Ever since SueW’s post I have to admit to a period on introspection and I’ve been wondering about the whole thing of sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

With that in mind I got round to the Terry/Ferdinand spat, and it did make me wonder whether we are all in fact going a bit potty or if indeed the careless or thoughtless use of language is in fact indicative of underlying “ism’s” of one sort or another.

So for example in the JT case is the fact that he is alleged to have called Ferdinand a Black C**t in fact indicative of being a racist or just of being a bit of a thick twunt with a limited vocabulary. Is it actually racist to use the word black in that way?

Wheres the line? There is an argument that its what the recipient perceives, but if a misunderstood comment is going to get you in court, then flipping heck, we’re all in trouble aren’t we?

if a misunderstood comment is going to get you in court, then flipping heck, we’re all in trouble aren’t we?

According to recent training my lecturer wife has had, it could most definitely end up with a prosecution…

I think there’s a split between your genuine nasty BNP racist types, and then people who arer just, well… a bit thick

I’ve met quite a few racists. I’ve never come away thinking ‘he was a bright lad!”

As for John Terry. He’s just both a genuinely nasty piece of work, and thick with it! A double whammy!

As for John Terry

He’s an overpaid, brainless football type…

So for example in the JT case is the fact that he is alleged to have called Ferdinand a Black C**t

I read that as TJ and my mind started to unravel before I re-read and corrected myself. 😆

Race
Wherever one was born, wherever their parents came from, whatever the colour of their skin, they have a right to be treated fairly and be protected against racial discrimination and prejudice.

Well, glad the Equality Act has helped the world become better place. Now the liberals need to prosecute the waring factions worldwide under an Earthwide Equality Act.

In the JT example, the word black is unnecessary and gives away the stupidity, prejudice and small mindedness of the person making the statement.

As does the word ‘football’ in this:

rossi46 – Member

As for John Terry

He’s an overpaid, brainless football type…

FOOTBALLIST!
😉

He’s an overpaid, brainless football type…

I find this offensive…

I read that as TJ and my mind started to unravel before I re-read and corrected myself.

+1!

TJ and my mind started to unravel

LOL

He’s an overpaid, brainless football type…

Yep but is he a racist for calling Ferdinand precisely what he would describe himself as?? I wholly agree that the name calling and boorish behaviour of people like Terry is unacceptable, but is it racist? I suspect not personally.

Why not turn this thread into a music thread? People who’ve not bothered with it will think that there’s a mass brawl and bun fight going on when in reality we can be having a loved up love in.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5TwT69i1lU[/video]

My lip-reading had it as f***ing black c***…but was he saying’I didn’t call you a f_b_c_’??

It’s all in the context I believe, the use of the word black. I get tired of people saying for example “you know, the lady with the long hair” when it would be much clearer to say “the black lady” when she is the only black lady in the group.

But JT clearly meant it in a derogatory, offensive way if he did indeed say it.

This is a bit of a tough one, one of my oldest friends is Chinese and I am often extremely racist towards him but only because he knows I don’t mean it and he gives as good as he gets.

I’m quite aware sometimes of how this might come across to an outsider and I’d be mortified to have someone think I genuinely had any issues with race. I think it is because it is still a big taboo that we both find it so funny.

That said I would never use a racist term in an actual arguement etc. regardless of who I was speaking too, that definitely crosses a line.

I’m an underpaid brainless football type.

And I’m brown! 😮

Is that racist?

😳

But is calling someone ‘black’ racist or just a statement of fact? If he used ‘ni**er’ then intent would be obvious as it’s a well known offensive term, but is ‘black’ offensive? Although I suppose using it with ‘c***’ in the same phrase solves the whole intent issue although he would you need to prove intent to be racist rather than intent to be offensive?

NB Not a troll, just curious as to how you’d prove it was racist eg if prosecuting…

I’m a lazy white english ****.

But is calling someone ‘black’ racist or just a statement of fact?

Calling someone black is a statement of fact. Calling someone a black c*** is racist – he’s making Ferdinand’s colour part of the insult.

OH NO YOU’RE RACITS DOBBO!

I think. I dunno.

Oh it’s sooo confuddling!

(Runs off sobbing)

😥

is ‘black’ offensive? Although I suppose using it with ‘c***’ in the same phrase solves the whole intent issue

Yup, I’m fairly sure he didn’t mean it in a purely descriptive sense!

Following on from Calum’s comments, my gf is like this with a couple of her Pakistani Asian friends – the word (begins with P and rhymes with, er, baccy) gets used mockingly in a way that could be totally misconstrued by outsiders! Indeed in Birmingham (where she is from originally, and I lived until a few years ago) the large Asian population seem to reclaiming the P word as their own as a friendly not-quite-term-of-endearment… But then some white bloke calling someone a ‘P*K* C**t (apologies for Daily-Mail-esque level of self censorship) is not his way of differentiating from all the white C**ts in the room…

is ‘black’ offensive

Not if used where necessary as an adjective to describe/identify an individual (e.g. as per the earlier post referring to pointing out the only black person in a room). In certain situations it’s relevant, and the motivation for using it is not to abuse or offend.

But it is offensive when used in a personal remark directed at an individual, especially when it’s used specifically in an offensive remark.

I’m fairly sure he didn’t mean it in a purely descriptive sense!

I’m pretty sure he did…. all of it, within his limited descriptive powers

You might think this lot were racist, consider what the groups name of N.W.A was.
But theyre not, they were just pointing fun at themselves. That was until it all got a bit too serious….

Don’t get me started on Frankie Boyle…..

I may be missing something, however I think his ‘challenging stereotypes’ is far from it – its simply a disguise for discriminatory based ‘humour’.

If indeed it is challenging stereotypes, I think this is lost on the majority of the people who’s sterotypes need challenging

Have fun with this fellas..

Dull, dull as.

You’re not wrong!

Incidentally I think thats the whole point…. its a non event both in this thread and the original.

why don’t you start another disaster thread on religion

why don’t you start another disaster thread on religion

Oh God help us.

Dobbo – Member
why don’t you start another disaster thread on religion
Oh God help us.

exactly just close these threads running off the back of the one that deserved to be closed.

How about we close this one too?