Sorry but what’s wrong with a final salary scheme? It’s run well and independently and it’s closer to 40years contributions.

The most common remark made with regards to Bob Crow since his death was announced has been his unwavering commitment to his members, something which everybody seems to agree with. And yet what motivated him went far beyond simply the narrow interests of RMT members. He had a commitment to ordinary working people, and yes, that includes the traveling public. He didn’t see any conflict at all between the interests of transport workers and the wider public.

Obviously his day job was general secretary of RMT, a job which he did well, but he was also deeply engaged in the wider struggle to achieve greater social justice. Politically I would say that not much more than a fag paper separated me and Bob Crow, he was certainly the person I admired most out of Britain’s trade unionists and politicians.

For me he was a totally straight talking bloke who refreshingly, unlike so many politicians, never used weasel words or avoided saying exactly what he thought.

I heard him speak on several occasions in fairly small meetings and he was by far the funniest speaker I have ever heard from the Labour Movement, something which never quite got translated in his TV appearances.

Another characteristic of Bob Crow was his commitment to, and his understanding of the need for, working class unity. And as such he was deeply anti-sectarian, what unites us was far more important to him than what divides us. Sadly for far too many in the movement ‘ideological correctness’ is paramount as was wonderfully satirised in the Life of Brian. This commitment led Bob Crow to for example be perfectly happy to work with Trots, something which he clearly wasn’t.

And since inevitably Bob Crow’s salary has popped up it’s worth remembering that the head of Transport for London, Peter Hendy, receives more than 4 times more than that. The difference, apart from the obvious numerical one of course, is that both Bob Crow’s job and his salary required the approval of RMT’s members, ie, it was subject to democratic approval, whilst on the other hand Londoners have little input concerning how much the head of Transport for London receives.

Plus of course unlike Bob Crow most people haven’t heard of Peter Hendy.

Well said Ernie.

Haven’t read all the posts, but spotted at least one that inferred that Bob Crow was responsible for taking the tube workers out on strike, the workers went on strike because a majority of those that voted, voted to strike, Bob was the public figure head for the union but ultimately it was the ordinary members who voted not Bob.

I assume all you union-haters have renounced all the rights unions have successfully fought for over the years in your own jobs: sick pay, holiday pay, weekends, maternity leave, equal pay rights for women, protection from being sacked, safety standards, anti-discrimination etc etc etc?

I assume all you union-haters have renounced all the rights unions have successfully fought for over the years in your own jobs: sick pay, holiday pay, weekends, maternity leave, equal pay rights for women, protection from being sacked, safety standards, anti-discrimination etc etc etc?

Well obviously the Elite, who run the country, deserve all these benefits and the multi-million pound salary to boot. They can appreciate them without being corrupted by it. You see the real problem is the masses that can’t cope with such things, it seems to make them slovenly and quite uncompetitive. They need to be kept within 5 minutes of the bread line to be kept sufficiently motivated to work for a living.

Ernie +1

+ another

hopefully the RMT can move on with confidence – take his passion, belligerence and belief and bring the union into the modern era without the borderline Scargill tactics and spurious use of striking that made him unpopular with some.

RIP Bob – long live your legacy.

My friend that drives for the Underground, says those lined up to take over from Bob Crow
are more Militant than Bob himself

I assume all you union-haters have renounced all the rights unions have successfully fought for over the years in your own jobs: sick pay, holiday pay, weekends, maternity leave, equal pay rights for women, protection from being sacked, safety standards, anti-discrimination etc etc etc?

Not wishing to enter a political debate here but that’s flawed thinking. Yes, unions did amazing things 100 years ago, for which I am profoundly grateful, but that doesn’t mean that everything they do will always be amazing, does it?

RIP BOB

If you go on strike & people get upset, then you are probably doing a sociallly worthwhile job.. If you go on strike & nobody notices you are probably getting money under false pretences in the first place.

…says those lined up to take over from Bob Crow
are more Militant than Bob himself

Yep, the Tory press after years of denouncing Bob Crow as some sort of extremist are now casting him as more of a moderate.

His body is barely cold and already headlines like this have started appearing in the Tory press :

Bob Crow: fears over ‘radical’ union members poised to fill vacuum at RMT

Another source said: “Bob Crow was essentially a moderate in RMT terms.”

Of course the RMT is unlikely to change dramatically as the result of Bob Crow’s death. Leaders of organisation like the RMT tend to very much reflect the political makeup of that organisation. Bob Crow would not have been successful in becoming general secretary of the RMT had he not had substantial backing from like minded people.

The next general secretary of RMT is unlikely to be quite such a colourful character as Bob Crow but I suspect they will follow a very simular strategy.

And their character assassination by the Tory press has already started……before someone has even been chosen ! 🙂

Blimey, I find myself agreeing with Ernie!

What’s the first thing the telegraph does when someone has died? Think to themselves “bloody hell, how is that going to affect us ?”

Despite the fact that he has a family and friends.

At times like this it seems that the worst motives in people are exposed.

Someone has died, surely the respectful thing to do is to at least wait a couple of days before wading in?

A man of conviction. Unfortunately his extreme Marxist ideology will live on. RIP Mr Crow.

At times like this it seems that the worst motives in people are exposed.

Someone has died, surely the respectful thing to do is to at least wait a couple of days before wading in?

^This.

I can’t say that I saw eye to eye with Bob Crow on many issues, but the above is the most sensible thing I’ve read in a long time.

I too, have not followed Bob Crow closely, however seems to have had the backing of those he represents and appears to have been very capable at his work. That is good enough for me. Shame he was too young.

Not wishing to enter a political debate here but that’s flawed thinking. Yes, unions did amazing things 100 years ago, for which I am profoundly grateful, but that doesn’t mean that everything they do will always be amazing, does it?

That’s a particularly poor straw man, even by your standards.

What Ernie said.

He wasn’t politically motivated in the modern sense, just looked out for the interests of the people he served.

Unfortunately, a huge amount of the motivation by politicians these days is to serve only themselves and not their constituents. Is it any wonder the political system in this country has been broken for such a long time? We need more Bob crows.

Not wishing to enter a political debate here but that’s flawed thinking. Yes, unions did amazing things 100 years ago, for which I am profoundly grateful, but that doesn’t mean that everything they do will always be amazing, does it?

Not so profoundly grateful as we are giving away those rights our forefathers fought for in the quest to be as self serving as those in parliament.

I can’t stand these threads in which people show up to say “I disagreed with everything X ever did and hated their vile music/politics/single speeds but GAWD BLESS YOU RIP ALWAYS IN OUR HEARTS”. Like – posting on the internet is futile to begin with but saying “rest in peace” is totally futile beyond drawing attention to yourself about how ostentatiously upset you are. If the dead person stood for something, they’d be happy to hear you talk about it whether you agreed with then or not. I find it hard tk believe that Bob Crow would have wanted people to stop talking about the state of unionism when he died considering he spent his career trying to get people engaged with it!

I was so appalled by this thread I had to read every page…

I like that post ^^ 😀

I can’t stand these threads in which people show up to say …….

I was so appalled by this thread I had to read every page…

Only this hasn’t been restricted to this thread/forum/the internet …… has it ?

Right across the wider media there has been an astonishing reaction to Bob Crow’s death. It goes much further than the usual respect for the recently deceased and “you mustn’t talk ill of the dead” protocol.

There appears to be genuine respect for the Bob Crow based on recognition that he was highly effective at his job and produced some outstanding results. Indeed much of this respect and recognition has come from people who didn’t necessarily agree with him on all manner of issues.

I can’t remember the last time someone’s death resulted in a simular reaction and would say that this has been fairly untypical.

It’s certainly surprised me.

There appears to be genuine respect for the Bob Crow based on recognition that he was highly effective at his job and produced some outstanding results. Indeed much of this respect and recognition has come from people who didn’t necessarily agree with him on all manner of issues.

I do so hate it when I find myself agreeing with you, Ernest. 🙂

I can’t remember the last time someone’s death resulted in a simular reaction

John Smith. And look how well that worked out for the lefties… 😉

I don’t remember John Smith being vilified by the Tory press in the way Bob Crow was.

But I guess that if you have to go back about 20 years to find an example then it kind of backs up my point.

Maybe not but it’s about the best example in vaguely recent history I can think of. It’s not 29 years though – ’94, wasn’t it?

Mind you when I heard ‘John Smith has died’, my first thought was the beer, not Shadow PM….

It’s not 29 years though – ’94, wasn’t it?

Yes. The 9 is right next to the 0 on my keyboard. It’s been corrected 🙂

It reminds me of a statement Tony Wilson made when he was dying of cancer, shortly before his death:

“the thing I can’t get used to is all the people who thought I was a **** are now saying really nice things about me”

I reckon with Bob Crow, a lot of people are saying nice things, while inside breathing a hearty sigh of relief, then tempered with a nagging worry about who’s coming next. One things for sure, I reckon whoever gets it, it’ll be as much 2 fingers to the labour party as the Tories. I imagine Bob wasn’t alone in his contempt for the present labour party, such as it is

binners – Member

“the thing I can’t get used to is all the people who thought I was a **** are now saying really nice things about me”

I think a lot of people’s issues with Bob Crow just came from him being a formidable adversary- as someone said, a lot of the reasons for disliking him were the same as the reasons for liking him, the only difference is where you were standing. So that leaves a lot of room for respect and admiration, it’s just harder to express that when the person’s ruining your day.

you’re forgetting that the people who are surprising you with their sentiment are the same who you would chastise for their dishonesty and penchant for miscommunication and spin; those who are told what to say.

having said that, he may have been hard-arsed and belligerent but I don’t believe he was vindictive or particularly spiteful (unless Boris was involved) – he was the loveable rogue and will be exalted.

But I guess that if you have to go back about 20 years to find an example then it kind of backs up my point.

Best example I can think of was when Michael Foot died. There was similar bi-partisan respect for him, and a similar sense of regret in the ‘if only there were more like him’ point of view. Funny how these sort of sentiments tend to only surface when a figure on the left departs, rather than the right. When the day comes, I doubt many will be saying ‘I wish there were more like Norman Tebbit in the world’.

A person is not defined by their professional stance. Surely you can appreciate that? I can argue with someone at work all day long, but I can still respect them and like them. Or not.

It’s also perfectly possible to disagree with a particular action like say calling a strike, without it becoming personal. For example, I may dislike the English rugby team intensely at times, but it would still be tragic if they all died in a plane crash.

I find it frustrating when people can’t separate a person from their actions. They aren’t the same, because you usually do not know the chain of reasoning leading up to those actions.

That’s a particularly poor straw man, even by your standards.

You’ll have to explain why you thought that was a straw man.

dazh – Member

Best example I can think of was when Michael Foot died. There was similar bi-partisan respect for him

The Mail’s obituary was titled “An incurable romantic (Pity he was wrong about everything)”. So maybe not so much.

I may dislike the English rugby team intensely at times, but it would still be tragic if they all died in a plane crash.

It sounds like you’ve actually thought that through Molls. I’m suspecting you may be reclining now, whimsically visualising the screaming fireball, with a look of quiet satisfaction on your face 😯

I was surprised to see you refer to Crow coming from the “Labour Movement”, Ernie. Miliband came put with the same line yesterday too. I was under the impression that Crow (and if I’m not presuming too much, similarly you, certainly in recent history) had never been a member of the Labour party.

He was certainly part of the labour (small “l) movement, and I can believe one of the funniest orators to come out of it too, but I doubt he had much good to say about the Labour party, let alone pay direct subs to it 🙂 . Again, much like you Ernie.

but I doubt he had much good to say about the Labour party

The only person who has been complementary towards Labour recently is Tony Blair, which just shows how far they have drifted from their roots….

I was under the impression that Crow (and if I’m not presuming too much, similarly you, certainly in recent history) had never been a member of the Labour party.

“The Labour Movement” does not refer to the Labour Party. It refers to the movement which represents the organised working class, ie, trade unions, co-ops, socialist societies, and the Labour Party. Something which you clearly understand Stoner as you go on to confirm it in your second paragraph !

And yes like me Bob Crow only ever held affiliated membership of the Labour Party, he never held individual membership. And yes we were both in the (defunct) CPGB at the same time. We also both ended up rejecting the CP/Morning Star line of unconditional support for the Labour Party. Your presumptions are correct 🙂

A person is not defined by their professional stance.

But no-one here knows anything much more about Bob Crow than what he did at work, so the faux-mourning in respect of his life behind his professional stance is even more pointless!

the faux-mourning

Except there hasn’t been any of that has there ?

Unless I’ve missed it, all there’s been is some people have suggested that Bob Crow was something of a colourful character who did his job well, and that perhaps it would be good if there was a few more like him.

I can’t see that there’s been any expressions of mourning, real or otherwise.