Bombardier trains for Crossrail

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  • Bombardier trains for Crossrail
  • piemonster

    Matt, that just sounds like an assumption tbh.

    I think a lot of people are aware of the decline of UK owned train manufacturing. Even if not in depth.

    Pretty sure (an assumption) that a lot of folk assume, that a lot of UK based manufacturing is foreign owned. Like TATA.


    .The French wouldn’t understand this thread, methinks!

    Agreed, theirs would be getting built in Romania and Morocco

    OK, ninfan, but I guess the French wouldn’t have hobbled a company like BAe by subjecting them to the anti-corruptian laws we have recently introduced, thus making them uncompetitive in many of their previous markets.


    I’m 100% with you on that!


    I take your point but the authority clients are political too, politics aren’t restricted to central government.

    I suppose.

    My point was coming from the perspective of seeing those politics in “action”.

    To use rolling stock as an example, the procuring authority decides its about time for some new rolling stock. They look around the room and the only person there who’s been involved in any rolling stock deals is Gary, and he’s about to retire (i’m exaggerating, but the point is that they generally lack a team capable of such a project without pulling in significant resources/expertise) .

    So, they go out to the market and pick up a set of advisers (technical, design, legal, finance, insurance etc) who do these sort of deals constantly. On fairly unique deals they’ll also pick up a commercial lead with a track record in getting these things done.

    So now you’ve got half a dozen guys from the authority who will “lead” the deal, supported and guided by their team of advisers.

    First task…it will take a year or two to set up the competition. The contracts, the financials, any reference design, the procurement issues, and regulatory stuff.

    So where do you start? Well the commercial lead will start with the last deal he did which didn’t get successfully challenged, the lawyers will dig out a set of contracts which worked ok and are a good match, the finance guys will start modelling from a similar deal….you get the picture 🙂

    So, the client gets a starting point and it’s tweaked from there. Problem is, you inherit everything. There’s not a huge amount of “improving’ from the last successful deal, just tweaking.

    Unless you’ve got a really sophisticated client, it’s just the same shit over and over for the most part. They’re guided by their advisors rather than politics.

    The concept of a truly bespoke deal is just too expensive and takes too long.

    It’s the same the world over IME. Most PPP deal teams weakest link is on the client side, the ones calling the shots. That’s not supposed to be derogatory to them, it’s just impossible for them to know what they doing if they only do it once or twice in their career, compared to those doing it non stop day in day out, it’s hard for them to not be guided.

    Premier Icon ononeorange

    Pleased for the derby workers. But as a user….if bombardier’s offering is anything like the utter s&&t stock I reluctantly am forced to use as their latest offering on the met line, then that’s cross rail finished. It couldn’t be worse designed. Utter &&&&. IMO.


    Siemens built 380 ‘s and 185’s aren’t without there problems either. The Bombardier 170’s I drive for Scotrail are fine but not as reliable or ugly as the old 156’s . 😉


    Oldboy, ninfan: complete tripe from start to finish. Will respond in detail later when I can be arsed. Weird to hear that BAe has been hobbled by the UK government when the government spiked the antibribery investigation for political reasons.

    It’s a weird thread when Bombardier and BAe are both identified as British!

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