Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 84 total)
  • Bike clothing = poor value and poor design?
  • matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    I’ve just bought some more riding kit for myself and the family.

    I’ve got Endura bib longs with a) stitching on differently foam section front of the chamois which chafes. b) a zip without locking option, so as you pedal it slowly works down from belly button to groin, plus unfinished end that’s heat knifed so rubs as well. RRP £160

    We bought Madison riding tops, both wicking hot weather short sleeves. Both got huge plastic welded in label creating a sweaty point and hard seams that chafe, both short the body for riding. RRP £40

    I’ve also bought an Adidas Climacool zip top -well made, wicks like crazy, no daft design details or chafing, a few reflective bits. RRP £30

    Already had an Ascics running top – multiple fabric zones, well made, all seams bound, reflective details, bamboo. RRP £40

    Scott riding windproof. Generally OK, but has no tie down for hood which flaps around, and a crazy RRP of £140.

    Bought a Rab windproof, really well made, more breathable, easily a match for the Scott, same hood flap but RRP of ‘only’ £50.

    Riding gloves too, I’ve a moan about them too…

    Is it me, or is some riding kit poor value and poorly designed compared to a lot of other sports kit?

    lunge
    Full Member

    Is it me, or is some riding kit poor value and poorly designed compared to a lot of other sports kit

    There’s poorly designed and expensive kit in any sport, I don’t think cycling has particularly more or less.

    I was out running with a couple of guys yesterday who were on a 5 mile rant about Inov8 shoes and how they don’t last and are to expensive. They then moved to Salomon clothing that’s marketed as being the best trail running kit in the business and just falls apart.

    There’s poor kit in any sport.

    ton
    Full Member

    i have never really got on with any cycling clothing. always thought it very expensive and designed for odd shaped people. i tend to use well made outdoor clothing.
    Keela and Columbia are 2 brands that i find good value and quality.

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    chakaping
    Free Member

    There’s poorly designed and expensive kit in any sport, I don’t think cycling has particularly more or less.

    +1

    We could talk about those RRPs (which I’m sure you didn’t pay) being poor VFM compared to other sports. But then you didn’t pay them so why would we bother?

    Salomon clothing that’s marketed as being the best trail running kit in the business and just falls apart.

    Ha. Never had their clothing but I did buy some of their walking boots and they fell apart.

    GolfChick
    Free Member

    I do often find myself wondering who tests the products out and that I could do a better job. Like recently bought a pair of Madison shorts with the feature ‘lots of pockets’ why oh why would a cyclist need pockets on the back… where you sit?!?

    Keva
    Free Member

    I bought some Endura 3/4 length shorts about 2yrs ago but have only worn them three or four times. There’s a seam right wear the shorts go over my knee and after about an hour and a half of riding it rubs the skin off!

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    recently bought a pair of Madison shorts with the feature ‘lots of pockets’ why oh why would a cyclist need pockets on the back… where you sit?!?

    Loads of folk apparently. I’ve seen comments on here with folk complaining about a lack of pockets.  I don’t mind them – it gives an additional layer of material.

    Good example of a design/feature choice though and how the things that some folk hate, others love.

    dc1988
    Full Member

    I will occasionally find some very good clothing that inevitably gets worn all the time and I dread the day I need to try and replace it but can’t. The good stuff is rarely the expensive stuff in my experience.

    I’ve got loads or kit that rarely gets worn because it’s rubbish. I also don’t often buy expensive clothing because I know it’s not often worth it, I would be happy to pay a premium price if I knew I was getting a premium product.

    boriselbrus
    Free Member

    I know it doesn’t suit everyone but most of my favourite riding kit is Lidl /Aldi.

    My experience with more expensive, Bike specific brands is not good. Endura shorts in small, medium and large which are all the same size and way too baggy so they rub the top tube, boardman bib shorts where the chamois seems to sit halfway up my back. BBB and Altura winter gloves which bulky, and don’t keep your hands warm or dry. My Aldi gloves were a quarter of the price and so much better

    devash
    Free Member

    Totally agree OP. Brands I’ve written off because of shoddy and expensive clothing include;

    Altura / Endura = poor materials, stitching that comes undone after 1 ride, sizing all over the place. The exception being my two pairs of Endura Humvee shorts that will probably survive a nuclear explosion and are still going strong after 8 years.

    Madison = good value (in the sales) but poor fit. Way, way to big for any given size. I’m a textbook size 32 waist and their size small (supposed to be for 28-30 waists) hangs off me.

    Morvelo = used to be really, really good. I still have jerseys of theirs going back years. Properly nice material and great fit. Not sure what happened but the material quality went to hell over night and the fit ballooned out. Stopped buying after that.

    All the Italian designed, Italian made kit I’ve bought has been excellent, but obviously costs a lot more. For MTB duties, where there is always the risk of crashing, I’d generally avoid pricey kit.

    Paradiso
    Free Member

    Agree with OP. Badly placed labels and seams are a constant nuisance. I’m sure some stuff is designed and sold without even basic ‘testing’. Even ‘top’ brands make basic errors. Some recent Assos bib shorts have irritating seams and labels. Velcro on the waist band of mtb shorts is particularly stupid, given that it destroys any other material it comes into contact with. Ground Effect clothing is a bit expensive, but you at least get the impression that the people who design it have tried cycling in it. Specialized Dri-release 3/4 trail top is also a winner. Keela Roadrunner pants also work well.

    GolfChick
    Free Member

    Yeah pockets are needed, but bum pockets?! You’re going to be sitting on the contents all day surely?

    nickc
    Full Member

    Is it me, or is some riding kit poor value and poorly designed compared to a lot of other sports kit?

    Not just other sports but MTB kit in comparison to the boom in roadie kit makes us look like mugs by comparison. While you can buy some nicely made and cut kit, the vast majority of it is invariably 100% polyester, and cut to fit where it touches and most of it isn’t even that well put together, and it’s mega pricey Even the recent launch of Rapha kit…all of it baggy dull uninspired monochrome pajama tops.

    ads678
    Full Member

    Yeah pockets are needed, but bum pockets?! You’re going to be sitting on the contents all day surely?

    Nah, back pockets are generally to the side a bit, unless you have a massive saddle it doesn’t contact the pockets. I ride a lot with my wallet in my back pocket and have never had an issue with it.

    I don’t spend too much on (mtb) riding gear apart from bibs/under shorts, as it all just gets wrecked on the MTB. I’m a fat sweaty bastard and nothing works that well but I do generally find that running/walking makes are much better than actual cycling stuff for wicking/drying.

    Road bike gear is different though, stuff works much better than MTB gear, and I’m happy to spend a bit more as it doesn’t get covered in shit.

    gallowayboy
    Full Member

    Design flaws and weird sizing can be sidestepped by buying in shops rather than on line, which might be inconvenient and more expensive and reduces choice, but helps to retain LBSs.
    Its the sudden change in quality of materials/stitching that bugs me. One minute shorts/gloves/jackets by x,y or z are bombproof, the next purchase, cough and they fall to bits!

    jimmy
    Full Member

    Here’s my current gripe – Just bought a Rivelo top, which is nice and fits pretty well. However it is marketed as “Made with bamboo blended fabric to aid wicking and anti-odour performance“… And it stank on ride 1. Clearly I play my part in that, but it amplifies any mild stink of mine where the £10 Ron Hill running tops that I’ve been wearing regularly for something like 9 years don’t (those riding down wind of me may disagree)

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    @nickc – you are right, I perhaps should have titled this ‘MTB kit’ is poor value.

    My Galibier bibs x 2 are brilliant in fit and detail compared to my Endura bibs, and better value.

    I also feel that the Madison kit I have is built to a specification, but not ridden or tested to highlight issues.

    It is some of the smaller brands that seem to get it right more often…?

    desperatebicycle
    Free Member

    running/walking makes are much better than actual cycling stuff for wicking/drying

    Same, nearly all of my baselayers and commuting tops are running tops.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    I wonder if the baselayer wicking thing is due to the fashion for huge great printed logos on everything? It must change what fabric is used and how that fabric performs.

    kerley
    Free Member

    I perhaps should have titled this ‘MTB kit’ is poor value.

    Yep, all my road cycling kit is great value and well designed. Mostly wear Rapha core stuff and for example my long sleeved core jersey was around £80 about 5 years ago and gets worn 3 times a week from October to May and it still looks like new and fits and functions perfectly.

    mashr
    Full Member

    Nah, back pockets are generally to the side a bit, unless you have a massive saddle it doesn’t contact the pockets. I ride a lot with my wallet in my back pocket and have never had an issue with it.

    If the Madison shorts in question are anything like mine, you aren’t getting a wallet in there.

    I’ve pretty much written off Endura, which is a bit crap as I’d like to support the local company. However I’ve got one t-shirt which is nice but a little big, bought a base layer in the same size and almost had to get cut out if it (despite buying larger than the sizing guide). Then it just seems 50:50 if your kit is just going to fall apart anyway

    razorrazoo
    Full Member

    Mostly wear Rapha core stuff and for example my long sleeved core jersey was around £80 about 5 years ago and gets worn 3 times a week from October to May and it still looks like new and fits and functions perfectly.

    Rapha Core kit is great, I’ve gradually moved almost all of my road kit to Rapha (mostly Core) via a bit of patient shopping on ebay.  Fits well, quality, aesthetics and performance is spot on, so worth paying the premium over the lower cost kit.

    I struggle more with mtb kit as seem to sit between medium and large with a lot of the manufacturers, so stuff is often a little too tight or a bit baggy.  Most of the Royal kit I’ve had in the past has been pretty poorly cut.

    stevenmenmuir
    Free Member

    those riding down wind of me may disagree

    It’s a great incentive to ride faster.

    flyingmonkeycorps
    Full Member

    Morvelo = used to be really, really good. I still have jerseys of theirs going back years. Properly nice material and great fit. Not sure what happened but the material quality went to hell over night and the fit ballooned out. Stopped buying after that.

    Pretty sure Morvelo were sold a while ago, that might be something to do with it. Think some of the people originally involved are now running Overland.

    lawman91
    Full Member

    Endura and Madison make kit that looks OK and I’d consider OK-ish value, but the fit is abysmal and quality so-so. Fox fits OK unless you have long legs but the quality is abysmal and way overpriced. I can’t understand how brands can get fit/sizing so wrong. I converted to 7Mesh about 5 years ago and haven’t looked back. Yes it’s pricey, but the fit is as close to tailor-made as I’ve ever seen from a cycling clothing brand and the quality is beyond exceptional; my first pair of shorts from them are still going strong years later and they get hammered. If you want to have your cake and eat it, pay for it because you’ll be eating said cake for a long, long time.

    endoverend
    Full Member

    Another vote for the Rapha Core range. Just got the Core winter jacket and its darn near perfection for a jacket of this type. Fabric, cut, performance, construction quality and design is all exceptionally good for the price point- easily the most comfortable light winter jacket I’ve ever had. I’ve always used a lot of Gore Bike Wear products and equally found them to be also generally excellent at this mid-price range with fabrics, cut and no fripperies. I’ve never found that the cheaper brands are actually worth it as there always seems to be a design flaw or some aspect that makes it too uncomfortable on the bike.

    Bike wear, especially shorts get a hard life compared to other outdoor garments. My new go to brand is Giordana for shorts, available from SwissIconic Factory outlet (25% off currently) – easily as good as some others brands at twice the price. Castelli/ Sportful I’ve found fit and performance to be exceptional but not immune to premature stitching wear. Anything Assos I’ve ever had has been both flawless and incredible long wearing so well worth the outlay… 50% sale territory from now on admittedly.

    ajt123
    Free Member

    Seems to be a lot of hate for Endura.

    In my experience the gloves fit well, but don’t last.

    Have been happy with the Singletrack shorts.

    The real piss take in MTB is Jerseys. Nothing technical, or sophisticated.

    That said, no one forcing you to buy a 60 quid FOX Jersey. Decathlon and Mountain warehouse, maybe a fun one from Ugly Frog.

    ajt123
    Free Member

    If we are opening the VFM door I’m calling out Sat Navs in general and Garmin in particular.

    Top end Garmin costs nearly 3x a ruggedised smart phone, but it does less, the UI and firmware are balls and the screens are bobbins.

    You might argue a £6k Santa Cruz is expensive for what it is, but at least it is good!

    FOG
    Full Member

    I have actually stopped buying MTB specific stuff apart from undershorts for all the reasons stated above. The only stuff that has survived is some 15+ year old Ground Effect kit which was expensive to start with and even that is no longer the quality it was originally.
    Shorts ,you have to regard as consumables, they take an awful lot of hammer and replacing them regularly is reasonable. Tops and jackets should last a lot longer( unless you are a serial crasher) and fit decently.
    I still haven’t found any base layers that don’t pong whatever wonder coating has been applied

    BillOddie
    Full Member

    Fit is a really subjective thing, especially within MTB clothing as some is on an almost roadie template and some is much baggier which won’t suit the slimmer folks, to butcher the old wheelsize adage… “Pick an Clothing Brand and be a dick about it…”

    I’m 6ft1, about 95kg, long of back, short-ish legs, big thighs and arse and compared to most cyclists big arms and shoulders. Trouser size is 34in and I’m a L/XL T-shirt.

    In recent years I have got on well with Dakine (XL in tops and L in shorts) and just recently have got a pair of Madison shorts and Tech T type jersey which despite my sizing chart concerns fit well in the same sizes as Dakine.

    DHB is always good for reasonably priced kit, but I find their sizing is small. XXL for my roadie jackets/bibs which is the biggest size they do I think.  Endura MTB jacket is an XL and hasn’t fallen apart but I haven’t had to wear/wash it too much yet, ask me again in March.

    To be honest outside of gloves, I haven’t had anything fall apart on me for ages, I do tend to wear the arse out of shorts every so often as I refuse to use a rear mudguard.

    I don’t generally pay full retail for clothing as i don’t need the latest colours, dark blue, grey and black stuff is my go to.

    The folk whinging about superfluous pockets…don’t buy shorts with superfluous pockets, superfluous pocket advice there for you…

    z1ppy
    Full Member

    I know it doesn’t suit everyone but most of my favourite riding kit is Lidl /Aldi.

    It’s not about suiting everyone, I think it tends to suck really badly, the tights I had from aldi were shapeless and horrible, the cycling top I got from Lidl had the wicking ability of a plastic bag. I have no interest in buying from Ralpha, but kits got to be actual decent quality for the job, to be of any use.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Another question – how come reviews aren’t picking this up?

    Those Endura bibs I’m moaning about for example. The tests I’ve read online are totally glowing. Has not one tester noted the sewn in different foam pad right where *ahem* your manhood sits? Not one noticed the belly zip poorly finished and will slowly undo? That there is a seam from crotch to butt that is prominent enough to feel it by the end of a long ride?

    mashr
    Full Member

    ajt123
    Free Member

    Seems to be a lot of hate for Endura.

    In my experience the gloves fit well, but don’t last.

    Have been happy with the Singletrack shorts.

    That’s the Endura Paradox in a nutshell – you never know which version you’re going to get

    IdleJon
    Full Member

    It’s not about suiting everyone, I think it tends to suck really badly,

    +1. The chamois pad on a pair of Lidl longs migrates around as I’m riding. If I stand in the pedals the chamois may be between my arse and the saddle when I sit, maybe not. I’ve never had that with any other chamois containing bottoms before or since.

    I say ‘as I’m riding’ but this items has been used about 3 times because it is so hopeless.

    Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    The thing is, we’re a broad church, so many different types of riders/riding/conditions/climate/demands/needs etc. on here.

    I tend to just find stuff that works FOR ME and stick with it, whether it’s bike specific stuff or not (it’s generally not tbh). I think some folk are a hell of a lot more precious/demanding about their kit too, if something doesn’t work perfectly for me, I’m not gonna bin it and buy new tbh.

    the weather we’ve had up here in october too, 15 degC and wet, that’s a tough gig for any kit to keep you dry and be breathable. I always try and ‘dress for the 2nd mile’, ie be cold at first knowing I’m gonna warm up, rather than binning layers at the first climb.

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    Hmmm. I’m a tight-arse & while I will spend money where I can see the worth in it; such as £120 on running shoes without a second thought, I do struggle to spend a lot of money on cycling kit.

    Maybe as a result of that my expectation for performance is a bit lower, but I am struggling to think of any of my cycling kit that doesn’t work OK. And, funnily enough the things that do spring to mind as a bit niggly are on my more expensive kit – e.g, a popper on some £80 (RRP) TSG shorts that is so hard to undo it feels like the fabric will tear before the popper releases & the mesh on some Lusso bib shorts (again ~£80 RRP) wearing my nips ragged.

    There’s been a few comments about Madison which has surprised me. It was not long ago people were asking for jacket recommendations & almost every other suggestion was for a Madison one. I bought some bib liner shorts from them a couple of months ago & while they are too see-through to be worn on their own, the mesh does mean they are very cool in warm weather & they are among the most comfortable shorts I have; if not the most comfortable. Sizing was spot-on; my normal medium was perfect.
    I also bought some Madison gloves that were reduced to a tenner & while they are a bit thick for height of summer wearing, they are great for spring & autumn & fit really well. Contrast that with the much more expensive 100% gloves I bought that fit very well, but had a really sharp bit (not sure what it was) sticking into the side of my hand on my first ride, which had to be cut out once home again.

    I feel like a lot of kit is massively over-priced & not great value for money, so do tend to buy last seasons colours or end of line stock.

    Pieface
    Full Member

    You do get rubbish gear across all sports, but it seems to me that MTB gear tends to be particularly prone to bad design, and I think that’s because it tends to be at the cheaper end of the market. Sure you can get cheap roadie gear, but you can also get very expensive gear, which doesn’t seem to exist in the MTB world, is that becuase people don’t want to spend money on something that’s going to get trashed, or that the benefits aren’t as important as you’re not cycling in the same position for hours on end.

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    For me, sizing is a nightmare.

    Okay, I’m a freak with 48cm calves, but I can’t be the only one with big legs… there is only a single type of knee pad that I can actually fit into, and I’ll kill them eventually just by being slightly too big for them.

    As for the rest, shorts aren’t a problem, but jackets are a nightmare. I mean, if you’re going to sell a XXL jacket, don’t you expect the owner to have shoulders and/or a bit of a gut? I guess they’re catering for that 6′ 4″ guy with a 28″ waist, oh and very long legs, because they’re pretty short too. I tend to have to buy mine from Mountain Warehouse, who can sell me a cycling jacket for £40 which I could probably bring a friend in, if needed that last years, if only they weren’t all hi-viz orange or green. How can Troy Lee / Fox et all sell me a jersey in Xl that fits me fine, but a jacket in XXL thats about 4″ narrower than my shoulders. Okay, I’m built like a 180cm Dwarf from Lord of the Rings, but shitfire.

    ayjaydoubleyou
    Full Member

    although counterpoint to P-Jay…
    what about people who are tall and skinny? I’m not even a weirdo outlyer, at 6’1 and borderline healthy weight/overweight; I’m always lamenting that M -> L -> XL only seems to give you more belly room, not getting longer legs or arms, or back panel.
    Avoiding exposing a strip of lower back means I’m confined to cycling spcific gear, no generic running tops work on my body.

    foxy90
    Free Member

    Muddy Fox mtb shorts. Used and abused for 18 months and just starting to look a but shabby. Paid about £20 for them. Just got 2 more for £22 from House of Fraser. Job done

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