I’ve been on a course that I’d rather not mention, but let’s say it makes others look great. I’ve also been on a course with Ed as well as a few visits to Jedi. Jedi is the one I recommend to friends. The wife has been down twice and recently, he had her clearing the 6′ table top so well, she didn’t even notice. Wouldn’t believe him until she saw the pictures.

The guys that be been Jedi d and Oxed which would you reckon be note useful for enduro racing?

I would say if you were looking for racing specific coaching then either go to Neil Donoghue or one of the Rafferty brothers as they all race Enduro’s and have great reputations as coaches.

I think you need to find an instructor that has a style that works for you. I really didn’t get on well on a Jedi session. I appreciate I am in a minority based on the reports on here. Apparently I was the first person he couldn’t teach to jump 😥

Not meaning to single you out zilog, but this crops up quite a bit on here. What were you(s) doing for all those years? Riding a bike a not doing jumps? It’s as if this guy never existed

got into it too late, so no bottle! 😀

Just to second what onza said above, when you’re riding the “Jedi way” it actually feels like you’re barely doing anything, effortless like! As opposed to before, when I was fighting the bike to get it to do what I wanted!

I’ve been on a few (won’t name names apart from one was Jedi and one wasn’t Ed-O), and the only one I’d recommend of those is Jedi. He had me riding the tabletops and steep drops into the quarry that had my arse puckering severely before we started, but by the end was only mild panic 😉

Whether it was good for racing – I reckon so, getting down trails with much better flow = less effort, less loss of speed, and better control has to make you faster and allow you to save your effort for pedalling where you need it.

I don’t understand people who say they don’t need coaching. The best sportsmen in the world, of any discipline, are all regularly coached. Nadal, Ennis, Ronaldo, Hoy, etc. To think you won’t benefit from QUALITY coaching is naive at best.

And re Evil Knievel. He was a great daredevil but a piss awful jumper. No wonder he was always crashing, with his showy back wheel landings. Watch the proper MX / bmx jumpers, nosing in on the landing ramps. Just daft to land a bike on the one wheel that you don’t steer with! As a kid I used to build ramps and jumps to be like him, and I’ve got the scars on knees and elbows to prove it. Jedi retaught me in a few minutes.

Jedi has been highly recommended by many students, and from knowing Tony over the years I could add he is a good guy and a passionate rider who has put a lot in the “scene” with Herts Shore and then his coaching

something to understand about coaching is that the top riders often are not the best coaches

many top riders cannot quantify what they do, or how, because they have been riding so long its instinctual

a good coach has a very different and specific skillset, and this is something many comment Jedi has in abundance which includes patience and communication, and ability to analyse what is happening, why and making the necessary corrections

not saying I was a “top rider” but I used to regularly ride this kind of stuff, and would not have a clue where to start with coaching other riders! I would always recommend a proper coach like Jedi 🙂

Im going to throw another name in the mix . I had a 4 hr coaching session with tom dowie at chicksands bike park , he was very well priced for 1 on 1 tuition , clear and easy to understand, a really great teacher,very patiant and the course was tailored to my needs after he assessed my abilities and included a bit of everything.

tom is a top 4x rider and is off to the world champs next week to represent great Britain so you know your getting coached by someone who really knows how to ride:)

I learnt a huge amount and everytime I ride now I can see myself using everything he taught me , im quicker and much more confidant in my abilities especially in the air , I will definitely be booking a follow up session in the near future 🙂

Theraggyone, just curious to know if you’ve been coached by either Jedi or Ed to get a comparison to Tom.

Unfortunatly not so I cant offer a comparison ,but as chicksands is local to me it was a no brainer to try him and im glad I did:)

I’ve come back to MTB (meaning all bike activity as well) after a very long gap (>20 yrs) and have no MTB coaching experience other than from a Singletrack Skills Day with Jedi earlier this year after being back to MTB riding for about 18 months. I have nothing to compare with, but have nothing for praise for Jedi’s methods and ethos – both are equally important and significant in my mind.

What Jedi teaches is so simple it’s comically effective – I was grinning like a mad-man at times during the course because it suddenly became so easy both mentally and practically. Thus, I would echo any recommendation to go see Jedi but clearly, I have limited experience so take from my experience what you will.

On the other hand, I am a former Great Britain international in another sport and would echo the sentiment from earlier in this thread that innate ability and coaching ability are related but excellence at one does not imply excellence at the other.

From my experience, no matter how good you are (and I mean right up to 1st/2nd in the world at a given sport), coaching has its place and is part of the deal – I have been subject to it and have positively encouraged it and have benefitted from it. Can you think of an Olympic athelete without a coach?

And no – whilst I coach at my former sport as best I can, I don’t coach above beginner level because I’m not that good at coaching!

Stu

I did the Pro Ride guides course up at Stainburn with Joe Rafferty, definitely worth the money, learnt a great deal from it, you can tell they’re enduro racers and it shows in their coaching although that’s not to say they don’t teach jumping, just that the fastest and smoothest way often means flattening the jump. I definitely feel I came away a more competent rider. Also watching them ride sections at slow motion speed to let you see exactly what’s happening then re riding it at full race speed is jaw dropping! Plus a lot of people don’t realise that the Pro Ride guides actually train other skills coaches!

Actually, whilst typing, esher shore said it better than I did. This ^….

Stu

Stu what did you do? (If you dont mind me asking)

Kimbers, for Enduro racing I’d edge towards Ed O. He had me riding “quicker lines” that would have been the opposite of the line I would have picked. I think he races himself too.

And re Evil Knievel. He was a great daredevil but a piss awful jumper. No wonder he was always crashing, with his showy back wheel landings. Watch the proper MX / bmx jumpers, nosing in on the landing ramps.

I doubt any of the top mx boys (inspired by riders inspired by Kinevel) would even attempt what he did on the bikes that he did it on. Evil was the man. And the fact that he kept on being the man after every crash makes him the man, squared. Shame on you 😀

nowmefeelinit – Member
esher shore said »
something to understand about coaching is that the top riders often are not the best coaches
many top riders cannot quantify what they do, or how, because they have been riding so long its instinctual
a good coach has a very different and specific skillset, and this is something many comment Jedi has in abundance which includes patience and communication, and ability to analyse what is happening, why and making the necessary corrections
Actually, whilst typing, esher shore said it better than I did. This ^….

Stu

too true

a few years ago I was asked to do a section for the “Haynes” bike skills book, as well as riding the bike on the wooden trail at esher, I was asked to contribute the “how to” for this section

no shame in admitting they had to “rewrite” my how to, as my inane ramblings probably made no sense to anyone!

Hora – not at all. Fullbore Target Rifle Shooting. For the uninitiated: outdoor, single shot, bolt action, iron sights (no telescopic sights), 7.62 mm calibre, min 300 yds, max 1000 yds range. Come rain, snow or shine, you’re lying on the ground a long way from what you’re shooting at and no excuses – only a central bull will do (and damn it’s hot in lying in the sun in South Africa or Canada in the summer with full kit on – to the point of reaching anyone’s physical limits). Being able to shoot straight in such circumstances is a given at international level although surprisingly, momentary lapses of this basic skill was what let anyone down as much as anything else. Beyond being able to shoot straight, reading wind/weather is key – a 10 kt gust of wind could put you off the target at 1000 yds and competitions are won and lost on much less than that.

It’s not an Olympic sport but it is a Commonwealth Games Sport – whilst never quite good enough to compete at CG level I’ve represented both GB and England internationally around the world.

As for the translation to cycling, the muscle groups and aerobic aspects are clearly different (although I was damn fit whilst competing due to a surprising aerobic requirement for international shooting to cope with extreme hot/cold conditions) – but the process of coaching and the mental mapping is identical. In fact, some of the coaching sessions we had were away from the firing point and with other discipline coaches. I guess the similarity is aiming to develop technique and ability plus mental resilience/adaptability to cope with whatever is thrown at you without thinking too hard about it. And from my experience of MTB coaching, Jedi’s right on the money.

Sorry I didn’t turn out to be an undercover Ussain Bolt!

Stu

What are peoples experiences with Chase skills?

Richie McCoy is the best.

i recently did a two day course with Stuart at forest freeride near Mach in mid wales. I can’t recommend it enough. A purpose built training area and one price whether its just yourself or with others.

+1 for Tom Dowie. Great guy, very patient and very effective. I went to him after Jedi for info.

Skills courses are the new “bike fit”

All well and good, go and taught how to do something.

There’s no substitute for practice though, you need to practice what you’ve been taught over and over till it comes naturally.

But practice doesn’t make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

Onzadog – Member

Of those who are suggesting Jedi or Ed (generally the two most popular suggestions on such threads), how many have first hand experience of both?

I have, and intrestingly my conclusion is the opposite of Onzadog’s – I’d recommend Ed O.

But practice doesn’t make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

Depends what you mean by perfect. Everyone has their own way of doing things. Watch any of the top riders, they all have their own style.

I recently had a second day with stu at forest freeride after a three year gap. As with all good coaches, youvride lines at the end of the day you could not imagine at the start. It will probably take at least another year to assimilate what i learned this time. I’m an advocate of coaching

Unless you’ve been to several different coaches you cannot say “so and so is the best”

best is probably never found 🙂
The best person for you is the person who can communicate with you, convince you and help you.

I have had 1 paid for session and seen a few others going on, been in groups where a guide is coaching people and general other riders chipping in. My missus has done a few with different people and has had different experiences with all of them.

The coach needs to have skills but doesn’t need to be the best. Some of the “Big Name/Racers” might not be the best coaches – you can’t learn much from the guy who explains landing a jump as “You Just Do” etc. some people can be amazing riders but not be able to tell you how they do it or work out how you should do it.

I did a 1 on 1 session with Craig from Cyclewise (Whinlatter) sound guy, great coach and rider. I have ridden with a few of the guys who coach up there socially and it’s great to hear some advice at the end of a descent or climb. For that I would recommend them as good guys, down to earth and great at communicating with a good course structure.

On the subject of what do you do on a course? If your going to get the most out of it you need to know what you want from it. If it’s a group beginners course are you at the same level as the others – if not it could either mean you get lots of extra help at the expense of the group or not enough. Sometimes mates are not the best people to go with as you don’t always need the peer pressure element.

If you can afford a 1 on 1 or 2:1 course with someone with the same needs/ambitions then that would be my preference. Spend some time thinking about where you are, what you can’t/won’t/don’t do and what you would like to do. My session was in the run up to the mega so was focussed on flow, speed, racing & efficiency.

Final thing, if your going to invest in the skills invest the time to practice them. Turn up to rides early and get some extra practice in round the car park etc.

David, by perfect practice I mean don’t practice mistakes. Find out what you need to be doing and practice that. People may have different styles but some stuff is universally wrong. Practice that a 1000 times and you’ve not made it perfect, you’ve just perfected a bad habit.

It’s what I’d done by riding around over twenty years before getting coached by someone who could spot it, knows what they’re doing and most importantly, could change what I was doing.

I’ve been to see Ed & Jedi (I don’t mind admitting to being a a coaching addict 🙂 ). Sadly I can’t really give a proper comparison because Tony taught me one to one in his properly groomed, airtime paradise, Ed’s was the Flow course at Lee/Crag Quarry.

Tony had me doing his easier gaps and Ed taught me the importance of ‘pumping’. Might give the Raffertys a go next year…

As a 42 yr old, I’d like to still be riding at 62 but to get satisfaction from my riding I need to feel like I’m getting better each year. My boy’s only 2 3/4’s so I don’t want to get my arse kicked too badly as he grows up!

I have never been a natural at any sport but I have one or two friends that pick up any sport almost instantly. If this is you then consider yourself lucky, some of us need a little help…

If it works [well] for you, why change? As you say, different people have different styles.

Skills Courses seem to be for those who aren’t happy with one or more aspects of their riding skills.

But what if you are happy, and can’t think of anything you’d pay someone to help you improve on? (The question nobody’s asked!)

(jumping 20ft doubles on a BMX track, riding silly steep DH tracks, pumping terrain when required, etc etc.)

(ignoring the “you must be a riding God then” comments…. just sounds like jealousy 😉 )

Stu at forest freeride spent most of the morning with me working on refining flat cornering technique and then working different approaches to a set of corners to maximise control with speed.

After ironing problems with my flat takeoff technique for an hour, We then added in small jump into the set of corners and worked on take off approaches to hit the corners right.

We had a quick play on a switchback before heading to a small steep jump line. Starting with the bottom jump we just worked on variations of entry speed vs push speed until I had it spot on clearing a good distance and cleanly landing wheels together every time. Then rolled the first jump, to corner, check speed and launch the bottom jump. Working up to launching the top jump, fast steep corner, hard speed check and launch the second.

He’s not teaching to “do the gap jump” but working you towards overall competency in bike handling. One of his clients apparently said “you make it look boring” lol! Because it looks like nothing but you have control, confidence and flow.

I have done some coaching with Jedi and Rowan Sorrel.

Both different but both pretty good and got stuff from both.

If it works [well] for you, why change? As you say, different people have different styles.

Fair comment. I do understand this – eg: skiing, I have a long standing knee injury that means that really my days of skiing blacks and mogul fields are in the past. But, I love being in the mountains, enjoying cruising around and stopping for a hot chocolate at a mountain cafe and enjoying the views. i don’t need any more coaching to enable me to do that.

But MTB’ing – yes, there are some aspects i still can’t do, and some I can do but want to get better at. And with all due respect to the counter arguers, practising the wrong things over and over will only make me better at doing the wrong things, i need(ed) an expert eye to unpick the small errors that i was making and help me do them properly. And then I needed to go and practise doing the right things over and over.

Done both. Tony a few years back before he moved it to Herts (we were at woburn) and with Ed this year as ‘alpine prep’. Very different and both great for me. Tony just ‘reboots’ your riding getting you to repeat a few basic techniques that come together as you ride the trails. Ed was picking on specific things – which for me were ‘too far back’ and ‘braking too late’ which sound really simple but sometimes you need to be told.

For me, both made me realise I can ride a bike. Occasionally quite quickly but not always in control. I think the ‘boring’ comment has merit here because when you’re smooth you can be fast and it’s no drama. When you’re fast and not smooth it certainly is.

I’d definitely do another one. Bad habits creep back in and most people (blokes especially) try and ride round the problem by attempting to go faster. One thing I learned with both Ed and Tony was how much faster you REALLY are if you set up for corners/jumps/drops properly and at the right speed rather than piling in trusting your suspension.

I don’t have a direct comparison but I wrote them both up here.

Ed: http://pickled-hedgehog.com/?p=2863
Tony: http://pickled-hedgehog.com/?p=1791

Done both of the Stop Crashing courses with Ed and recently treated myself to a 1-2-1 day.

On the latter, we rode Blue Pig and Peckett Well as well as the Hebden Bridge Bikepark (well, it’s a bit of concrete with some old doors and bits of industrial detritus on it, used to be a mill, spot on for practising bunny hops and drop-offs).

I got a huge amount out of the day. Ed spotted some mistakes in my riding and inspired me to attempt lines and, more importantly, speeds that I wouldn’t on my own.

I’d had a good think about what I wanted to improve and what I felt I was getting/doing wrong and Ed worked on that (whoever you choose I think it’s important to work out precisely what you want from the sessions before you go, makes you think about your own riding etc which is no bad thing).

Ed’s good company, you can have a laugh etc which counts for a lot.

I’d recommend. If you don’t ride in the area you also get to experience some cracking trails.

Went on a course with Dirt School a few years ago and that was top notch. Two months ago a group of us did Ed O’s Alpine Prep course, it was fantastic. Both Andy Barlow and Ed O are fantastic coaches.

Ed has a great knack of making the complex, simple and really adding value to each individual rider.

Ive used both Jedi and Tom Dowie.

Ive been back to Tom again and will do so again and again. But whoever you pick – do it one on one and you will get the most out of it. Dont do it in a large group unless its free.