So, this enquiry then…

Do we think it will be fair and transparent, or will it be a whitewash/cover up ..?

I learned yesterday that Gray once gave advice on using personal email addresses for work business that costs the government thousands, and has form for guiding and encouraging colleagues and ministers how not to leave a paper trail.

There are leaks already that the enquiry will let him off the hook. It’s all good, the more they resist the inevitable the more damage they do to themselves.

Agreed I initially thought there is no way they can find in his favour , but I suspect they might try it and there will be a lot more damage done (as it is the public know he is taking the piss this will just add insult to injury)

Its already being leaked she will find some minor issues but the underlings will get most of the blame.
Even by his standards it would be a major screwup to chose someone who would actually do the job properly.

I have to admit I’m enjoying checking the news apps ever few hours waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I fancy, Boris is bunkered down, praying for time to let this blow over a little, but equally knowing whoever is behind all the leaks is still holding a few more things back.

I give it a day or so before it’s leaked that during this ‘isolation’ period he’s actually taking lots of meeting, begging for some support.

Hmmm

my understanding is she can only make a call on matters of fact and cannot recommend any action – Johnson is the one who decides what is done with the information she finds

Isn’t she just writing an advisory report, but has no remit to apportion blame or set sanctions?

The ultimate arbiter of apportioning blame and any subsequent sanctions or punishments is good ‘ol fat lad himself, marking his own homework again.

Given how hard-faced he’s been so far (his face’d stand cloggin’ as my gran used to say), I think we can all guess which way that will go

Move along now. Nothing to see here….

Johnson is the one who decides what is done with the information she finds

Ah excellent. We can therefore be sure that, as with the Priti Patel bullying case where it was found she had bullied her staff, Johnson decided that nothing should be done anyway.

Its not just about Johnson.

Does anyone really expect a civil servant to honestly carry out an investigation that has a very good chance of uncovering illegal behaviour from a large number of senior colleagues?

I give it a day or so before it’s leaked that during this ‘isolation’ period he’s actually taking lots of meeting, begging for some support.

That ships already sailed. According to the Guardian that’s exactly what he spent yesterday doing.

I now really hope he brazens it out and stays in place as any remaining support ebbs away. The perfect scenario would be a leadership challenge, with all associated blood-letting, which just fails to get the numbers to remove him, so he’s ‘safe’ for another year. A year sat impotently on his thrown to watch over a Tory civil war, backbench rebellions over everything and hopefully a general election

Its already being leaked she will find some minor issues but the underlings will get most of the blame.

Jacob Rees-Mogg has said; civil servants who went to Boris Johnson’s party should be sacked but Johnson stay in power, because: “Civil servants are subject to HR. HR does not apply to ministers because they have to retain confidence of the British people!”

Part of the Civil Service code is to support the government of the day so I am not wildly optimistic about the report.

I think this is the end for the toffs. They’ve managed to cast a spell over the nation for the last decade but the mask has truly slipped now.

I saw Isabel Oakshot on QT last night as well and we saw another example of how the gulf between the hard right brexiters and the posh mob has widened to a chasm.

What really did it for them was Jacob Lynch Mobb refering to the Scottish MSP leader as “lightweight” on Newsnight the previous evening.

Benny Hill and chums thought they could use the plebs to get what they wanted. In the end it was the ‘plebs’ who used Boris to get what they wanted, Brexit and turning the Nation into little Britain. Johnson only wanted power, and his chums were only interested in the profit.

Be the usual “we do not recognise the findings of this report” some junior  civil servant will be sacked  and Tories will stick two fingers up to the rest of us.

I’m wondering if, just before the enquiry is released, it’ll get referred to the met for another long, period of, (“It wouldn’t be appropriate to comment while there’s an ongoing”) inquiry.

Which will of course eventually find no evidence.

Hiya,

The longer he stays in the more damage he does to his party and the more the lies of the last 5 years will be exposed. I think their will be a Tory civil war for sure Boris sacked the moderates for the UKIP and those that were simply hangers on. Sadly there is no one of any talent of skill left in the Conservative-UKIP party, so the infighting will get worse and they will simply self destruct. I’m hoping the whole political landscape changes and something for the better. Sadly it will be a year of turmoil so hold on tight is what I will say…

JeZ

Whoever updated his wiki page deserves a suitcase full of wine. pic.twitter.com/8uxBZstskX

— Lee Ewen (@leegewen) January 14, 2022

Sunak is looking like the only real alternative, Im not convinced a billionaire ex hedge fund manager is going to work that well.

He makes Starmer look charismatic

The Tory poll collapse is still being driven by ‘don’t knows’, yougov latest has 7% tory vote switching to Labour but 25% to don’t know
(REFUK still not making an impact)

The right replacement for Johnson could claw them back, but who that replacement will be?

yougov latest has 7% tory vote switching to Labour but 25% to don’t know

The Conservatives have lost 32% support in the polls? That can’t be right, can it?

32% of their polling so 32% of 40% ie 14 points off

Over what period?

Numberwang.

There must be a lot of churn… in the last few months, Labour up, LibDems up, Conservatives down, Green down.

Billionaire Rishi Sunak isn’t the answer for the Tories but he might be for the rest of us. Although I think the electorate is probably suffering from charisma fatigue I think you’re right Kimbers, he will make Starmer look more charismatic and certainly more relatable.

New Labour 2.0 will get the job done at the next election. That’s the direction Starmer is taking the party only without the charismatic messiah bullshit that Blair traded on (which is a goòd thing surely?).

Labour’s deputy leader is playing the Prescot role pretty well too, only she’s smarter and sharper than two jabs ever was, and probably the best figure to try and reconnect with the red wall deserters.

Betfair offering 7/1 that Johnson resigns by end of the week.

Theres no way on earth he’s going to resign

He is ALWAYS sacked

tjagain
Full Member
32% of their polling so 32% of 40% ie 14 points off

Sorry its actually
13% to Labour
11 to REFUK
4 to LD
1 to Green
1 to ‘Other’

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/48dfh8v55q/TheTimes_VI_220113_W.pdf

The Tory poll collapse is still being driven by ‘don’t knows’, yougov latest has 7% tory vote switching to Labour but 25% to don’t know

I had a very candid conversation with a Tory MP a few weeks ago. One of the questions I asked was, “What does Labour have to do to win the next election?”

The answer given was essentially that years of Labour calling Tory voters scum makes it much harder for Tory voters to swing to Labour. If Labour wants to win the next election they must start embracing and charming Tory voters. I thought it was an interesting point.

The answer given was essentially that years of Labour calling Tory voters scum

Citation needed.

Ah… this again… the defence of the con artists… call them out and they will claim you are besmirching the good name of those they have conned. Johnson is a nasty piece of work. Not even sure if that can be said to be just an opinion now. But I in no way think the same of family members and friends who voted for him and his party. Rayner never called people who voted for this mob “scum”… she called the actual politicians scum. And apologised. Probably wishes she hadn’t given all that’s panned out since then. In a similar fashion, when Labour MPs point out all of Johnson’s lies… they are not calling voters liars.

I don’t believe either of the main parties can really sway diehard voters to them, it’s more like they get more people would vote for them, to do so, and demoralise people who’d who for the other guys to stay at home or vote for their second choice, the Libs, the Greens or the National Parties. The Red Wall turning Blue for Brexit might be an exception, but I doubt they’d ever hope to keep it next GE.

I thought it was an interesting point.

Quite possibly deliberately inaccurate though with the confusing about comments about politicians and tory voters in general. Something the tories are quite fond of doing.

But I in no way think the same of family members and friends who voted for him and his party.

I’m not sure I could be so charitable.

Is the behaviour of Johnson and the mob he assembled around him a surprise to you? No, me neither. Did Trump’s behaviour when president come out of the blue – nope, entirely as expected. Trump and Johnson might be the problem once in power, but the real problem are those people without the wherewithal to foresee what they will be like when given it who voted for them.

I will not visit the states for the foreseeable not because I might bump into Donald Trump, but because 3 out of 10 people you meet walking the streets have such poor taste/judgment/values that they saw him as leadership material after witnessing 4 years of his presidency. I don’t see any reason to let those who gave them power off the hook.

I can recommend Ed Balls’ documentary about Trump voters. Don’t assume you know people just because you know who they voted for. I’d go to the USA in a shot. I wouldn’t avoid anyone just for voting for Johnson or Trump… obviously there are people to avoid everywhere… but don’t label anyone simply on who they have voted for (or in many cases, who they have voted against).

I will not visit the states for the foreseeable not because I might bump into Donald Trump, but because 3 out of 10 people you meet walking the streets have such poor taste/judgment/values that they saw him as leadership material after witnessing 4 years of his presidency. I don’t see any reason to let those who gave them power off the hook.

The downside being that you’re in the UK where 3/10 people you meet walking the streets have such poor taste/judgment/values that they voted for Boris / Brexit. Although there’s a significantly lower possibility of them being armed so I guess it’s still a net positive.

I can recommend Ed Balls’ documentary about Trump voters.

Might be a good watch – what channel?

I’m doubtful though – the only people I know who have voted for Farage I would not voluntarily spend time with. Or I would, but might end up with a criminal record.

The downside being that you’re in the UK where 3/10 people you meet walking the streets have such poor taste/judgment/values that they voted for Boris / Brexit. Although there’s a significantly lower possibility of them being armed so I guess it’s still a net positive.

I’m shielded a bit by living where I do. I guess the same could be said for certain states – maybe I need to highlight heavy democrat, low gun ownership states for future travels. Or those where their cousin is not also their mother which probably boils down to the same.

If Labour wants to win the next election they must start embracing and charming Tory voters.

More chance of Lib Dems doing that. The Tories I know would never, ever vote Labour no matter what a mess the Tory party is.
Would be the same as me voting Tory because I think the Labour party has lost it’s way. I simply cannot comprehend voting Tory even in the extremist scenarios.

Part of the Civil Service code is to support the government of the day so I am not wildly optimistic about the report.

Er, no its not. Have a proper read.

Might be a good watch – what channel?

It was BBC… but in today’s world that means it’s available just about everywhere expect iPlayer…

🤷🏻

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bdpvh5

I will not visit the states for the foreseeable not because I might bump into Donald Trump, but because 3 out of 10 people you meet walking the streets have such poor taste/judgment/values that they saw him as leadership material after witnessing 4 years of his presidency.

It’s not just that. It’s the socio-political landscape that led to that happening. It’s far more of a problem IMO.

It’s not just that. It’s the socio-political landscape that led to that happening. It’s far more of a problem IMO.

Very true. I was over simplifying. I envisage USA as a septic/toxic nation I just can’t imagine wanting to voluntarily place myself in. Even so – stuck in a lift with a group of Trump voters…shudder.

the real problem are those people without the wherewithal to foresee what they will be like when given it who voted for them.

The problem is people like my parents who knew it would happen, didn’t want it to happen, but “anyone but Labour”

I envisage USA as a septic/toxic nation

Only because of the way that SM amplifies certain voices. Most of the US population are (like most western Europeans) pretty liberal/left leaning in their world outlook. They want universal healthcare, they want help those more disadvantaged than themselves, they support women’s rights, they’re not racist, they don’t want to live in world filled to the brim with personal weaponry.

Those voices are drowned out.