worst that can happen is to incur the faux moral outrage of some bitter old keyboard libertarians whose moral/social values bend to support their own viewpoint.

No, the worst that can happen is that bikers lose access. There have already been tests of the LRA, which in a couple of cases have revoked access under certain conditions. We do not want to go the same way as England and Wales, because a naive/stupid group of bikers has so publicly breached the Code. Unlikely, granted, but everything like this builds a swell of anti-biker sentiment. We’re proud up here that everyone gets along on shared trails – no wonder folk are so up in arms about the audacity of those guys!

We’re proud up here that everyone gets along on shared trails

Which is pretty much what I saw, people getting along on shared trails 😀

If the argument is that we shouldn’t be there at all in case the frankly unlikely threat of a ban comes into play then by not going into the mountains, we have created a self fulfilling prophecy.

I don’t think that’s the argument, or at least not one that anyone in this thread has made 🙂 AFAICT the “anti” view is that if you’re going to ride Ben Nevis it’s best to do it when there are relatively few people about in the interests of (a) more fun and (b) better PR. Seems fairly uncontroversial to me, TBH.

I’m struggling to see why knickers are getting in a bit of a twist here

because this is STW 😆

3rd of June wasn’t it?

http://www.grough.co.uk/discussion/index.php?topic=690.0

😀 😀

No, the worst that can happen is that bikers lose access.

I am at a loss to understand how this might be achieved. It would certainly be very expensive to implement. I suspect you are invoking the bogey man!

might it not be the case that most of those people weren’t Scottish anyway and so have no say in any codes, understandings or laws there ?

AFAICT the “anti” view is that if you’re going to ride Ben Nevis it’s best to do it when there are relatively few people about in the interests of (a) more fun and (b) better PR. Seems fairly uncontroversial to me, TBH.

Exactly.

“might it not be the case that most of those people weren’t Scottish anyway and so have no say in any codes, understandings or laws there ? “

ah the old ignorance defence.

That is pure speculation

http://www.grough.co.uk/discussion/index.php?topic=690.0

admittedly we can’t possibly be certain about whether the guy was constipated on the day..

ah the old ignorance defence.

defence? This was about the demographic.

I haven’t watched much of it but did see a couple of snippets.

At 15:50-16:10 people are jumping out of the way with inches to spare as they’re buzzed at maybe 20mph or so. No allowance apparently made for the blind, deaf, people with dogs or small kids that might run out.

And then shortly afterwards at around 16:40 I notice the riders carry on down a narrow bit of trail when two walkers have moved to the downslope side of the trail above a steep and long slope. It doesn’t take much of an error to then accidentally knock them. I know the trail’s not terribly technical at that point but it happens – a slip of the front wheel on a rock or a pedal caught on something and you can end up off-line. Surely it doesn’t take much common sense to realise that in that situation if you bump into the walker they don’t stand a chance.

Is this not basic stuff: Don’t expect people to be able to jump out of the way, and don’t pass people when they’re exposed on the downslope side?

Going out on one of the busiest days in the year to one of the busiest walking trails is daft, but riding like that is just behaving like selfish f***ing morons.

You give us all a bad name because you’re dicks. A thousand puctures in turd-infested fields upon you.

I haven’t watched much of it but did see a couple of snippets.

At 15:50-16:10 people are jumping out of the way with inches to spare as they’re buzzed at maybe 20mph or so. No allowance apparently made for the blind, deaf, people with dogs or small kids that might run out.

And then shortly afterwards at around 16:40 I notice the riders carry on down a narrow bit of trail when two walkers have moved to the downslope side of the trail above a steep and long slope. It doesn’t take much of an error to then accidentally knock them. I know the trail’s not terribly technical at that point but it happens – a slip of the front wheel on a rock or a pedal caught on something and you can end up off-line. Surely it doesn’t take much common sense to realise that in that situation if you bump into the walker they don’t stand a chance.

Is this not basic stuff: Don’t expect people to be able to jump out of the way, and don’t pass people when they’re exposed on the downslope side?

Going out on one of the busiest days in the year to one of the busiest walking trails is daft, but riding like that is just behaving like selfish f***ing morons.

You give us all a bad name because you’re dicks. A thousand puctures in turd-infested fields upon you.

plus 1.

also, forget laws and codes and what not, but on all the mtns. i’ve ever gone up, it’s common courtesy to give priority to the uphill folk.

dunno if that’s been mentioned yet…

Sanny – no one is saying don’t go on the Ben – people are saying don’t do it when its busy.

Agreed it was a stupid time to do it but reading this thread it definitely is the new golf isn’t it.

WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE IMAGE!!!!

I got 3 ‘thankyou very muchs’ from 3 horsey women who were frankly being dangerous stumbling down a trail I was going up yesterday so you nezzers can consider this as a ‘wee’ offset to your harmed image.

“Did I watch the wrong video? … The riders … appeared to slow down for everyone they passed.“

Yup, sounds like you were watching the wrong video, or at least different bits of it to me.

“Sanny – no one is saying don’t go on the Ben – people are saying don’t do it when its busy. “

And don’t ride like a dick.

Hmm = an interesting one this. I got flamed a few months ago for “suggesting” that high mountains (eg BN or Helvellyn) were not the best places for MTBs. Perhaps the Mountain in MTB is a misnomer. Yes, I like riding bikes and I like riding in the Lakes etc but I personally always feel a little uncomfortable even riding on Loughrigg!! But this video made me uncomfortable mainly due to the lack of respect shown to walkers on the way up. Basic politeness and consideration surely.

But before we get too dogmatic and personal – why the flak here and not for the sweary Northerners. Great last video on St Sunday Crag to watch, but some of the same issues. Riding on the edge of paths, obvious examples of erosion by tyres on the grass edges etc and this is in the Lakes? Plus the guys who come belting past walkers on Helvellyn (or anywhere) are just as bad IMO

Not sure what the exact answer is here. But this is a common sense FAIL surely? Sometimes we (MTBers) are our own worst enemy!

“WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE IMAGE!!!!“

Hasn’t it already been repeatedly mentioned that responsible use is entrenched in Scottish access law?

There’s a fine line between “image” and posing genuine risk to people through things like failing to anticipate things like unseen children who may appear from groups or partially-able people who may be unable to react quickly to a bike approaching at 20mph, failing to understand the danger of closely passing people stood on a highly exposed slope edge, and posting videos with subtitled comments that include “if he hadn’t moved out of the way I’d definitely have killed him”.

billysugger – Member

Agreed it was a stupid time to do it but reading this thread it definitely is the new golf isn’t it.

You will find the folk complaining have an awful lot of experience in the mountains. NOt newbs at all

Its the whole point its the wrong time to do this

live and let live but im a firm believer of when in other countrys respect their culture , guidelines and laws. – i think this falls under that.

of course simon and his bogtrotters are their own principality and answers only to themselves it seems

.

“if he hadn’t moved out of the way I’d definitely have killed him”.

I took this to be a pop at the above linked sensationalist article. I mean ‘ripping up the Ben’. I bet that day’s weather moved more rock than they did.

I can’t believe some people are defending these morons. Saying ‘thanks’ when steaming past people at 20mph and putting people in danger does not make it ok.

Uncomfortable viewing.

Watched a bit more of the video and some of it is totally out of order and just stupid IMO. Way too close and way too fast at many points.

I don’t see what that has to do with golf.

I’d just like to state I don’t defend them. I don’t even see the point to be honest 15ish mph for minutes on end like riding a jackhammer, can’t see the fun.

It’s just all this talk of image I object to. I ride because it’s fun. I have for 20+ years and I will do if MTBs have a good/bad image. Just be courteous but don’t pander to them. They could have stopped and let every single walker past but some would still probably have looked at them like they were in the wrong for being on ‘their’ mountain.

with subtitled comments that include “if he hadn’t moved out of the way I’d definitely have killed him”.

that was ironic

“They could have stopped and let every single walker past but some would still probably have looked at them like they were in the wrong for being on ‘their’ mountain. “

So what? In what way is this a defence of riding like a dick who puts other people at risk?

I’d just like to state I don’t defend them

Stop frothing man

I can’t believe some people are defending these morons. Saying ‘thanks’ when steaming past people at 20mph and putting people in danger does not make it ok.

Uncomfortable viewing.

+1

I’m no poster boy for access campaigns, but even I think that looked stupid.

But then I do admit there is a point that if you’re allowed to be there then you’re allowed to be there on a bank holliday. Hypotheticaly if MTB was really popular and hundreds of MTB’ers rode it then would a minority of walkers get stick for being there on a busy bank holliday?

“that was ironic “

Well I had no clue that it was, but my comment still stands.

what a bunch of dicks (the riders on Ben Nevis that is).

I’d just like to state I don’t defend them

shut it then two inch

“if you’re allowed to be there then you’re allowed to be there on a bank holliday“

That’s not been in dispute, though, has it?

You’re *allowed* to be a pedestrian on the pavement but if you put on American football gear and run down a narrow pavement on the last shopping day before Christmas expecting everyone to jump out of the way then that would make you a prize dick.

But then I do admit there is a point that if you’re allowed to be there then you’re allowed to be there on a bank holliday. Hypotheticaly if MTB was really popular and hundreds of MTB’ers rode it then would a minority of walkers get stick for being there on a busy bank holliday?

No, because the access code dictates that cyclists give way to walkers. Also, walkers are never going to be endangering and scaring others by going 20mph+ down busy and not very wide sections of path.

You’re *allowed* to be a pedestrian on the pavement but if you put on American football gear and run down a narrow pavement on the last shopping day before Christmas expecting everyone to jump out of the way then that would make you a prize dick.

Well put. 🙂

shut it then two inch

?

You been speaking to the mrs?

Bez – Member

“if you’re allowed to be there then you’re allowed to be there on a bank holliday”

That’s not been in dispute, though, has it?

You’re *allowed* to be a pedestrian on the pavement but if you put on American football gear and run down a narrow pavement on the last shopping day before Christmas expecting everyone to jump out of the way then that would make you a prize dick.

🙂

At what point do they pass walkers at 20mph? I think there is perhaps more than a little bit of exaggeration if you think they are going anywhere near that fast. What I find uncomfortable in this thread are some of the name calling and what comes across, perhaps unintentionally, as a bit of anti English sentiment. Poor show chaps.

You been speaking to the mrs?

😀

No, because the access code dictates that cyclists give way to walkers. Also, walkers are never going to be endangering and scaring others by going 20mph+ down busy and not very wide sections of path.

Yes, but my point was if walkers were a minority would the opposite be true, and walkers have to give way to bikes?

“The law is an ass” and all that.

You’re *allowed* to be a pedestrian on the pavement but if you put on American football gear and run down a narrow pavement on the last shopping day before Christmas expecting everyone to jump out of the way then that would make you a prize dick.

Well said.

“At what point do they pass walkers at 20mph? I think there is perhaps more than a little bit of exaggeration if you think they are going anywhere near that fast.“

15:50-16:10.

I only watched a minute or two around the middle of the video so there may or may not be others.