It does look a bit shit though. And as a parent of a child that would be target market it doesn’t look like a good option to take him to, the course doesn’t have the tables, rollers or minor steps that he can use to develop on. It has a big ditch full of spiky rocks and there appear to be poor sight lines and lines that feed you into it or off the far edge.

A good blue is fun to ride for anyone and that comes from good trail design, take the blues at Glentress, NyA or BPW. They have tables that beginners can roll, intermediates can learn on and good riders can fly, the speed is regulated by the trail but can also be generated from it and there is good flow.

Yup, getting back to the actual point:

GavinB, I rode it with a view to take my kids and/or teenage nephews. The prospect of them panicking and running off or falling trail into large piles of rocks was a big worry. More than once I spotted places where sight lines are poor even at low speeds.
I would not take inexperienced riders down it, it’s still a high mountain environment and a long long way to get them to safety if the worst happens.

It has a big ditch full of spiky rocks and there appear to be poor sight lines and lines that feed you into it or off the far edge.

My daughter is more than capable of riding a blue, as is my wife. Would I **** take either of them down that as is.

Have flat corners by all means but the run offs shouldn’t be full of boulders. Sight lines are another issue that seem to come up regularly. If this was another kids vs council thread folk would be quite rightly saying that’s dangerous and needs sorting before anyone gets hurt.

Maybe the reason so many true blue riders rate it is from a position of ignorance? Experience is one of those things you only get after you really need it.

I like Mctrail Riders videos but I think he rushed to ride that for the video views

Well of course he did. What’s wrong with that? He’s one of the most viewed and respected MTB choobers commenting on the most exciting development in UK uplift in years. MTB choober in MTB choobing shocker!

and he should have stopped and had a wee think before he called it shit.

He clearly did think. He was obviously greatly conflicted about what to actually say, and I think he did it extremely well.

That’s not constructive criticism and if he’s going to criticise the trail builders he should take a more considered approach

Rubbish. It was constructive. He mentioned Limited workforce, he mentioned tight timescales, he mentioned the great bit at the bottom, he mentioned that it’ll probably bed in and get better , he mentioned that it’ll get tweaked.

Would you prefer it if he just did a standard gushing “it’s awesome ” response?
Why, what’s the point?
There’s no point in doing reviews if everything gets a 9 or a 10.

Would you prefer it if he just did a standard gushing “it’s awesome ” response?
Why, what’s the point?
There’s no point in doing reviews if everything gets a 9 or a 10.

Compare and contrast with the thread on why is all MTB journalism rubbish. Here you have someone (admittedly non-journo) giving a genuine view which is fairly heavily caveated and they get pilloried for it.

A lot of people really like McTraileRider here

I’d just like to say that the fact that he called it “shit” is a major reason I like McTrailrider. I don’t feel he said it lightly. If he really felt it was worthy of that accolade, that says a lot to me.

But I’d hate for someone to think it’s fairly rubbish but tell us all it “fine”.

I took my boys (10 & 8) this Saturday just gone. They loved it. I think it is good (not ideal, or perfect, but good nevertheless) for younger and less experienced riders. I didn’t see anyone who ticked these boxes not enjoying themselves. My lads managed 4 runs, probably enjoying Blue Steel and Wild Goat more, but they liked the top section too.

Yes, there are quite a few rocks lying around, but this is 600m up on a mountainside. There are lots of rocks. There were also lots of rocks at Laggan on Sunday. There are couple of magnetic ditches too, but this will be addressed as the trail beds in and the line(s) of choice become apparent.

I rode the Black as fast as I could followed by the Blue fast as I could. I survived the Black and almost drifted off the trail a couple of times on the Blue, but this was rider error as much as trail design.

Overall the style of trail is not my cup-of-tea. I prefer more singletracky trails, but I would have been more bored if had been the formulaic berm-berm-tabletop-berm type of trail.

I think the arrival of the Blue is a good thing. There are opportunities to add variants in a few places to add challenge and variety, whilst maintaining an accessible core trail. Now they just need a handful of Reds, and a couple more Blues and Blacks, interlinking in a way that gives variety and progression whilst allowing for closure of sections for maintenance. cf. Whistler…

Rode top chief at the weekend (been 12 years since I rode it and forgot just how good it was) and a mate and his wife did the blue. They both said it was fine but needs finishing. Aslo a few too many hero’s flying down it with not enough regard for others.

The lecture at the window about folk being airlifted off set i think a bad tone and maybe got some people anxious about the trail anyway even more nervous. I did however see a massively wide range of bikes getting the gondola up, all the ususal monsters but lots of hardtails and xc looking bikes and a lot of folk looked far more on the beginner stage of the scale. This is great and brill to see so many folk enjoying it.

Have to say Nevis was mobbed, busiest I have ever seen it bar bluebird snow days.

Hopefully they now realise the massive market here, build a red and link in more of the excellent trails at the bottom of the trail and also a dedicated green my toddlers can ride, which would be very welcome.

The 34 quid to ride up a couple of times is not cheap, but if you do 5 runs over the course of the day it works out not too bad.

this thread makes me laugh

Its claimed on it that its too easy and too dangerous !

Its claimed on it that it’s too easy and too dangerous !

And your point is what?

That if some think its too easy and some think it too dangerous then its probably about right

Really enjoyed it when I rode it a couple of weeks back; there is a few sections which could be improved, but for the most part, it’s a bloody good 1st draft; and not nearly as shit as some folk whose livelihood depends on people going on youtube looking to be inspired to ride non uplifted trails in the wilderness might have you believe.

As a trailbuilder myself, I’m aware of time and budget constraints which mean you rarely achieve exactly what you want and looking at the scale of what they’ve built, I consider it an impressive achievement; if you’re a timid rider, just finding their feet, you shouldn’t go too far wrong; big rocks are often used as a visual aid (or ‘choke’) as the primal fear they instill is generally pretty handy for slowing riders down to a safer pace… at the other end of the scale, if you’re giving it beans, you can get some real schweet hooligan drifts in some of the turns just after the pedally bit (although I ended up riding chainless most of the day when I was there).

I can see why people might prefer a singletrack trail, but it’s probably worth doing a bit of deduction and reading between the lines here; let’s not forget, the Macavalanche, a mass start race involving a lot of overtaking has recently moved venue from Glencoe to Nevis range…

tjagain
Full Member

Its claimed on it that its too easy and too dangerous !

Those aren’t 2 points on a scale. Take it to extremes, an easy trail on a clifftop is dangerous, the exact same trail in a field is safer.

Haven’t ridden it yet- will be up in 2 days so these are more general observations. Lots of stuff can make a trail more dangerous- death spikes on trees, rocks in fall zones, bad sightlines, things that trick the brain into going in the wrong direction, etc etc. And from the videos there does look to be a few places where people are pretty likely to crash sooner or later, that have hazards in. Big Rock In Ditch. Obviously you shouldn’t be in the ditch, but sooner or later someone will be and when they do, there shouldn’t be a big rock in it.

That if some think its too easy and some think it too dangerous then its probably about right

Difficulty ( or lack of easiness) and danger are not the same thing. Something can be easy but dangerous.

Basically what northwind said.

What Northwood said, absolutely.

I found it fun but not stellar. There are a couple of places where the “sight lines” (if i understand that term) are poor to the point of “major pisser” if you are travelling at speed and you get things wrong.

The surface “needs” to bed in and braking bumps are developing – ATM it would be fun on a H/T but I could envision the braking bumps getting to a point they buck off the novice/unprepared.

Mrs Baron reckoned it was a “blue DH” grade, implying it isn’t a blue as per a trail centre – the opportunity for a ride in a red and white flying ambulance is greater – some folks might think blue=blue.

I thought the signage could be improved – you seem to have to go back up a bit to join or start one of the other blue tracks (the trail doesn’t go all the way to the car park in a single trail).

Edge case: Mrs Baron suffers from Mr Baron some form of motion sickness – she only managed one run before she felt as sick as a dog. This has occurred once before on a push-iron; on the new Cannock Chase blue.

It’s gondola fed, and drops around 500m in height. Do you want a great big sign telling you it’s a DH?.

We’ve argued gradings to death over the years, I’m not gonna keep that you going, if you don’t like it, fair enough, of it’s too much, don’t go, I’m just happy we have more options.

It’s not as DH as you might think, and it’s absolutely not what most people would consider a DH track. Sure it descends, but so does Berm Baby Berm. There’s even pedally points, you definitely don’t want a DH bike for it.
But it’s also a rubbish trail and feels completely unfinished, so it’s unsafe for totally different reasons.

Why do places like the french pyranees have such great blue trails by comparison. Is it simply more tourist traffic so more viable? Or are highlands too rocky. Or what?

My take after 4 runs down…

It’s got a couple of borderline dangerous corners if you’re at speed.

It’s got a few ‘what is going on?’ corners with berms in wrong place or a series of corners with berms followed by one without.

It gets more fun the lower you go, and after a couple of runs.

The repairs are going to be an ongoing challenge for them.

Amazing to see such a variety of people out riding bikes 😎

I still prefer Top Chief above the woods and Happy Ending (an amazing trail).

And to add:

It’s a damn expensive family day out.

I’m not sure I will rush back, there is other riding I enjoy.

McTrail riders summary is right in my view

I met a guy the other day who works there and I mentioned some of the comments I had heard. He said they wanted it for famillies to ride and therefore didn’t want people riding it “at speed”.

I’ll add my view having taken my 8 year old daughter on it last week. Firstly, GREAT to see the place so busy even on a week when not many schools were off. The weather had been pretty foul so I was interested to see what state it was in.
My daughter is an average rider, certainly not hung ho and can be a bit timid. She rides down at Glentress a fair bit and is happy on the blues and a bit of the red there.
She found the top section which I assume was last built a bit scary – it’s very loose in places and just needs ridden in. For context I’ve done a bit of trail building and done an IMBA course back in the day so always look quite critically at what’s been built. The mid section is nicely built and the section into the woods is the most cohesive. Signage needs improved down there though. My daughter enjoyed the lower 1/2 and did not enjoy the top half. It’s neither a flow trail nor what I would call a blue trail either. It’s steep in places with some intimidating looking run offs due to the terrain. I think it’s a great asset and once bedded in will be useful but def a step up from a Glentress or similar blue at a 7 stanes so just be aware of that. I also some some properly sh1t riding and two bad crashes caused by riding too fast and missing the corner or a trail direction change. You could blame the trail but having watched one happen the rider was going too fast with not enough skill ! That one was a broken collarbone query wrist. We enjoyed ourselves and I rode it a couple of other times which was quite fun, certainly the bottom is.

He said they wanted it for famillies to ride and therefore didn’t want people riding it “at speed”.

Yet there are steeps and bigger berms…hmmm

That’s the thing, it’s neither Arfa’ nor Marfa’ is it.

I know what you mean Matt, it does sound like a reason after the fact.

Indeed, neither one or the other.

That said, it’s a great addition to Scotland’s tourist attractions, and one I think could/should be repeated elsewhere. Making the adventure and outdoors both accessible and ‘packaged up’* for visitors.

*I know, I know. The outdoors doesn’t need packaging up. But it does for some. Nature deficit and nature disengagement and all that.

I met a guy the other day who works there and I mentioned some of the comments I had heard. He said they wanted it for famillies to ride and therefore didn’t want people riding it “at speed”.

Then build a green trail. A good blue trail should have something for everyone.

I’ve just taken my 12yr old down it and he thought it was ace but did comment on the “consequences” if he were to overshoot some of those corners. There’s no way I’d take my 9yr old daughter down it. I genuinely couldn’t believe how dangerous it looked if anyone were to overshoot some of the corners nearer the top! I believe the consequences of things going wrong should be considered when designing different graded trails. Also, the sections of fence they’ve installed on the lower sections seem very close to the trail. The fence isn’t exactly well designed as the angle of some of the planks used could cause some serious injuries. Fully expect a few wee hands to be rattled off the fence at some point!

I’m far from an expert (the STW way!) but the build quality of most of the trail seems very poor. It looks like lots of mud dumped on the mountainside. How that will withstand the weather I’ve no idea. There were already some deep muddy holes developing in sections.

There will be lots of families take their inexperienced kids down it because it’s a blue but it won’t be suitable for them.

Last point – Halfway down the trail splits so you can join Top Cheif. I wonder how many folk will take a wrong turn and end up on the black. My son didn’t see the signs and headed onto the black. I’m glad I was just behind him and noticed it otherwise things might’ve been different.

Up in Fort William for the week and took a trip up to Nevis Range today. Was with the missus and the dog so didn’t get a full day on the uplift but did some pedalling then grabbed a single lift ticket for a first look at Blue Doon.

The top 1/3 is pretty lethal. So many corners where you’re on a line round then the berm/support just disappears. I’m also not sure what the trail surface was like when it first opened but it’s rough as hell now, so going slow isn’t an option as your hands get pummeled but going fast into really bizarre corners isn’t much fun.

The last 2/3 are really fun though and flow much better. The Blue Steel bit in particular is a right good bit of trail.

Just got back, thought it was shit! (For all the reasons mentioned)

The lower blue / red trails are much better built and more fun.  A real missed opportunity imo.

Sad to hear it hasn’t been fixed or improved much after a year’s maturing. Unfortunately, like others who rode it when it opened, I called it.

The older Blue Steel section is brilliant. The Doon is a mess. Shame.

Ah yeah I never followed up after I went and rode it! Aaand, it was exactly as people described it- roughly/poorly/scrappily built, a few really bad sections that guide the rider into bad situations (combinations of trail shape and vision), and totally unneccesary and IMO unacceptable fall hazards in really obviously bad places.

I’m not a good trailbuilder, though I’ve done quite a lot of it- I dig oles where I’m told and i let other people make most of the decisions about overall planning. But compare it with work we’ve done on glentress’s blues and reds and there’s absolutely no way some of this stuff would have been opened. It’d not be an impractical amount of work to sort the biggest hazards and it ought to have been done before opening day even if it meant having incomplete trail or bypasses elsewhere. It is just wrong. TBF it’s a brave or reckless manager that opens a trail like this. Time constraints have played a part but it’s not all explainable like that

OTOH a lot of it’s more pragmatic and forgivable. The surface has definitely been chosen as “build it, then fix it where it fails” which isn’t inappropriate, especially where it is, weather will be brutal on it so indestructibility isn’t really an option. The dh is actually the same in a lot of it, it’s just not so obvious because most of it’s been sorted over the years and these days you’re seeing more of the end product. There’d already been some rework but they seemed overwhelmed by it. And similarly, some things like corners that lead lots of riders into the wrong place just aren’t automatically obvious til you test ride it, and that’s OK as long as you fix it. Quite a lot of our trailfairying is like this, a specific hazard or issue arises and we go and fix it. Sometimes when we do that, it creates another one! But again they didn’t rush to fix things (there were crap fixes in some places that I’d say were making it worse). I’d hoped by now they’d have done a second pass over it and rebuilt a bunch, but nope. Maybe the worlds is putting all the attention onto the dh, maybe there was enough winter repairs that that’s all they’ve been able to do?

Overall they made an overcomplex and fiddly trail that’s going to suck up builder time and effort for a long time to come. There’s some really odd decisions- massively wide sections where it doesn’t have to be, skinny bits where it should have been wider, at least one big uphill berm right close to an undersized fast one, and some poor decisions on gradient mean that some sections are hard work while others are brakey. Mostly in the earlier part before the climb. A lot of this seemed obvious from the pics and turned out to be exactly like it looked. Everywhere that it looks really packed in, it’d have benefited from just relaxing a bit.

I really like the final descent, it’s a bit tight with the fences at times for a blue (and man that’s a LOT of fences) but I really enjoyed it, I got to the point where I was getting 4/5ths of all the grins on the bit down into the wood, and treating quite a lot of the first section as just the commute. It’s generally better built, better planned. And then the older blue after, is it blue steel? Is absolutely superb.

So it’s a disappointment, sure, and it’s all avoidable stuff, just bad decision making and sorry, a lack of competence. Some bad decisions at a command level, some right down to the guys with shovels.

BUT- I also spoke to a load of people, rather than just being Mr Big Enduro Bike Rider, and most people were having a great time. There’s a specific group that it seems to cater really well to, the “just sort of trundle down it and see what happens”, and I spoke to families that had done 2 or 3 runs and called it a day but importantly were really happy with that because each run was the equivelant of a normal day out on bikes. I spoke to one group that looked like they were just barely hanging on but again, having a good time. It’d be easy to assume as a more experienced rider that these guys would be having a bad time but I think I only spoke to 2 people all day that were. There were all ages, all shapes and sizes. So that was working.