Has anyone got a pitch fork I can borrow?

@joshvegas
You can have mine, but you have to return it in the condition I lent it to you in.

Has anyone got a pitch fork I can borrow?

You can borrow mine if you replace the handle and head before you return it.

I won’t need it until we see pictures

I’ve got biscuits in case anyone’s running low.

Malted milk or fruit shortcake.

I’m going to guess that there is a slight toe overlap on the bike?

Non cyclist took the bike up his road and attempted a sharp turn at the end and resulted in an OTB.

sounds like somebody’s slats need a hoofin’

I get my car bike back any differently than when I gave it, Monster Joe’s gonna be disposing of two bodies

Skipping over all the comments and replying to the OP…

Yes, within reason I’d expect him to give you some recompense. If things are just scraped without damaging them it does make it more tricky – I wouldn’t expect someone that just scraped a rear mech to get me a new one, a nice bit of carbon frame I might be a bit more worried about, and bar tape for sure I’d want changing.

But I would point out the “break it you bought it” rule prior to loan in any case, and avoid having this discussion after.

All you folks saying “a lot of people don’t realise bikes are expensive”: so what? Can someone give a guide as to the price ranges where the principle of giving something back in the condition in which you received it no longer applies, and explain why?

I don’t even begin to understand the reasoning behind handing something back knackered being considered acceptable on the basis that it’s assumed to be cheap. If I borrowed someone’s Apollo and knackered it, I’d at the very least go out of my way to have a frank and apologetic conversation with the owner as soon as possible to see what they actually wanted fixing.

But if a non cyclist was asked to replace a hundred quid BSO they may not be so reluctant. Methinks that is what people are trying to point out. In the same way that I cannot comprehend why anyone would spend more than a tenner on a phone, many people will just not “get” the idea of a 4 figure price for a bike. Yes the idea of replacing what you broke is the same but when faced with big sums of money some peoples attitudes change.
Lets all wait and see shall we?

tthew » Is there only me feeling a little less sorry for the OP due to his asking for peoples opinion, then getting quite aggressive when they don’t tally with his?

Probably not just you, but not everybody agrees with you either.
Yep. That’s fine by me. As is the way of the world.

See how easy that was OP?

Come on OP, you must have had the conversation now – lets hear the juicy details.

This thread is almost as good as the (removed) thread about being blackmailed for indecent webcam exposure!

FWIW, you have my sympathies. I think replacement of damaged parts is the minimum (probably a few beers for the hassle too) and it’s one of the reasons I am reluctant to borrow things I know I can’t easily replace.

mildly related, but I remember a chap in our old club who lent his bike to a friend, said friend was one of the nice ones and genuinely trying to be thoughtful and appreciative decided to clean the bike before returning it, with the industrial strength power washer at his work, and subsequently pretty much purged every moving part of any grease/lubrication, but not being totally unaware, decided to lubricate it with GT85…including the disc brakes 🙁

That resulted in a slightly awkward exchange where the guy proudly handed back the shiny clean bike with a big smile and was a bit taken aback when the owner pulled a funny face after giving it the once over to find the brakes howling like a banshee and most of the moving parts feeling rougher than a badgers arse, and then having to explain about now needing new brake pads and having to strip and lube the hubs, headset, BB, pivot bearings and possibly fork lowers service too.

All the more reason to have a chat about expectation before you loan, as even the nice ones can inadvertently do harm.

Hope you get it sorted OP, not a nice situation to be in.

I feel insulted at being used as an example of good forum etiquette 😳

In the same way that I cannot comprehend why anyone would spend more than a tenner on a phone, many people will just not “get” the idea of a 4 figure price for a bike.

Possibly, but then I’m guessing that if I lend you my phone it’d be reasonably evident that it’s a £10 phone, and if the OP lends someone a lightweight carbon fibre bike it’d probably be reasonably evident that it’s not a £150 Asda special.

But as I say, either way, (and yes, as you rightly say, the “let’s wait and see” caveat applies, but I’m taking issue with some people’s arguments rather than the OP’s specific situation) if, say, you smashed the screen of my phone I’m guessing you wouldn’t just leave it to your wife to hand it back to me on the basis that all phones must cost a tenner and therefore I must be perfectly happy with a smashed one. I mean, at the very least, surely anyone who was astronomically ignorant but still had some moral integrity would hand it back with a tenner and a note saying “sorry I wrecked your phone, here, buy yourself a new one”?

I’d also think that the average man in the street has some idea of how much a nice bike can cost nowadays – given road bike racing gets much more mainstream coverage and I’ve seen plenty of articles mentioning the cost of high end bikes in the non-specialist press.

‘The chat’ should always happen when its not a close friend or someone who doesn’t understand the value of said loan object.

OP…..hopefully your pristine bike didn’t have a mechanical that caused the crash?

My original and only real question was: Is it widely accepted that you return something in at least as good condition as it was loaned or does it need to be agreed in advance?

Summary answer being as lenient as possible to the colleague seems to be if it is scratched and functional (wear and tear) you may have to accept it, it something is functionally damaged (as it sounds like the bike is) then the colleague shouldn’t need to be asked to make good on the damage, it should just happen.

OP, if it is any consolation I don’t think there is much you could have done differently as even a great friend can give you a few surprises where money and morals are involved unfortunately 😕 It’s too late to say don’t lend it so all you can do is calmly try and get the bike back in one piece.

“you’re not going to like it”.

That sets off alarm bells but I hope that you’ve had a good day at work today and the colleague is doing the decent thing.

Possibly, but then I’m guessing that if I lend you my phone it’d be reasonably evident that it’s a £10 phone, and if the OP lends someone a lightweight carbon fibre bike it’d probably be reasonably evident that it’s not a £150 Asda special.

really? I’d say even somebody fairly tech savvy would struggle to tell the difference between a £50 Chinese phone a £600 top-of-the range at a glance. No way a layman could tell a carbon bike was worth 20x an asda special.

Also lots of use of “wrecked” and “smashed” in the various examples given. From the ops description it sounds like a few scratches.

Likewise, if you asked 20 of your friends and family how much your fox forks would cost to replace, I bet they’d be a country mile short. I know I always get exactly the same reaction from none bikists. Even some of my MTB friends are completely clueless as to the cost of anything above deore level.

Well, anyway, my point was really that it’s beside the point. I don’t see how the price tag, and/or someone’s failure to realise what it is, means it’s ok to hand back damaged stuff. Or, rather, not even bother to hand it back but let someone else do it for you.

(And, reluctantly being drawn into the specifics, if the OP’s description “sounds like a few scratches” I think we’ve been reading different threads. Or maybe you don’t ever use your shifters and you’re happy riding gouged carbon frames, I dunno. If someone borrowed your car and handed it back with the gearstick snapped off and a big scrape down one side, maybe you’d call that “a few scratches” and shrug it off. I salute your carefree nature and I’d love a puff on whatever you’re smoking.)

Are you that Bez off the front page?

Are you that Bez off the front page?

Please, please, please let it be this Bez.

No way a layman could tell a carbon bike was worth 20x an asda special.

The OP didn’t say why he lent out the bike ( charity event ? )
But I’d find it impossible to believe that the value of the bike didn’t crop up somewhere in a conversations leading up to the loan.

Non-bikey people do struggle with the cost of bikes. I have found it useful to offer an equivalent e.g. “would you lock you laptop up outside?”, or “if you borrow a car and smash a light/wing mirror you pay up”.
You could offer to split the cost – half for the damage and half to teach the OP not to lend stuff to colleagues…

The OP didn’t say why he lent out the bike ( charity event ? )
But I’d find it impossible to believe that the value of the bike didn’t crop up somewhere in a conversations leading up to the loan.

I agree, presumably it as lent for some cycling specific challenge and the borrower wanted a good bike, you wouldn’t lend a carbon framed bike for someone who needed something to pop down the pub on?

The suspense in waiting for the pictures is killing me. OP, please post them up.

Neither a borrower or a lender be.

No update yet, OP told the guy he expected him to pay and how much he wanted, and promptly got a bike wrapped around his head?

No way a layman could tell a carbon bike was worth 20x an asda special.

Do you really believe that? I’m not saying you’re wrong but that’s very much at odds with my experience. They might not be able to price it to the nearest £100 but I suspect most of the public would know if a bike is worth closer to £2000 than £200.

Borrow for sorrow ……. and I avoid lending out for that reason too.

Where’s the OP?

The suspense is killing me.

His work is done here, probably off elsewhere

Think he’s chinned the bloke and been nicked for it

Superficial – Member
No way a layman could tell a carbon bike was worth 20x an asda special.
Do you really believe that? I’m not saying you’re wrong but that’s very much at odds with my experience. They might not be able to price it to the nearest £100 but I suspect most of the public would know if a bike is worth closer to £2000 than £200.

Would that be an On One Carbon Lurcher frame (£350) or a Yeti Carbon ARC (£1500)? 😉 or ask them to guestimate a nice steel, alu and Lynskey ti just on sight? that’s not even with components which would be even more crazy.

OP had ‘scuffle’ with the MD and was escorted from the building.

Do you really believe that? I’m not saying you’re wrong but that’s very much at odds with my experience. They might not be able to price it to the nearest £100 but I suspect most of the public would know if a bike is worth closer to £2000 than £200.

Totally believe it. I suspect quite a few on here couldn’t get within 50% on a lot of exotic bikes, let alone someone who’s never been around a nice bike. Look at Fresh Goods Friday. Pretty much every week there’s a “how much?!” post.

No way a layman could tell a carbon bike was worth 20x an asda special.

Do you really believe that? I’m not saying you’re wrong but that’s very much at odds with my experience. They might not be able to price it to the nearest £100 but I suspect most of the public would know if a bike is worth closer to £2000 than £200.

Sometimes not only the public don’t but traders don’t either! 🙂

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/13/vuelta-bike-secondhand-sale-police-recover

On a positive note a mate borrowed my bike last week. Turned up today with the front wheel well and truly out of true. He’s ordered a new rim and will build it Wednesday (bike mechanic) all ordered before telling me it was bent.

nairnster – Member

No update yet, OP told the guy he expected him to pay and how much he wanted, and promptly got a bike wrapped around his head?

People asked for photos so he stopped posting?

This thread is still crashing along nicely..

He was mucking about when he came off apparently. “Being a right tool” was one description. When he was getting off the bike he was “dropping it from waist height….just letting go….wham”. When it was pointed out to him that his lack of care was causing damage, his general response was “F- it, I’m knackered”. Other colleagues on the work sponsored (kind of) charity/local club fundraising ride were quiet astonished and very unhappy with his manner all day.
He was quite bullish this morning but (I’m not afraid to say, I was quite relieved that) he was bullied by the rest of the guys into apologising and half heartedly offering to “fix it”. He tried to play the tough guy and front it out when I told him that a new frame and parts are probably going to run to around £800. Things got quite heated with the others and the manager overheard the commotion.
A few people hauled in the office, I was spoken to as well. No real belief that he will pay for the damage. He’s already suggesting he pays some off each month as he doesn’t have any savings.
I was and still am quite gutted. A very severe lesson learned.
Thank you for the supportive comments, my apologies if I’ve been aggressive. That’s not my normal way. I was and still am quite stressed and utterly fed up. I’m not a huge contributor to this forum and I think I’ll go back to reading the odd thread now and again at most.
Thanks again.