always impressed at how well a protein shake can split opinions.

vs milk
lower calorie and lower fat
feels more substantial so works well against food cravings
before or after exercise or as a meal replacement
cheap, quick, easy to consume, easy to clear up, doesnt spoil
many folk like it as part of a considered diet, i dont understand the haters.

im sure some people just reach for them instead of water or expect to be the next mr. universe

ghostlymachine – Member

Maybe you just aren’t that fit?
Might explain the struggle to crack 4th cat?

And, may be that wasn’t very polite.

And for those who may have forgotten by page 3, a reminder of the question…

Kryton57 – Member
but why aren’t I losing more fat,

🙂

Solo – Member
ghostlymachine – Member

Maybe you just aren’t that fit?
Might explain the struggle to crack 4th cat?

And may be that isn’t very polite.

Quite, and if he’s tracking my threads that closely he’ll know about the Gorrick podium, 24hr top 10’s & top ten’s in Vets MTB series which might suggest I’m a little bit fit at least.

I am fit, but I’m not a “strong” rider, which is a deficit to my racing, especially crits by thier nature. And I might add, I did OK at Hillingdon – flat so suits me – until I lost my bottle after being surrounded by several crashes.

FWIW I’m pushing 6-8hrs a week if the weather is kind (3+ hrs turbo, 4hrs club ride, 1hr-90mins personal “smash” ride).

I realise I’m not going to be in the top ranks on those numbers but my working and family circumstances support the racing and limit that, not the other way around.

vs milk
lower calorie and lower fat
feels more substantial so works well against food cravings
before or after exercise or as a meal replacement
cheap, quick, easy to consume, easy to clear up, doesnt spoil
many folk like it as part of a considered diet, i dont understand the haters.

A balanced view at last…

A balanced view at last…

Plus milk leaves a rank aftertaste in my mouth

Do you really need a mid-morning snack? I have breakfast at 6:30 and lunch around 13:30, and I don’t usually eat anything between those meals. A bit of hunger won’t kill you.

I tend to have breakfast at half 7, a snack at 10, lunch at 12.. but then dont eat again till 7.30.

FWIW I’m pushing 6-8hrs a week if the weather is kind (3+ hrs turbo, 4hrs club ride, 1hr-90mins personal “smash” ride).

Similar to me, in all honesty I can’t see how I’d fit in more with a full 9-5 and a wife who doesn count me gasping on the turbo at her to open the window as ‘spending quality time together.’

protein shake …after exercise … cheap, quick,

I use the powerbar protien bars a lot. You’re supposed to have IIRC 16g of protein asap after a hard work out to maximise benefits. Thats abotu half a chicken breast’s worth of protein or a couple of eggs so easily acheivable if you have a meal right after. However thats not always possible so if I’ve done a hard turbo work-out and I’m not expecting to eat for an hour or two I’ll have a protein bar straight after. I prefer to time it so I can eat immediately and not bother with the bar but if I’ve ridden in a race/hard ride away from home thats not possible.

I refer you to my earlier post, where its a lower cal supplement to recovery rather than a purchase to build muscle as is normally understood. To put the food back would be to eat more for the same protein content.

Is it worth trying reducing the training volume a bit (or mix it up, swap some turbo time for weights or swimming) so that you don’t need a recovery drink/meal/whatever? Target the weight loss then crank back on the power & strength when you’re at whatever weight you feel comfortable at.

I wonder if you’re trying to make your body do two different things.

I know that exercise tones me up a treat (very obvious when I’m running regularly) but I don’t really lose much on the scales.

Is it worth trying reducing the training volume a bit

Within 10 posts, I’m not training enough, or I need to reduce my training 😀

Think I’ll go for the middle option and stay as I am (I can’t swim).

1) It really isn’t that much exercise.

2) As it isn’t much exercise all nutrition should come from normal food and water, throw away protein shakes, energy drinks etc.

3) Body fat scales are garbage – ignore.

4) You don’t need huge amounts of fancy data to tell you when you are getting faster and/or lighter – a stopwatch, scales and mirror tells you 90% of the story.

I hate to say it OP but this is pretty much spot on. At your current W/Kg you’ve got a big chunk you can achieve on the W side of the equation before getting too hung up on the Kg (assuming you aren’t massively overweight and cracking out 400W FTP).

Do you really need a mid-morning snack? I have breakfast at 6:30 and lunch around 13:30, and I don’t usually eat anything between those meals. A bit of hunger won’t kill you.

I tend to have breakfast at half 7, a snack at 10, lunch at 12.. but then dont eat again till 7.30.

My plan involved taking something out of my lunch and my evening meal and using the calories as an in between meal snack. Prevented me from being really hungry and eating more than I should at main meals.

Also on the subject of cereal bars, not all are created equal. 9 bars are probably better than rice crispy squares. You will need to read the labels and look at the calories, sugar, fat, protein content and consider it.

Is it worth trying reducing the training volume a bit

Seems quite low as it is (to me).

I did about 16 hours a week when I raced in the NPS….

At your current W/Kg you’ve got a big chunk you can achieve on the W side of the equation

And you have the magic formulae? Please enlighten me!

I will add thats this is Trainerroad assessment specific to my setup, so not real world, I tend to push out more like 3.8w/kg in competition.

Seems quite low as it is (to me).

Yes and I wish people would stop banging on about it. I have a job which means I travel about the country during the week so am often not in one location, am the sole earner so its important to me and have two young kids. There isn’t much more time to give to racing TBH, otherwise I would!

Talk about off topic… 🙄

Blimey 3 pages dissecting diet, lifestyle and training regime. I think the only problem the OP has (at least in relation to this topic 😉 ) is how he’s measuring body fat percentage.

Talk about off topic…

You do know how the Internet works right? You don’t get to control everything on it….

Talk about off topic

FFS, he asked why his body fat isn’t going down, not if he’s training enough.
As all agreed, scales are inaccurate at best, and the best judge of how much body fat you’ve lost is probably your eyes (1 rib / 2 ribs / calf definition etc)
Eat clean, eat well, train for a reason, and just cut back on the crap like crisps and cereal bars. Get recovery rides in when possible, and stay hydrated.
You wont turn your upper body into a Gerriant Thomas 12 yr old girl build no matter how hard you train on the bike 😉 Keep up the gym sessions, just watch whats in the food that goes in…

I’d query if body fat % is even a sensible KPI for someone racing 3/4 races? Bunch finesse and a decent sprint will win you lots of points.

if he spent more time training and less time reading this thread…..

I’d query if body fat %

It was an indicative question based on weight loss. When aren’t blessed with masses of power and superior climbing ability, the KG part of the W/KG equation can help a little.

I’m not turning myself into Geraint, just helping myself sensibly to a bit more of the W/KG number in balance.

FWIW I can see an Ab now, and even the end of my cock if I look past my double chins at just the right angle.

if he spent more time training and less time reading this thread…..

A significant turbo session happend in my lunch hour

You dont need that much protein, maybe 50g per day, the people who say other wise curiously also sell protein.

And you have the magic formulae? Please enlighten me!

Well no, as I neither know who you are or what you get up to. But if you already know that by race day you’ll be up to 3.8 W/Kg or so, then why worry so much? As obviously one or both sides of the equation are going to start moving the right way.

FFS, he asked why his body fat isn’t going down, not if he’s training enough.

For the majority of people there’s a clear correlation, that’s why it’s being suggested. Total time training in this case isn’t a lot.

For the majority of people there’s a clear correlation, that’s why it’s being suggested.

+1

Not that he has a clue what his BF is if he’s using those daft scales…..

Not that he has a clue what his BF is if he’s using those daft scales…..

Whilst this has become clear (calipers arrive tomorrow), this

For the majority of people there’s a clear correlation, that’s why it’s being suggested. Total time training in this case isn’t a lot.

Is a bit muddied; Lets remember I am losing weight (7lb since 25th December) yes less calories and my training have worked, but my question was based on the scales not showing a body fat % reduction, not the lack of a weight reduction.

A measure which I now understand thanks to the help of people here, to be invalid with the mechanism I am using.

Please remember I’ve gone from 77KG to 74KG in 4.5 weeks.

not to get into the whole long steady miles vs hiit stuff
done a fair bit of CPET testing on athletes and myself and other coaches and in z2(h/rate ) the some of the best i have seen
in terms of energy supply is 70%from fats 30% from carbs most being around 60/40 or less .
so if you training a lot in higher zones that is a lot of energy coming from carbs and not fat….
those figures are unique to each individual and a view into how ‘efficient’ they are
hope that helps

But if you already know that by race day you’ll be up to 3.8 W/Kg or so, then why worry so much

Because wouldn’t we all like our number to be higher, eh?

Because wouldn’t we all like our number to be higher, eh?

Yes of course we would, but if you’ve maxed out your training time and there’s a lower limit to your body fat which is achievable on that time, then there comes a point where you have to accept your level and get on with it.
None of us on here are going to be world champions, are we?

soobalias – Member
if he spent more time training and less time reading this thread…..

LS – Member
For the majority of people there’s a clear correlation, that’s why it’s being suggested. Total time training in this case isn’t a lot.

No, and, errr, no. As we all know, you can’t out-exercise a bad diet.

I’ll try again. If someone wants to burn more fat, then it may be worth while getting to understand what drives fat storage. while also considering how and why fat is released for use.

Lean people can be unfit. Fit people can be chubby. Soooo, perhaps we could:

a) not rely on exercise to mitigate poor diet.

b) address the issue of body fat reduction or lack of, and stop sniping at the OP for not exercising enough.

OP has already explained how time crunched they are. So perhaps lets discuss BF reduction, within those constraints.

And as for the anecdotal advise. It may have worked for you, but that doesn’t guarantee the OP the same results.

wilburt – Member

You dont need that much protein, maybe 50g per day, the people who say other wise curiously also sell protein

That is the protien intake for anaverage person though. From the wonders of the internet: “A sedentary person needs to eat about 0.8g of protein per kg of body mass each day. Athletes, and people who want to build muscle, need about double this (1.2 – 1.7g of protein/kg of body mass)”
[google lifted from abc.com.au]

So personally, if I was doing minimal amounts I’d need 48g, but as I’m training, taking the middle value I’d need ~87g. Even with a protein bar a day (which i dont eat) that suggests I’d need more protein.

You dont need that much protein, maybe 50g per day, the people who say other wise curiously also sell protein

Good luck training for racing eating that little protein a day, your thighs would just shrink month on month…

I’m not sniping, if anything I’m trying to stop the OP getting too hung up on something that it’s quite easy to take too far to the extreme (I’ve been there).
The performance limit that the OP will hit is likely to come from his training restrictions well before his body fat, and if he’s doing intense intervals then trying to do both at the same time can be a knife-edge.

LS – Member

The performance limit that the OP will hit is likely to come from his training restrictions well before his body fat, and if he’s doing intense intervals then trying to do both at the same time can be a knife-edge.

Most probably. But if OP is wondering why they are not experiencing the expected BF loss, then I’d suggest “more exercise” isn’t the correct answer without addressing changes in diet to compliment the OP’s regime.

Everyone wants to get best results for least input. If someone is max’d out for time available to exercise. Then that’s how it is.

Already been mentioned but nutritional Ketosis & riding in a fasted state for body fat loss.

We have the Withings scales. My stick thin, healthy, fell running, 9 year old measures about 80% fat, she’s a human pork scratching.

Judging by the skin over her sixpack, I’d guess she’s basically zero fat!

The scales are indeed… bobbins

Everyone wants to get best results for least input. If someone is max’d out for time available to exercise. Then that’s how it is.

Already been mentioned but nutritional Ketosis & riding in a fasted state for body fat loss.

This is pretty much the point I’m trying to make – fasted rides and all that work, but if there’s limited time available and that time is taken up by interval training, then it’ll be very hard to fit in without dropping something that probably gives a higher performance gain.

There are times – and I was already asking in the Trainerroad thread – when I may be able to drop in a fasted Z2 turbo session on “rest” days, something which I’ll start to implement – in fact I’ve got one tomorrow morning at 6am. This was to get more bike time in.

FWIW I’m likely to end up 500cals under target today after a 700 cal turbo session and I feel stuffed after 3 wholemeal pitta’s, 1 pot of low fat houmous and a soy protien isolate shake for lunch.

This mornings breakfast was 45g of oats with semi skimmed milk.

LS – Member
This is pretty much the point I’m trying to make

then it’ll be very hard to fit in without dropping something that probably gives a higher performance gain.

Ah, ok, I see where you’re coming from now. I was focusing more on the fat loss Q, as opposed to improving performance.
🙂

and I feel stuffed after 3 wholemeal pitta’s

Try quitting the bread, it’s not doing you any favours.

The scales are indeed… bobbins

… Not designed for stick thin 9 year old fell runners who might be considered a bit niche (if actually somewhat cool:) )

Already been mentioned but nutritional Ketosis & riding in a fasted state for body fat loss.

Hmm. But then again.. does that result in reduced base metabolic rate over time?

On your daily protein requirements, you need far more than needed by a standard person! At least the amount recommended for athletes, ideally more, as a high protein diet helps reduce muscle loss when you’re trying to lose fat.

Also, why soy protein shakes? You’re obviously not vegan, so why are you choosing a protein powder that isn’t as effective as whey or casein? Ideally, a whey/casein mix is the one.

Agreed on cutting out most of the carbs with very little other nutritional value, eg your bread. Just a waste.

Get your protein, carbs etc. from proper food not manky shakes. Jacket potato and tuna can be done in a microwave minutes.

Ans unless you have specific issues, then bread really isn’t the devil some people now make it out to be.