how about we go for a ride?

No thank you.

You sure? I think we would get along famously 😀

Or is my neurotic displacement disturbing you? 😉

loum – Member

Am I right in understanding this,
that someone who doesn’t believe in the soul and believes that they don’t have one, is taking offence at being described as soulless?

The intention of the proposer is to level an accusation of being somehow a “lesser” person than are they, because they possess a “soul”, and I do not.

I take offense at the attempt to belittle, couched in the belittler’s terms. Not the terminology itself, which is as vapid as the “philosophy” that is being touted.

Fair enough. I’ve removed my comment now anyway.

1. The cathexis – an object of desire
2. The will to extend oneself for the purpose of nuturing one’s own or another’s spiritual and personal growth

I’ll let you work out which one I endeavour to live by.

Given your chosen nickname is slackalice.. is it the first one? 😉

slackalice – Member

how about we go for a ride?

No thank you.

You sure?

Positive.

Given your chosen nickname is slackalice.. is it the first one?

😆

Northwind – Member
Regretably there is no alternative to a Religious belief system that gives kids moral guidance and sets boundaries.
And yes, this is incredible cobblers.

Ironically, despite not being at all religious, and coming from an irreligious family, I’ve ended up with a fairly “christian” set of morals. Reason being, they mostly make sense, which is why they’re shared with most other religions. And the reason for that, is that religions don’t create morals- they coopt them.

Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness
Thou shalt not covet

Not a trace of religion in that. And the rest is basically copy protection.

Interesting quotes, who said that and why should it be true?

I can’t stand evangelical Atheists any more than the the other sort.

There is no proof, we can argue all day, but the fact remains, even for those allegedly claiming faith we are agnostic, like it or not.

As to the bringing up kids thing you need to have done it a few times to get it, once they stop believing in Father Christmas (yet still hang those stockings up) they get it and the whole God hypocrisy thing, but it keeps them in line, they ‘get’ right from wrong, which unfortunately in this day and age fewer and fewer folk do, so give me the Catholic method over the hand wringing lefty liberal way any day.

Now folk using their ‘God’ to justify wholesale slaughter or to swear themselves in to another parliamentary session so they can renege on their election promises whilst fiddling their expenses, their rules? Sorry they don’t count, so if Cougar could just absolutely prove to me beyond all reasonable doubt that shooting that bastard bank manager of mine in the head is not going to impact on any future condemnation of a lifetime here, I’d like to hear about it, because there are a couple of other types that have it coming…

“If you want robust discussion on controversial subjects, let’s have one.”

No thanks

“If you want to express hurt because your holy flower of universal love has been tarnished by the nasty man who seems impervious to being moved by the universal spirit of one-ness, stay away. That’s my advice, anyway.”

And I’ll pass on taking the advice of a “nasty man” thanks. How do feel about calling yourself that by the way? Not sure many would like to be known as nasty?

“I take offense at the attempt to belittle” … Do unto others wopptit do unto others …. Luke 6:31

Edit… Not sure Luke actually knew you.

And I’ll pass on taking the advice of a “nasty man” thanks. How do feel about calling yourself that by the way?

Allow me to enlighten you – the phrase “nasty man” is a reference to how you seem to view me, not a self-description.

Luke 6:31 Oh the ironing. 🙄

Allow me to enlighten you

You’re aware that you’ve belittled someone’s belief and are now belittling someone else, right? While, at the same time, taking offence that you have been belittled. Also, you’ve ignored my questions, while claiming to simply want an intelligent discussion.
What’s up with that?

WOWZER! There are a fair few “Bloody Athiests” on posting here! You question why some athiests are so angry, especially in the UK, and certain athiests are start mouthing off. It reminds me of when you ask more evangelical religious people questions that cause them to think about their beliefs! And 5 pages in 4 hrs with constant reminders of past discussions of the same arguments… there really is no difference between a militant athiest and a young Earth creationist’esq beleiver when trying to discuss certain topics.
Don’t be mad at religious people or even some religious leaders for trying to impose their beliefs on other people, that’s what their books tell them to do. Be mad at the politicians that let them get away with it.
I’m trying to find out why some athiests (maybe you are or maybe your not) still get angry at some random plumber who goes to a local church and believes 2000ya in the middle east a man who some people claimed he said he was the son of a god and was born of a virgin and pretty much said we should all get along and he wishes to live a life simalar too that? Why does that bother some people so much that they have to speak up against it with such hostility and claim he his a delusional fool. Militant athiests tar every religious person with the same brush as the most extreme example of the most hostile religions.

igrf – Member

Interesting quotes, who said that and why should it be true?

Er, I was quoting you. Unless you mean the 10 Commandments? That was quoting God.

Edit: got the poster wrong and went off on a tangent and frankly this has gotten tedious. As usual.

I should know better, really.

And that’s why I’m out.

There is no proof, we can argue all day, but the fact remains, even for those allegedly claiming faith we are agnostic, like it or not.

Militant agnosticism. Like +1 😉

if Cougar could just absolutely prove to me beyond all reasonable doubt that shooting that bastard bank manager of mine in the head is not going to impact on any future condemnation of a lifetime here, I’d like to hear about it, because there are a couple of other types that have it coming…

I’m not sure I understand the question. You’re saying that if you weren’t a Catholic, you’d be a serial killer?

Religion the most successful money making/ marketing scam of all time.

I’m trying to find out why some athiests (maybe you are or maybe your not) still get angry at some random plumber who goes to a local church and believes 2000ya in the middle east a man who some people claimed he said he was the son of a god and was born of a virgin and pretty much said we should all get along and he wishes to live a life simalar too that? Why does that bother some people so much that they have to speak up against it with such hostility and claim he his a delusional fool.

If only it were that simple. I don’t think many people would argue with what the supposed chap is supposed to have said, it all seems very laudable. However, it’s when they build an organisation around it that becomes hugely wealthy and powerful, which then starts to force people into behaving as they say because that’s how they interpret what the supped bloke has supposedly said.

They can worship the devil, Odin or any other deity[ or deities] they choose for all i care as long as it has no impact on anyone else

I’m an atheist (that does not exclusively define who I am, just like being a mountain biker does not define all of who I am).

Morality does not come from God(s)- morality does not derive from doing what a higher power tells you to (as the WWII Nazi trials demonstrated.)

However,

Anyone can believe in whatever God(s) what they want. I personally can’t understand why people fall for this BS, but then again some people think golf is fun.

But:-

Their beliefs are not protected form ridicule – there must be no blasphemy laws, no protection form ridicule about a particular belief system (protection from discrimination, of course).

Their beliefs do not protect them from the law. (Circumcision male or female, beating, killing your child because God told you to, refusing healthcare to employees, paying taxes, discriminating against people on grounds of race, gender, colour, sexual orientation, disability).

Religion cannot and must not define the law. I don’t think we need to look at many theocracies past or present to see that it’s generally a bad idea. Separation of church ad state should be absolute.

If all religions/religious people did that, there would be no ‘angry atheists’

But that is not how the world currently is, so some people feel a need to try and change that. I think you’ll find that many people who have striven to overturn injustice, bigotry and immorality have got a bit shouty from time to time.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o[/video]

…..but He loves you!

I’m an atheist (that does not exclusively define who I am, just like being a mountain biker does not define all of who I am).

My point is just that:
The vast majority of religious people cannot be defined by a) the most extreme cases of the worst examples of a minority who practice harmful rituals of other religions, and b) many don’t define themselves by their beliefs of the afterlife and what influences those beliefs. Some people just so happen to find themselves being born in an environment where christians- for example are the majority and concepts such as morality and the afterlife heavily influence their thinking. In such cases when they are asked what religion they belong to or if they believe in a god they say christian as default. It is wrong to say all religious people are delusional, wife beating, slave loving, child killing, skin wearing, racist, fascist, dogmatic, science devouring, delusional bleepers who are a drain on society.

If all religions/religious people did that, there would be no ‘angry atheists’

And if all atheists realised that then there wouldn’t be no ‘angry atheists’. Just as it is wrong to say all atheists are the same in their beliefs about morality it is wrong to assume all religious people are the same nor are all christians or muslims or whatever.

Saying that I would argue that all fools are fools though…

p.s. I’m not calling anyone a fool 😆

25% of Britons believe in creationism.
50% of Americans too.

Really.
Have a think about that.

In the UK, bishops sit in the House of Lords, the head of state is also the head of the state church, you can’t get into some state schools if you weren’t baptised in the right religion, evangelical christians fund some academy schools and intelligent design might be appearing on the curriculum.

Just a wee correction to point out; that’s all for England (and Wales, I suppose), not UK.
The bishops are CofE, so no Church of Scotland influence in House of Lords (or Catholic, for that matter). Church of Scotland was heavily involved in the devolution movement, but has no constitutional role in the Scottish parliament, as far as I am aware.
Queen is head of CofE only.
We do unfortunately have denominational schools in Scotland, but I know that some non Catholics do attend them, so not totally exclusive. Still a divisive system, in my opinion, and I would prefer to see explicitly secular education.
I don’t believe there is any chance of Evangelical creationists influencing the Scottish education system.

25% of Britons believe in creationism.
50% of Americans too.

Really.
Have a think about that.
I’m thinking where are those figures from and I am very sceptical that they are true reflection.

Still a divisive system, in my opinion, and I would prefer to see explicitly secular education.

So would I but I don’t see why this would make someone angry towards all religious people. If it does then I would argue all fools and all that…

I’m thinking where are those figures from and I am very sceptical that they are true reflection

THIS Americans are much much dimmer than figure suggests 😉

I’m thinking where are those figures from and I am very sceptical that they are true reflection.

Well, if you do a bit of research you’ll find these figures confirmed by both religious and secular sources.

Regretably there is no alternative to a Religious belief system that gives kids moral guidance and sets boundaries.

Buddhism? IIRC, it’s a belief system based on the advancement of one’s spiritual growth by doing good? As good a system to work with, I’d have thought.
Slackalice, my own personal belief system probably doesn’t differ too much from yours, as it happens, so I would probably find myself being sniped at by Woppit, being his usual self. Thank God he’s gone! 😉

Well, if you do a bit of research you’ll find these figures confirmed by both religious and secular sources.

As you seemed to have already have done the research and lets pretend I have done none then please provide one source from a secular source and one from a religious source that confirms this statement. Also lets assume these figures are correct why does this make you feel any hostility towards all religious people? If you don’t what was the reason for posting the figures?

Buddhism is inside the religious umbrella so it is hardly an alternative to religious belief

Well, if you do a bit of research you’ll find these figures confirmed by both religious and secular sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism#United_Kingdom
A 2010 Angus Reid poll found that “In Britain, two-thirds of respondents (68%) side with evolution while less than one-in-five (16%) choose creationism.
A subsequent 2010 YouGov poll on the Origin of Humans found that 9% opted for creationism, 12% intelligent design, 65% evolutionary theory and 13% didn’t know.[59]

Regretably there is no alternative to a Religious belief system that gives kids moral guidance and sets boundaries.

There is:
Mary don’t steel Joseph’s handy many chisels.
why not daddy
Because it is not very nice. how would you feel if Joe took your barbie doll from you, it wouldn’t be very nice would it?
no daddy 😳
So before you take someone elses toys think how sad it would make you feel if someone took your toys.
Essentially it’s the Golden Rule, treat others how you wish to be treated everything will fall into place.

As I say to my 3 year old and we also say “Olivia you must share, sharing is caring.”

Buddhism is inside the religious umbrella so it is hardly an alternative to religious belief

Buddhists don’t derive their morality from an outside source, and also this demonstrates the problem I have with angry atheists who umbrella all religious people the same.

Angry atheist “he is a religious person therefore a stupid person who is hindering the progress of science and mankind”

Me, “Really…? The Dali Lama?”

Some scared people hate religion to help them put order into their world.

I may have to call alanis morrisette again.

I get your point re Buddhism being unlike christian religions but it remains a fact that it is a religion. Its morality is external in the sense it comes from Dharma [teachings] and from the Buddha
Given the importance placed on no self i doubt they would say it [ or anything much] comes from within or self.
We also have the 8 fold path of which morality [ethical conduct]is one branch [ i forget the name [Sila from Google] with some rules etc

Granted i would rather be like the his holiness than the other one [the Pope].

Granted i would rather be like the his holiness than the other one [the Pope].

I’d be the Pope – you get a big hat and a massive house in Rome. The other fella just gets grief.

Mind you, I’m an atheist so I apparently have no moral rules to my guide my tawdry little life.

Me, “Really…? The Dali Lama?”

You may want to read up on exactly what sort of society Tibet was before you proclaim that the Dali lama is all sweetness and light. Oh and the straw man arguments really are getting very very old.

With you all the way CountZero 🙂

It’s easy to be fearful of that we don’t know.

As regards Buddhism, I tend to regard it as more of a philosophy, even though it is generally thought of as a religion. Much of my current beliefs are founded on Buddhist principles/teachings, letting go of stuff, silencing the chattering mind through observation and many more.

Mindfulness, acceptance and attitude are 3 words I came to understand and appreciate whilst working at a Buddhist Monastery in Sussex, building them a new Dhamma Hall.

The Dali Lama

Is the misspelling of “llama” part of the surreality?