I think I can stetch to a HT and FS and Bird is top of the list for £1380 with the below spec (currently on offer!)

The other option was the Crush Pro (currently same price) but think the Bird will suit my needs better.

Having spoken to Ben at Bird he has said the TR is a long bike and has recommomended a Medium with 40mm stem (5ft 11 322 leg).

I have only changed a few bits from the standard build – added the raceface dropper, raceface 40mm turbine r stem and turbine r 800mm bar.

The rest is standard zero spec (NX 1×11, Yari etc).

Anything you would recommend looking in to build wise? or anyone have one and agree that wide bars, 40mm stem on a medium will be ok?

Don’t have a HT but ride a Aeris 140 in M and went 35mm Stem and I’m about same height as you
I’ve now switched to the 50mm Stem with 780mm bars
What I have heard is leave the dropper and then buy the Brand X one
Suppose to be the same as the Raceface one but half the price
Mibbe get better wheels or forks with the extra budget
As they will be something you will no doubt feel is upgradeable later

I’d try to upgrade the NX cassette to a proper XD one

honourablegeorge – Member

I’d try to upgrade the NX cassette to a proper XD one +1

Im about 5 11″ and my medium TR is a good fit. Didnt spec a dropper when had it built just added one later.

I’m on an Aeris 145 and am 5’9 with about a 32″ inside leg. But I’ve got an ML so not sure how that compares to an M on a hardtail.

Got a 35mm stem and 760mm handlebar on mine. I don’t like the sweep on the bar so changing it for a 780mm one with a little bit more Sweep and I think a bit more rise.

Agree with above – if you can stretch to it I’d get an xd driver with 10-42 cassette. I’ve got that cassette with a 30t chainring so I’ve got a nice low gear for really steep hills.

Are the wheels the e1900 dt Swiss ones? If so thats what I’ve got and I’m happy with them. They are lapping up any abuse I can throw at them and run well setup tubeless. Nicest wheels I’ve ever had on an Mtb.

I’ve got the Yaris as well – pretty happy with them. I’ve had to remove all the bottomless tokens from mine to get nearer to using all the travel but not got there yet. Still gradually reducing air pressure to get the best balance.

honourablegeorge – Member 
I’d try to upgrade the NX cassette to a proper XD one

Which will get you? …

A lighter cassette yes. 10t top instead of 11t… meh. Lock into SRAM XD “standard” and expensive cassettes 😉

Though I do agree XD “solves” the issue of digging into the freehub, but then alloy (XT) or carbon carriers (XTR) pretty much make the problem not really a problem.

Though Bird’s options if upgrading to a Shimano XT cassette gets you Shimano drivetrain I think. I like to mix and match. SRAM drivetrain but Shimano freehub and cassette.

Which will get you? …

A lighter cassette yes. 10t top instead of 11t… meh. Lock into SRAM XD “standard” and expensive cassettes

If you need the gear range then that 10t sprocket is worth 4-5 teeth on the other end of the stack – it thus allows you to go three teeth smaller on the chainring without losing anything on your highest gear.

Saying that I’m still on 1×10 with an 11-36 cassette. 😉

A lighter cassette yes. 10t top instead of 11t… meh.

In effect (once specced with an appropriate front ring), that gives you 1 gear lower. Worth it imo. My last X1 cassette lasted twice as long as my previous XT one.

Edit: Beaten to it by the chief

Edit: Beaten to it by the chief

How can I get my username changed to that permanently? 😉

I’m 5’11” and feel much happier on a large tr with 40mm stem and 785mm bars, can’t remember who I spoke to, but large is what they recommended for me and it was perfect.

Interesting about sizing. I got responses from 2 people at Bird recommending different sizes.

Changing the spec starts to take me over my slim budget unfortunately.

I know it’s a very different bike and longer travel but the Crush Pro comes in at £1350 too once you apply discount.

https://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=4659

Mixture of SLX/XT. Short dropper though but easy fix later down the line.

I guess it depends what you want the bike for? Personally I think 130mm is the sweet spot for a hardtail like that.

I like both but would go for the bird. Spec is incredible for the money but more importantly the geometry is to my liking (Aeris owner).

Both will have bits you will want to replace over time, drivetrain I never get too hung up on as you’ll replace with use anyway.

I’m exactly 5’10.5″ and ride a medium Zero AM with a 35mm stem. The TR is a bit longer than the AM. That’s confusing isn’t it? 😉

Hmmm – The chief 8) Ye reckon at 6’2″ I’d be a large or XL?

deadkenny – Member

A lighter cassette yes. 10t top instead of 11t… meh. Lock into SRAM XD “standard” and expensive cassettes

Better range, better freehub standard, and the GX outlasts XT, weighs less, and costs about the same

Ben said that the TR is very long and recommended a Medium with 40mm stem and 35mm riser bar.

Thats why I went with the turbine r bars and stem. The Chester bars are over half the price and 780mm so maybe a better option. Still 35mm rise.

The standard spec will probably be fine – how much are they charging you for a dropper post? Could you save money by buying a cheaper one separately – e.g. RSP Plummet or Brand X Ascend?

Handlebar wise just check the rise and the sweep – if there is a cheaper option that’s only 20mm narrower then I’d go for that to save a bit of cash.

You asked for suggestions on things to uograde – if I could squeak the xd driver in them personally I would so I could put a smaller front chainring on. If you’re happy with a 42 rear / 32 front lowest gear and 11 red / 32 front then obviously it’s not worth upgrading. I only went 10/42 as I wanted to drop the front chainring to 30 without losing at the top end.

Ben is usually very good at picking a size – from my measurements he put me on an ML Aeris when I test rode it and it feels perfect in size.

Can I you get a test ride in before buying – that would really sort the size thing out for you?

Just changing the subject, have you tried playing with bars / stems on your Trek or have you decided you want a hardtail as well as a full suss?

On the NX build I’d upgrade the brakes from the Level T to the DB5. Also ask Bird if they can also upgrade the GX cassette on a XD driver if you’re that way inclined and can’t stretch to full GX drive train. I have a 30/11 top gear on my Aeris, I have used it twice I think on road sections, meh.

I think I want a HT and the FS! I raised the bars and the Trek feels much better – changed to a 50mm stem and feels nicer. Not 100% convinced on the Renthals I have put on so might have a shop around too see wht cheap bars I can find to try instead.

very useful thread this, as am considering same bike to replace my 2013 Soul. Also 5ft 10.5, so likely a medium, though just a little bit concerned how long it is.

My FS is a Medium Anthem 2017 with ETT 605mm, reach 435mm. The medium Bird is 625mm and 447mm on same measurements.

My medium Soul, which does feel a bit short since getting the Anthem is 593mm and 419mm.

On sizing…… I’m 5’7″ and ride a medium MK1.5 Aeris with 40mm stem, I’d go for a medium TR also with a 35 or 40mm stem (and possibly move saddle forward a few mm). My Aeris is 2mm longer reach and 5mm shorter ETT than the medium TR. I also fit on an ML Aeris 145 at 630 ETT and 480 reach, with a 32mm stem. All with my prefered 760 bars. But having ridden the Aeris for a year now I’m quite used to longer feeling bikes, coming from a short bike the length with be noticeable, as it was for me initially.

The Chester bars are a lot cheaper and the cheaper race face stem brings the build in lower!

as am considering same bike to replace my 2013 Soul

Jeez, you’re not still pontificating about this?! This time next year, you’ll still have that soul! 😆

^^^^^ indeed, I simply can’t justify the spend nobeer, not this year anyway.. Bought the boys new HT’s a few months back, and my Anthem in January…

With a bit of luck there will be a new Soul around by the time I change 🙂

My Aeris is 2mm longer reach and 5mm shorter ETT than the medium TR

That’s the static reach values. Full-sus bikes have pretty much the same reach under sag as unloaded (more sag on the shock than the fork but the fork isn’t vertical so it cancels out). Hardtail bikes gain quite a bit of reach under sag, usually around 15mm (basically 1mm per 10mm of total fork travel, or 1mm per 2.5mm of fork sag). ETT on the other hand barely changes between static and sagged.

In Iain’s example the Soul is quoted with sagged geometry, so if you sag the TR to match you get:

Medium Anthem 2017: ETT 605mm, reach 435mm.
Medium Bird Zero TR is ETT 625mm, reach 460mm.
Medium Soul is ETT 593mm and reach 419mm.

^^^^ that makes it even longer for me… 🙁

I’m 5’9″/175cm and went with a medium TR frame based purely on Bird’s size guide.

It’s an incomplete self build at the stage where I can finally sit on it (just need to position calipers, fit chain, and index gears).

It’s my first 650b bike coming from 26″ (~2012) which combined with the long frame unsurprisingly means it feels and looks big.

I’ve got 130mm Yaris, 40mm stem with 26mm spacers beneath, 25mm risers. 780mm bars are 40mm more than I’m used to. Leaning toward trimming at least 20mm off.

Seen a few threads on here which make me wonder if I should have gone a size down with it. It doesn’t feel excessively big… just bigger or perhaps feels like more bike. Need to ride it to say for sure (c’mon postie hurry up will ya).

Hmmm – The chief Ye reckon at 6’2″ I’d be a large or XL?

Too many variables! 😉 What’s the reach on your best fitting bike?

I have this hypothesis on sizing:

1. Reach should be based on back length (shoulder to hips) not height, which can be simplified to height minus inside leg.
2. Stem length dominates steering feel (for a given frame) – choose the stem length whose steering feel you like, rather than to adjust fit.
3. Wider bars allow shorter reach to fit and vice versa. Thus arm length is often cancelled out as longer arms tend to go with wider bars.
4. Less strong riders tend to prefer quicker steering.
5. “Springier” riders (natural sprinters and jumpers) can handle longer frames/reaches better – better at flicking and popping.
6. Stronger riders can handle shorter frames/reaches better – better at holding a less stable bike on course through the rough.

I have long legs and arms for my height, I prefer wide bars but only have 750s on my hardtail because the trees are too close together, I prefer stems closer to 50mm than 35mm (but I hate long stems), I’m not very poppy or bouncy (terrible sprinter) but I am strong. So my 451mm (sagged) reach Zero AM (medium)is a little longer than ideal for me (even with a 35mm stem) whilst my 425mm reach Spitfire (medium) with a 50mm stem and 810mm is maybe 5-10mm shorter than ideal (but closer than the Zero).

If you’re both inherently springy/explosive and strong/powerful then you’ll be comfortable on a wider range of reaches – which is why the pros don’t seem to care as much as we amateurs. 😉

5. “Springier” riders (natural sprinters and jumpers) can handle longer frames/reaches better – better at flicking and popping.
6. Stronger riders can handle shorter frames/reaches better – better at holding a less stable bike on course through the rough.

Not sure I entirely agree with this but all opinions isn’t it.

FWIW I am a smidge over 6.2 and tested Aeris in large and XL flavour. Much preferred the XL. Not sure how reach compares to the TR, and also too many variables in terms of what you like, arm and torso length etc.

I find myself more comfortable sitting slightly more upright than being stretched out which seems to be the way ti ride these days! My Trek is definantly not a long bike by any means.

The reach and some other numbers on the XL are not too far away from my Bronson XL, but I’ve had the direct purchase measurement experience before, my Canyon sizing were way off, especially the TT length.

Greg – do you know Ruaridh M ?(gmbc, mid 40’s used to do some DH). He’s just bought this in a Large and loves it and he’s about my height…

Na, kinda lost track of who’s in the club these days tbh. The riding at Mugdock doesn’t really justify the hour it takes me to get there of an evening.

^^^ no , fully get that and quite agree. He’s an old timer, been around the club for yonks, used to ride an old mustard coloured Soul and raced a 5 DH ?

Anyways, the point was, he’s about my height, 5 ft 10 ish, normal looking proportions and on an L, which would suggest you’d be on the next size up.

Aye, I think so.

Confusing times! I’m going to tray arrange a trip up there if I go for the bird – too much £££ to get it wrong!

^^^ me too, the numbers say I am a M, yet a riding mate, same size as me, has just bought an L and loves it. Will be getting a shot on his in a few weeks though, and the coffers don’t accommodate a purchase for a few months anyway.

Where are you based in the country Jay? Are you anywhere near Swinley? If not I think there are 2 other locations for Bird test rides – Cwmcarn and somewhere up North?