Bombardier trains for Crossrail

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  • Bombardier trains for Crossrail
  • aP
    Member

    How political a decision was that then?
    Good news for Derby though.

    Premier Icon andyfla
    Subscriber

    Marvellous, cant believe any other country wouldn’t give the contract to their indigenous producers when the only diff was credit rating.
    Politicians are a bunch on muppets for getting this wrong in the first place

    awesome.
    I’m pleased.

    Philby
    Member

    Great news.

    Premier Icon The Pinkster
    Subscriber

    Hopefully some parts will be built in Crewe too, which would be good news for he area.

    peterfile
    Member

    How political a decision was that then?

    It wasn’t.

    aP
    Member

    It wasn’t

    Really?

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber
    peterfile
    Member

    You can’t swing a £1bn rolling stock competition on political motivations (in the UK anyway)

    If Hitachi or CAF successfully challenge then I might change my mind, but until then it’s a fair competition IMO.

    oldboy
    Member

    Great news, but which other EU countries with an established railway manufacturing industry would regard this as anything other than business as usual, I wonder.

    aP
    Member

    There’s an interesting discussion on this over on London Reconnections. Particularly about the ultimate ownership of European manufacturers.

    peterfile
    Member

    I’ve read that link, there’s some interesting stuff in there, but lots of speculation and some completely wrong bits. I’d pick it apart, but it would be inappropriate to do so and I wouldn’t fancy my name still appearing on the roll at the end of this year 🙂

    Frankers
    Member

    I work for Hitachi… why is it so great we didn’t get the order?

    mt
    Member

    I was under the impression that Bombardier were a Canadian company.

    It’s great news but it also reminds me of the fact that our locomotive and rolling stock industries along with controls, comm’s etc. were reduced to nothing in the early 90s. Some of the greatest in their field; GEC, BREL, Metro Cammel etc.

    peterfile
    Member

    I work for Hitachi…

    rail europe frankers?

    LHS
    Member

    Great news that a Canadian manufacturer who hold the government to ransom and who have no pedigree on delivering anything on time or to budget gets the contract.

    mefty
    Member

    I think it wrong to say it isn’t a political decision. Under EU rules you are allowed to take social and other factors into account, as well as the economics. It is just historically we haven’t, the present government when Bombardier lost their last high profile contract, Thameslink, said that they were hamstrung by the tendering process created by the previous government which restricted comparison to economics, despite EU allowing other factors in. They said this was wrong and said it would not happen again in future tenders. That was a political decision and a very good one.

    Ro5ey
    Member

    Just as long as the coaches have aircon, I’ll be happy.

    Sunny Brentwood to Bank in 30mins or about an extra 15 mins in bed !!

    Oh and about what? 10-15% on my house price… thanks vmuch

    neninja
    Member

    I work for Hitachi… why is it so great we didn’t get the order?

    Agreed. Hitachi are currently building a massive new factory a couple of miles from me that will bring loads of jobs to the North East.

    peterfile
    Member

    Under EU rules you are allowed to take social and other factors into account, as well as the economics. It is just historically we haven’t

    It’s not that straight forward. Also, we have done it historically, lots.

    mefty
    Member

    It is a sodding post on a cycling website, not a legal treatise.

    aP
    Member

    But you forget, he’s a lawyer…

    peterfile
    Member

    Woah there cowboy!

    What’s with the attitude?

    You’re allowed to give your opinion, but I’m not?

    aP
    Member

    Stop being so touchy.

    mefty
    Member

    Probably should have added a smiley and yes I know he is a lawyer, hence my use of “legal treatise”, the essential thrust of my post was other factors can be taken into account, which are clearly political in nature.

    oldboy
    Member

    The French wouldn’t understand this thread, methinks!

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    Why the love for Bombardier?
    OK, what springs to mind when you hear “hitachi”?
    Now, what nationalistic and heartwarming images does the word” Bombardier” conjure up?
    It is an image thing, including the sympathy vote.

    Premier Icon Kona TC
    Subscriber

    Thankfully this time a train related tax payer funded contract let to support jobs in the UK.

    Just like they do in the rest of Europe! viva La France, German efficiency, Italian flare, etc, etc, etc

    aP
    Member

    I’m not a rail engineer, or for that matter ‘an enthusiast’, but I do design the bits that people use to get to and from the trains, and as such (excepting the fact the the government has changed the procurement rules after Thameslink, and Siemens walked away), the main benefit of the Canadian German British Bombardier contract ensures that at least some of the design for the trains is carried out in the UK, rather than, say, Hitachi’s which’ll be assembling trains manufactured elsewhere (to my understanding – happy to be proven wrong).

    peterfile
    Member

    Probably should have added a smiley and yes I know he is a lawyer, hence my use of “legal treatise”, the essential thrust of my post was other factors can be taken into account, which are clearly political in nature.

    I think, on thameslink, they just got it wrong. It wasn’t so much the political drivers that got it wrong, they just screwed up putting together the competition so that another company was able to win. At the same time thameslink was going on, we had another reach preferred bidder where the emphasis on social/community benefits was huge. I don’t think these decisions (certainly at that time) are driven from central government – for example one transport authority would always push on price, while another might be heavier on design. There was too much inconsistency across huge numbers of authority clients and how they structured their compeitions for politics to have too much influence.

    I agree with you that politics can weigh in and say “wow, we don’t want that to ever happen again…make sure that it doesn’t” and procurements will take more of an advantage of social/community benefits requirements (if that’s what they felt is necessary to appease the voters)…but they were always there to begin with, some just chose not to put as much emphasis on them. With Crossrail, they didn’t screw up the competition. They knew who they wanted to win, knew they couldn’t afford another screw up and made sure the procurement was watertight. IMO that would have happened regardless of the politicians wading in.

    At the end of the day, if you’re weighted at 95% price and 5% quality, it doesn’t matter how great you social benefits are if Le Froggies come in and undercut you 🙂

    piemonster
    Member

    OK, what springs to mind when you hear “hitachi”?

    A 1980s VCR. Why, what does it do for you?

    Now, what nationalistic and heartwarming images does the word” Bombardier” conjure up?

    Rik Mayall in a silly outfit is the closest I can think of. Not sure it’s relevant.

    If you mean Bombardier the train manufacturer. I think of a Canadian owned manufacturer. No real heartwarming nationalism there either.

    mefty
    Member

    I take your point but the authority clients are political too, politics aren’t restricted to central government.

    project
    Member

    Lots of british train companies went out of buisnees due to lack of investment in new roolling stock we got the great hs, and under developed APTP, We lost BAYER PEACOCK, GEC, ENGLISH ELECTRIC, BTH, BREL, all the state owned rail companies, and many more, we got cheap and nasty Pacers, and Sprinters, Pendolinos courtesy of fiat, later sold to bombardier, and many other hopeless stock.

    Now we are buying off the shelf trains, basicly carriges with under floor engines, or electric multiple units, no loco hauled stock as used to be the case.

    gogg
    Member

    It’s good news, MAYBE the tide is turning….

    ninfan
    Member

    The French wouldn’t understand this thread, methinks!

    Agreed, theirs would be getting built in Romania and Morocco!

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    I think of a Canadian owned manufacturer. No real heartwarming nationalism there either.

    I think that is irrelevant to most people who hear Bombardier and assume British.

    aP
    Member

    But most people would be wrong as its pronounced in a French manner (with a Canadian ‘eh?’ on the end). Its original name was L’Auto-Neige Bombardier Limitée, and it made snowmobiles.

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