
    Full Member

    But when we had a referendum on it we said no.

    It wasn’t really PR we were offered. It was a dogs dinner of a half way house

    The Labour party, if it was in any way sane, would be championing PR, but unfortunately the unions who fund them are a bunch of dinosaurs stuck firmly in the 1970’s and still entertain the fantasy of some grand landslide victory under FPTP

    tjagain
    Full Member

    You cannot blame this upon the unions Binners – the whole PLP are against any form of PR because they know under PR they will lose.  Look to Scotland.  Now while the collapse of labour in Scotland is not just down to PR its a significant part of it because it allows other parties to gain fair representation

    the fact that it means we would never have a tory government again is lost on them.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    But when we had a referendum on it we said no.

    No, we have referendum on AV. Where Cummings proved he could run a good referendum campaign… which he damn well can… ultimately leading to Britain being in the mess we are now.

    You cannot blame this upon the unions Binners

    > checks the conference vote on PR … I think he can <

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Not solely on the unions then.  The PLP are solidly against it for the simple reason they would never get sole power again either and they look to Scotland and see that PR works against them as well.  turkeys do not vote for Christmas

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Off the top of my head, Clive Lewis and David Lammy have spoken strongly about the need for Labour to back PR. I’ve no idea if your “solidly” is just a guess, or if you’ve read something that backs it up as regards where all the MPs stand on this.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Numerous statements on it over the years and the actions of labour during the debate on AV both before and after the bill was published

    kelvin
    Full Member

    AV isn’t PR. Many people voted against and campaigned against AV precisely because what was proposed wasn’t a proportional system.

    Don’t assume today’s MPs share the same views as MPs from a decade ago anyway, or that those still in the commons from those days haven’t changed their minds.

    I have no idea what that balance is in the PLP right now as regards supporting PR. Do you?

    ransos
    Free Member

    I have no idea what that balance is in the PLP right now as regards supporting PR. Do you?

    Starmer refused to back it at their most recent party conference. I suspect it’s a bit too democratic for his tastes.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    That’s one. I’m sure there are many more. Is that the PLP being “solidly” against? Or is it 50:50? Slight majority against? In favour? If they are listening to their CLPs, I’d hope more and more are at least considering PR. This should all be in another thread though, sorry.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Del
    Full Member

    A while back I got roundly slagged off for saying that burning down tory constituency offices wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing. I’m even more of that opinion now.

    Let us know when you start 🙄

    Anyway, Crispin Blunt defending Johnson on PM tonight. Lots of talk about ‘perspective’, how these things aren’t really important, and how in the end it’s just a fpn. ‘i mean, you wouldn’t expect a PM to resign for a speeding ticket, would you?’

    Gloriously out of touch! 🤣 Keep going!

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    The change we need is PR. Currently, millions of potential protest votes against the government or any party are simply ignored because of how the system currently works.

    But when we had a referendum on it we said no. It was quite recently politically speaking. & no I don’t remember it either.

    That was when we had a Prime Minister who liked the idea of using referendums as a way of making ideas he didn’t like go away 🙂

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Love this

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I don’t know about you, but that sounds like it could have been a zoom meeting. You know, like everyone else was having to have at that point.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Happens all the time at my workplace. Pop into a room expecting a high-level strategy meeting and instead find that there’s a birthday party going on with cake and people singing.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Its very noticeable that the senior cabinet ministers are not backing him publicly anymore.  All in hiding?  its left to the 4th rate ones to go on telly to defend him.

    It must be awful for Johnson personally – ( good ) but how much longer will he tolerate the torture?  I am sure of his total unwillingness to resign as that would mean admitting he has done wrong but on the other hand the temptation to run away must be huge

    PMQs tomorrow should be fun.  Maybe he will resign once he gets the Grey report so he does not have to face the ordeal of being openly mocked again.  It must have hurt him last week

    trailmonkey
    Full Member

    turkeys do not vote for Christmas

    Brexit and an 80 seat Tory majority says they do. Often.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I can see him staying in place ‘till the next election now. For him, another Tory winning the next election means nothing to him, he doesn’t care. Whereas a shot at another 5 years, with a smirking “you know I’m a lying self serving waste of space, but vote for me anyway, we’ll show them”, even if there is only the outside chance of being successful… hell, probably partly because everyone thinks he is unlikely to win… I can see him eyeing that up and going for it, and being amused to test and see just how much he can get away with.

    Why would his MPs put up with that? Well, he purged the party of MPs who wouldn’t back him. Any MP who turns on now him is admitting that they made a mistake… and I’m sceptical about enough doing that only two years down the line. And if they were wrong about Johnson… how else has their judgment failed them in recent years…?

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