Bitcoin Mining – And other Cryptocurrencies

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  • Bitcoin Mining – And other Cryptocurrencies
  • handyman153
    Member

    Evening All,

    There has been quite a lot of chat regarding BitCoin and other Cryptocurrencies in here in the past couple of months, so I thought some people might be interested in the following.

    Just a slight disclaimer before we go on, I am fully aware I am late to the game, and i’m not going to become a millionaire overnight. But I work in IT, and am lucky enough to own my own business, meaning I have got the space to play around with little ‘Projects’ as my other half calls them!

    So to begin with, there is no point ‘mining’ bitcoin anymore. It just isn’t profitable, and becomes a waste of time. Other currencies are, in my opinion, the way forward.
    I am currently mining Dash, Ethereum and Sia.

    I started off with the ‘Graphics Card’ Approach. Running the following system –
    Asrock BTC Motherboard
    8GB DDR Ram
    Intel Pentium G4400 CPU
    3 x AMD RX470 4GB Cards
    1 x AMD RX Vega 56
    1 x AMD RX Vega 64
    64GB SSD
    APC Smart UPS
    1 x 750W PSU
    1 x 450W PSU

    This was a supremely difficult build to get running, drivers are a nightmare and it kept on resetting. But I have ran now for 68 hours without a hitch.
    This system is running a very simple Claymore Dual Miner, which mines both Ethereum and now SIA.
    I did try the beginners favourite NiceHash, but found it was slow and unprofitable.
    This system drawers around 1300W from the wall, which costs around £125 per month in electricity, which is around £4 per day. And so far I have a very on and off average of £14 per day income from this set-up.
    If you ignore the mangle of cables, this is the set-up.

    However that wasn’t good enough!
    So I went away and purchase 4 Antminer D3 Asics Miners.
    This are custom built systems, designed to perform one job only! Super easy to set up, they just plugged in and worked.
    This is the set-up

    And this is the individual miner –

    Now these have only gone into action today, and are currently mining Dash coin. I can’t be sure on the returns yet, but with the current rise in this mining ‘craze’ I am counting on making my money back re-selling the systems if i need to!

    If anybody is actually interested let me know, and I will update on the earnings and any issues.

    And if anybody has any questions, feel free to email me!

    Thanks all,
    J

    eemy
    Member

    I found £1 in the street earlier. I’m not sure if it is relevant but I might buy a scone with it at work tomorrow. I don’t know if Brenda in the canteen accepts Dash coin or Ethereum but I’ll ask her.

    What does it mean to mine cryptocurrentcy? What is actually produced that has a value? If you are mining for copper, you do actual work and hopefully end up with a commodity that has a value because it is needed. How does this translate to cryptocurrentcy? Don’t get it, sounds like pie in the sky balderdash, and it only has a value cos all involved say’s it does. Can anyone explain?

    Imagine I paid you one Dash coin. That transaction is recorded in a ledger, which in turn is kept on computers all over the word, rather than a central server. Each transaction can be verified by doing some computer processing on it – if the result of that processing doesn’t match the result stored in the copy of the ledger on one of the computers, it can be said that that copy of the ledger is incorrect (has been hacked, or became corrupt) and it is then discarded. This is the blockchain and it’s how it’s kept secure.

    Now, that processing needs to come from somewhere, and this is where mining comes in. People process the computations required to keep the blockchain secure on their machines and in turn are rewarded with a new coin, once enough transactions have been processed to uncover the next one.

    At the start of a crypto-currency’s life, coins come up quite quickly, but each time it takes longer and longer to be rewarded with the next one in the sequence (there are a finite number)

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Don’t get it, sounds like pie in the sky balderdash, and it only has a value cos all involved say’s it does. Can anyone explain?

    See also diamonds and gold.

    rone
    Member

    Thanks for taking the time OP to add your story.

    I’m interested. Ignore the dildos.

    This is as relevant discussion as anything, certainly if the future of currency floats your boat.

    Politely, there is a crypto thread knocking around.

    I was wondering about the potential of using/upgrading my existing works stations to be dual purpose in the regard.

    Premier Icon seadog101
    Subscriber

    A chum at work is into all this crypto currency stuff. He just buys and sells, no mining. I feel as though I understand what it’s all about, but feel very wary of it.

    He seems to be able to make a chunk of money in the morning, and then lose it by the end of the afternoon because he wasn’t watching the multiple streams of buying and selling activity. It’s like a very very volatile stock market.

    My worry about it all is the fact that people are making (up?) money with no discernible thing to back it up. What’s going to happen when Governments and Central Banks get the feeling that there’s a lot of buying and selling going on outside of the economies they control?

    What’s going to happen when Governments and Central Banks get the feeling that there’s a lot of buying and selling going on outside of the economies they control?

    That is the question! There’s an interesting doco on Netflix about it

    rone
    Member

    What’s going to happen when Governments and Central Banks get the feeling that there’s a lot of buying and selling going on outside of the economies they control?

    I guess their only option will be to have their own block chain.

    rone
    Member

    My worry about it all is the fact that people are making (up?) money with no discernible thing to back it up

    It’s pinned to the dollar.

    It’s clearly going to develop from here though.

    Premier Icon brant
    Subscriber

    Perhaps this truly is a modern gold rush.

    Which reminded me of this documentary series which was quite nice if anyone hasn’t seen it.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0824c7w

    codybrennan
    Member

    Not very green though, is it? How many watts is that burning through?

    https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

    Premier Icon piha
    Subscriber

    Thanks for your post Handyman153.

    I have been interested by crypto currency for a fair few years but never brave enough to start sinking money into it. I think it’s fascinating how the currency has developed in the last few years. I look forward to reading how your venture progresses.

    jolmes
    Member

    This is considered a small set up…

    This is also the reason graphics cards for gamers have gone through the roof in terms of cost and have very poor availability all over the world.

    Unless you’re doing it on a serious scale, don’t even think its worth it anymore.

    Ok. So there is a finite amount of the currency on the internet, somewhere. But where does that come from. Can I just invent my own and put 10 trillion there? What is it backed by? I get that central banks do this, but they are backing it, and a stable country most likely gonna be around for a long time.

    Get it on diamonds and gold, but l can hold that in my hand. This is a much more trust thing that it really is there, somewhere.

    Also, seems daft that there are several versions invented by speculators. A one world currency for trade would be good, but this is very volatile and, as it stands, like a pyramid scheme, where everyone buying is relying on the next wave of people buying it from them for more.

    Premier Icon jimmy
    Subscriber

    Buy and HODL

    chvck
    Member

    I find this stuff really interesting but my understanding isn’t quite fully there. I’m pretty sure it’d be very difficult to pull off but is it possible that one body could manage to control 51% of the ledgers and just walk off with everyone’s money?

    Premier Icon curiousyellow
    Subscriber

    Nice setup OP.

    @chvck
    Whales do exist in the crypto market. It’s pretty unregulated so you sometimes see some strange trades going through that you’d not in a regulated environment (e.g: wash trading).

    To people who think it’s a pie in the sky thing. Yup, right now it’s mostly an instrument for speculation. If you’re going to trade it then that’s a full time job.

    For the hand wringer complaining about “oh no! Electricity wasted!” Then remember fiat costs a ton of energy to create, distribute and maintain as well. All those printing presses, armed guards, transportation rigs, guess what? They cost money!

    rone
    Member

    What is it backed by? I get that central banks do this, but they are backing it, and a stable country most likely gonna be around for a long time.

    What do the banks back though? They use fractional reserve.

    Also it’s the government that’s ultimately backs your money.

    rone
    Member

    . I’m pretty sure it’d be very difficult to pull off but is it possible that one body could manage to control 51% of the ledgers and just walk off with everyone’s money?

    As I understand it, they don’t own the currency , they just control the blockchain. That’s not the same as owning the contents of the wallet.

    The same reason your accountant can’t steal your money from just your paperwork. But it’s like having lots of accountants working on one ledger.

    rone
    Member

    But where does that come from. Can I just invent my own and put 10 trillion there?

    It comes from the miners solving mathematical equations, which takes lots of power and time.

    You can mine, but you can’t just put a trillion there.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    How many watts is that burning through?

    there’s an awful lot of containers full of bitcoin mining machines being placed in the sunnier parts of the US with arrays of solar panels around them now.

    I’d get in early, get out quick – there will either be a loss of faith in the whole blockchain thing when it’s found it can be manipulated or a realisation that actually nation states backing currencies is quite a good thing on the whole.

    codybrennan
    Member

    curiousyellow –

    For the hand wringer complaining about “oh no! Electricity wasted!” Then remember fiat costs a ton of energy to create, distribute and maintain as well. All those printing presses, armed guards, transportation rigs, guess what? They cost money!

    That’ll be me? No, no complaining about electricity ‘wasted’, I’m just concerned about climate change, and the amount of energy needed here. You carry on though.

    chvck
    Member

    As I understand it, they don’t own the currency , they just control the blockchain. That’s not the same as owning the contents of the wallet.

    Could they not create a load of fraudulent ledgers to fake everyone handing over their money? As I say, I’ve still not fully got the grasp of it! Might have to watch some documentaries.

    rone
    Member

    Well if you’re smart with your energy output you may not need to put the central heating on!

    rone
    Member

    Could they not create a load of fraudulent ledgers to fake everyone handing over their money?

    Hackers can be an issue just like in any system.

    Ewan
    Member

    I may have missed it, but what was the cost of all that kit? That’d let you compare the ROI compared to say sticking it on a global tracker fund.

    Premier Icon BigEaredBiker
    Subscriber

    control 51% of the ledgers and just walk off with everyone’s money?

    No, assuming they could manipulate things the way they wanted you would still end up with a fork in that blockchain with 2 currencies resulting from it.

    A hard fork is why I now have ~ £8.50 worth of BitCoin-Cash alongside my ~ £150 of Bitcoin. It just creates more money Yayyy 😀

    Block-chain are here to stay, and my bet is they will eventually be used for loads of important things as a form of uncrackable database e.g. storing title-deeds, Bills of Laden, generic proof of ownership etc. Currency is just one usage and might not be the one that actually endures if it remains so volatile, slow to register actual transactions and continues to carry high transaction fees.

    Milkie
    Member

    Subscribed! I have looked at miners and thought about giving it a go, but not sure I want to commit when I’m not too sure on the return.

    Premier Icon curiousyellow
    Subscriber

    @codybrennan
    You’ve got a point. It is ridiculously energy intensive. But remember, the amount of Bitcoins is finite, so at some point mining will stop and transactions will be the only thing that need to happen. There are alternative currencies which are taking steps to minimise power consumption.
    Also, like rone said, some people use the heat output for… heating.

    Compared to fiat currency it should be simpler to administer and maintain.

    Also, sorry for the name-calling.

    At the moment, it feels like it’s just a massive run on speculation. Bitcoin is being used as a store of value by a lot of people so it may not crash long term. Ethereum may have legs but smart contracts can be implemented in any currency. However, like BigEaredBiker says, the blockchain is here to stay. Even my friends who are bankers believe it’s the way forward.

    codybrennan
    Member

    curiousyellow – Member
    @codybrennan
    You’ve got a point. It is ridiculously energy intensive. But remember, the amount of Bitcoins is finite, so at some point mining will stop and transactions will be the only thing that need to happen. There are alternative currencies which are taking steps to minimise power consumption.
    Also, like rone said, some people use the heat output for… heating.

    Compared to fiat currency it should be simpler to administer and maintain.

    Thanks CY- I wasn’t trolling, its a genuine concern. OTOH, I’m shopping for a new smart turbo trainer right now, and I could argue that as it uses unnecessary electricity, I’m something of a hypocrite….

    Also, sorry for the name-calling.

    Don’t worry about it, no offence taken- I hadn’t had any coffee at that point so wasn’t as diplomatic as I normally am 🙂

    At the moment, it feels like it’s just a massive run on speculation. Bitcoin is being used as a store of value by a lot of people so it may not crash long term. Ethereum may have legs, but in the long term, like BigEaredBiker says, the blockchain is going to be here to stay. Even my friends who are bankers believe it’s the way forward.

    It is indeed. I’m seeing its impact in my industry already (comms), and its gonna be a game-changer, for everything from packet-based services to file storage and distribution….everything really.

    EDIT- oh, and “Vurt” is a brilliant book 🙂

    Premier Icon Flaperon
    Subscriber

    But remember, the amount of Bitcoins is finite, so at some point mining will stop and transactions will be the only thing that need to happen.

    More important to remember is that the mining difficulty is exponential, so the people who invented the system hold the bulk of the currency and effectively paid nothing for it…

    IvanDobski
    Member

    I’ve just taken the plunge into crypto currencies although it’s more of a dipping the toe in than a plunge as such. I’ve loads of old computers sitting about which I had considered turning into mining machines but realistically the reason they’re sitting about is because they’re old and slow so don’t think this is a go-er. I’ve also considered renting bandwidth from a mining farm or whatever the phrase is, might just do it for the sake of trying it to be honest. Not sure why but I quite “like” ethereum, not as in I think it’ll do well but more it seems like a “friendly” sort of crypto currency!

    I’m not sure they’ll take off as actual mainstream currencies until the volatility settles a bit though, obviously you can buy things with them but to me they seem much more like commodities than anything else.

    I have no words for what an environmentally ridiculous and appalling thing cryptocurrencies are…

    TurnerGuy
    Member

    I have no words for what an environmentally ridiculous and appalling thing cryptocurrencies are…

    except that they are not – they offer real possibilities in problem areas like aid, where payments get half-inched along the way by corrupt bodies like governments.

    Premier Icon oldnpastit
    Subscriber

    how do crypto currencies compare to gold mining (which dumps arsenic and mercury into the local water courses) in terms of environmental damage?

    except that they are not – they offer real possibilities in problem areas like aid, where payments get half-inched along the way by corrupt bodies like governments.

    How does that justify such profligate use of energy to imagine them?

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