Now I don't want to start a which event is best topic and perhaps my train of thought may be flawed but I wondered if anyone thought the bigger mtb events such as SITS, MM, 24/12, Transwales, etc were poor value when compared to smaller events.

If you look at entry fees and compare what you get for your cash it would seem that events like the, Dyfi, Brecon Beast, SSUK, Rough Ride, etc give far better value. I fully understand the economics of putting an event on and I know there needs to be a profit made … But I can't help thinking the smaller events are better value.

Anyone agree?… If I'm alone I'm happy to go and sit in a corner on my own.

I'd agree entirely. I also enjoy the smaller events. They have a better atmosphere as well.
I suspect somebody will be along in a minute with a continuation of the endless and frankly tedious promotion thing again.

I hear the big bike bash is better value? Someone might have mentioned it once. Or twice.

You're right and the best value event is still to come. Watch this space!

What you're saying is 'not races' are better value than races.

Which is obvious really, you have to pay to hire land for courses to race on, you don't have to pay to run an event on bridleways. You have to pay for proper timing, and intensive marshalling for races, you don't for rides.

Joe

I don`t do events as such.

Nice simple events like trailquest is as much as I would consider.

Have done Kirry 10 but only because mates wanted to and it is only 1hr away.

Personaly have seen good events starting off as "fun" alternatives to the XC race scene for the masses and then go mainstream.

Then because of forums and post event questionnaires you then get all these people wanting an events "village" with as many trade stands as possible etc.

Wonders what will happen to the newest event, stw big weekend next year??????????

Audax is the answer. £5 or less, all the cake you can eat, great routes, minimal fuss. More off road ones should be organised.

Define value?

I think it nice to be able to go to an event and not just get given a number board do a few laps and then leave a few hours later.

In an event I want to be entertained, have good racing, good food, good showers/toilets and at least some possibility of some prizes.

I know there needs to be a profit made
Why? the Big Bike Bash will be giving all the profit to charity no member of the committee will be taking a cut and we have put in some serious hours.

I honestly think the Big Bike Bash is different to all the others as our ethos was all about making it fun. It was never going to be all about the racing its just a party for people who ride bikes. I think its unique and we probably have more prizes to give away than any other event this year. Looking at what the guys won at SITS we certainly have.

Rich I'm on your side here but even a charity event wants to make a "profit" otherwise there's nothing to give to the charity.

I'll define value at a very base level … what do you come away with for your money? Some level of riding is obviously a given (I make no distinction between competetive and non competetive, unless you're elite chances are you're only competing against yourself) but what else do you get? Last week at SITS my £50 got me a camping pitch, number board, toilets and showers. At next months Brecon Beast my £26 will get me a camping pitch, number board, toilets and showers plus T shirt and pasta party … just seems better value.

I ride the trails from my door – no petrol, no fees, no camping and as many pub stops as I like. There are always trails and at least better than most event trails.

s8tannorm fair enough. Profit is only a side product though. I see Mountain Mayhem as a big business and I am sure Pat makes a good living out of promoting his events. I am sure his "profit" is different to our "profit".

I think the BBB is somewhere in between the Brecon Beast and SITS. We are not giving away T-shirts and pasta as we wanted quality stuff. You can buy seriously good food at the event at very good prices. We also have a proper real ale beer festival instead of the usual over carbonated larger.

But we are giving you camping, more live music than you can shake a stick at, more events than you may want to take part in and (what I think is the best thing is) you have more chance of going away with a decent prize than most other events as we are trying to give more spot prizes rather than just to whippets.

If you compare them to the prices of triathlons and similar events, then 24 hour MTB races seems like astonishing value for money.

I agree as well- samller events are better value

Excluding Travel costs the best 24hr race i've done is Relentless. Course and vibe wise.

Just a pity its so far away

Rich I now realise perhaps I shouldn't have used BIG in my topic heading. Spot prizes are great as everyone's in with a chance of winning something … even if it's for having the worst sunburn or just because you're number 71.

Right, racer number 71 will now win somthing at the BBB Thanks to s8tannorm.

But then some events, like last years Are You Tough Enough were let down by the spot prizes! A number of the racer people were really annoyed to have paid to slog their guts out to get an inner tube and a trophy, then watch a random get given a Dirtworker and some £200 lights!

Your entry fee at 24/12, Mayhem etc goes into funding the prize pot partially. Whether that's fair when the vast majority of people don't get a share is something else and I guess it really depends on if you want your event to appeal to the racers, or the weekend warriors.

It's not really fair to compare non-competitive events and races though, there are a number of very different costs to factor in, as Joe said.

The real ale wobble was good value with some great trails (2days worth).
Good point about triathlons as well,very expensive compared to any mtb event.Even a sprint tri which takes little over an hour can cost as much £40-£50 !

If racer 71 turns out to be s8tannorm there could be some sort of forfit though……

I think you also have to look at it against the quality of organisation and the facilities you get with it.

In terms of races, MM has some of the best showers of any event I've been to, and it's well laid out with camping around the course and a key central area. I'm not a fan of the course however, but understand the need to make it rideable for everyone, particularly in the middle of the night. The Gorrick 12:12 last year was also very well organised for a first event, and the G3 Revolver series also went well. Riders get a reasonable 'race pack' and there are some nice asides like beer at the end, or top-caps with the race logo.

On the stage race front, Trans-Wales isn't THAT expensive, but the organisation last year needed to be better, and I hope they remedy it for this year. The riding was fantastic though, even in the inclement weather. For organisation, I think the Cape Epic is the one to beat – utterly amazing given the amount of competitors and the varying ability levels, and the distances covered. It's also very good value.

Organised rides need to be looked at separately. Some of these can seem like great value, and audax's are a lot better value than most MTB ones. Equally, a short hop over to France really shows you value for your entry fee.

At the end of the day, one of the defining things about any event is the 'atmosphere' and that is a pretty hard one to buy in. Clear descriptions/marking, good routes or courses and effective organisation at the start/finish go a long way to making the event efficient and worthwhile for most competitors, and then a few memorable sections en route can leave riders delighted.

njee20 I'm not saying that effort shouldn't get rewarded. If it's a race I believe the winner should still get the 'best' prize.

Tell you what Rich … I'll donate the prize for rider 71.

Email me an address to stuart@forestfreeride.co.uk and I'll send something down to you.

Anyone do the Avalanhce Enduros? I was flabbergasted at the price. I'm a tight git though. Strong Euro meant £50 entry, no camping or showers etc. included so coughed up for a bunk house and snaffle on top of that. The goody bag was just that, a bag. Enjoyed the event but more because was up there with a load of mates and it's a good laugh. Probably go again but strictly in a non-competitor capacity.

Thats very kind of you s8tannorm I will drop you an email this evening 🙂

YGM

These things don't come cheap.

Prices (from memory) for HtN last year.

Insurance £1.50 per rider
Showers £2000+ per block
Toilets £100 each
Barriers £1/metre (and you need a lot of them)
Marking tape £50 (hundreds more if you want it with logos)
Timing £1000
Banners £1000+
First aid £1000+
Marquee & PA hire (we got ours for nowt from http://www.vlaevents.co.uk )
Website design (free again from http://www.warrenedmond.co.uk/ )

On top of that you need numbers, footpath closures (£220 for Bury, £1500 for Bolton), hire of site,advertising, payment for marshals, security, BC membership and fees for officials, hire of radios, hire of quad bikes… and on it goes. On top of this the likes of Pat and Martyn Salt and their teams have to make a wage.

Ours was a charity event so we got a lot off stuff free or at a reduced rate, and didn't keep a penny for ourselves. If we were doing this to make money then the staging cost would have been around £17k+ for an event for 450 riders, so multiply some costs for the bigger events that attract 1500-2000. Also, the bigger the event the higher the expectaions and need for quality, which again costs money.

Not cheap.

Our smaller "no frills" winter race had 1/4 of the riders for 1/12 the cost.

IMHO there is nothing wrong with the value of these events.

Cheers Harry – I was looking for my costs spreadsheet to show similar figures. We haven't reached 450 riders yet but are finally into profit (I think) but I still have nearly £4K on my credit card for stuff like beer and food.

WCA, it's a living nightmare isn't it! 🙁

Nah! What could possibly go wrong*?

*Except perhaps the Scout leader forgetting he had promised you 20 assistants, resigning from the Scouts and having no-one else you can speak too.

*One of the sponsors pulling out 10 days before the event (fortunately replaced)

*Farmer saying he 'hopes' to have the hay field mowed before we camp in it, other wise we won't be allowed to use it

*Not telling the other organisers any of this in case they panic

*Posting it up on a forum they frequent

*PANIC*
Not telling the other organisers that another band dropped out today……
*PANIC*

😉

Have you worked the electrics from the 415V to the stage yet?

No worries, I am sure something will work out.

We had a "not mowed field" incident and lost our car park. All of it!

And if you've bought your ticket for the Big Bike Bash and drink lager don't panic we've found some cans of skol form 1986 knocking around in the shed 🙂
And we've also got some proper cider sorted 🙂

How about a prize for say…….
Number 28
😆

Audax is the answer. £5 or less, all the cake you can eat, great routes, minimal fuss. More off road ones should be organised.

I'll admit I don't know too much about it, but wouldn't any road events be easier, and therefore cheaper, to organise than an off-road equivalent? No (or less) access or liability issues to worry about, easier to get marshalls (if there are any) to where they need to be, less need for facilities at the start/end etc etc etc…

Being cynical I dont think its got anything to do with large events costing more – the costs scale up or down.

I reckon if theres more people likely to come then it seems more attractive so you can charge more. Simple economics at play. If it costs £50 to enter and loads of people go each year then people will pay that much.

Smaller events are less well known, attract fewer people so you cant charge as much.

Sorry Stuart, a little slow on the hint,

welsh ride thing 09 was excellent value, three days of top notch riding hardly seeing a soul and not getting a phone signal for the duration, brilliant.

will that do? Do I get free entry for next year now?

when I competed some years back in mainly running events, it was the same then. The best events were the local village stuff where food would be laid on for all in the local hall.

Aaaaagh thoses were the days 😆