Planning on swapping some hubs over to some new rims and spokes but have never done more than replace a single spoke.

Is it as simple as tape the two rims together and swap one spoke at a time or am I best reading/watching something?

I don’t have any wheel holding equipment.

If changing spokes as well, do a build from scratch. Too much effort bending the spokes between each other otherwise.

I used the Sheldon Brown guide to learn wheel building.

First determine nipple length and ERD on existing
Next determine how close that is to the new one and adjust nipples if possible/needed (more than 2mm)
To be honest as nipples are cheap often a good idea to swap anyway if existing ones are alloy

Then tape the spokes in the wheel up (masking tape is good) across the crosses .. loosen and remove.
Take new rim and check for orientation and tape to existing rim .. loosen one by one and start sticking them in…

Then tighten as per normal wheel build

If changing spokes as well, do a build from scratch.

+1 to that. But yes, if it was rim-only then taping the rims side by side and moving one spoke at a time works well. I started doing rim swaps like that before progressing to full builds from scratch – it was a good way to learn truing etc without the whole shebang of lacing from scratch.

Rim swap. Ive heard it can be done. You woould have to really slacken the spokes off and move them over in the correct order to give you the flex to do it.

However, the only thing it saves is having to lace the spokes up correctly, which isnt all that hard to do.
you still need to tension them all up again. As i say, ive heard it can be done, but when ive done it ive just stripped the wheel down to a pile of spokes and rebuilt it.

some will tell you youll die if you reuse spokes, but thats rot. worst case is a couple snap, and then you jkust replace them as normal.

Either way you go, heres the reference ive always used:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Yep, agree. It sounds like it should be easier but it’ll end up being a massive faff.

Unasked for, but, buy one of these, or if you’re feeling fancy an adjustable equivalent like the BSC
https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Unior-Speed-Nipple-Bit_248958.htm?sku=851846&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Home%20and%20workshop%20tools&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmouZBhDSARIsALYcouq1HfjR0NF9Ttrl4bIBJyxtGCHmFoqYYn-pZcVSFPutpU-KfUhOCNIaAoLuEALw_wcB

Doesn’t look like much, but, by threading all the spokes equally you get a perfect start on your wheel. It seems like it’s just a time saver but it’s not, it’s a job simplifier/cheat. Doesn’t work on funky modern nipples but does work on proper ones. I have the Cyclus, it’s genuinely one of my favourite tools ever

I’d definitely rebuild if using new spokes. Ali Clarkson has some great videos on Youtube that show what a simple process it is. Sheldon Brown is, of course, an excellent resource. There’s nothing more terrifying satisfying than riding wheels that you built yourself.

As stated above, it’s ok if it is an identical rim, but the replacement rim will need the same ERD or you will need different length spokes.

If you see a ++ in the ERD figure, add 2mm per spoke.

I’ve done a like for like swap before by taping the spokes so they stay in the snow flake pattern. Then remove old rim and put new one into place. Quicker than a full relace.

just a rim swap just loosen the wheel, tape the rims together, move one side of spokes over then the other. really simple.

If you need spokes as well because its a different rim then sheldon is the man. getting the valve right is teh hardest part but the still works if you get it in the wrong place and cant be arsed to unlace and start again. not that i would know that of course…

Sheldon’s guide +1

Read it first very carefully before you start as some important points are easy to miss.

Nipple length depends on the nipples’, the spokes should finish flush with the screwdriver slot in the top, so doesn’t change with nipple length. The DT calculator takes off 1mm for 2mm change in nipple length so I’ve kinda assumed the threads must split the difference. So a 12mm nipple has X mm thead, 14mm X+1, 16mm X+2, but that’s just a hunch. In reality I’ve used 12 and 14mm interchangeably.

Spoke length, set the DT calc to 12mm nipples and round down upto about 1.4mm or up 0.6mm. They need to be shorter, but not by too much.

not that i would know that of course…

Me neither, definitely not. It’s a mistake you won’t make more than once. Apparently.

I swapped a rear hub. De laced the the wheel carefully and then rebuilt whilst watching, pausing and re watching the park tools video that is on YouTube. Wheel is in good shape 1 year later.

The thing that surprised me, first time, is that building a wheel with new spokes and rim is easier than straightening an old wheel. Pretty much any competent person won’t hesitate to try that, but building a whole wheel seems scarier. But you only have to deal with that, you don’t need to deal with fighting the old rim whatever shape it now is, and all the old spoke tension.

+1 on the ali clarkson wheel building vid, I have now built half a dozen wheels and only died once.
+1 on new build being surprisingly easy compared to straightening a bent out of shape old rim!

However, the only thing it saves is having to lace the spokes up correctly, which isnt all that hard to do.

It’s not hard its just time consuming.

As stated above, it’s ok if it is an identical rim, but the replacement rim will need the same ERD or you will need different length spokes.

Or different length nipples ..

Or different length nipples ..

As long as you are happy it is a bodge. I would want<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”> the spokes to go through the rim bed and into the nipple head. </span>

Having bought spokes that were too short as I missed the ++ in the Raceface ERD figures and laced it up, I have spent a long time looking at the wheel before I started again with the correct length spokes.

As long as you are happy it is a bodge. I would want the spokes to go through the rim bed and into the nipple head.

True but I’ve always bought the replacement rim after having a look based on the As-IS and TO-BE ERD and where the spoke head currently sits. (Then taking a piece of paper and actually drawing it for good measure) then working out how far theoretically it will be “out”.

1-2mm is rarely an issue anyway if they are “ideal” lengths to start off… and sometimes adding/removing 1-2mm actually gets them better (especially factory built wheels tend to come on bikes) and its within the amount you’d dish from non-boost to boost.

So long as you aren’t going the other way and swapping hub the differences are often not much and I’ve found the extra flexibility of swapping nipples and taking the opportunity to swap alloy for brass has been a bodge on a fairly acceptable scale.

If you are using new spokes then start as it’s a new wheel. I use Roger Mussons book. If you type into google roger mussons pdf you’ll find it for free.

I’ve built a few wheel sets from scratch and done some rim only swaps before.
For the rim only (using same spokes), you can purchase a rim with the same ERD, align the valve holes and zip tie the new rim to the old rim (making sure of orientation of the spoke holes line up). Loosen the spokes and then move then across to the new rim one at a time.

Thanks for all the advice. Looks like there’s a 3mm difference on ERD, so new spokes required.
I’m conflicted.

3mm difference on erd isn’t automatically new spokes. That’s only a 1.5mm difference on the spokes. With the 2mm steps in spoke length you might be ok depending on which end the tolerance you are sitting. Have a look at the top of the nipples and see where the thread sits.

So the rims I’d be going to would be an extra 3mm. Are you saying that if the spokes are a long way into the nipple i may get away with it?

Yep. If the spokes poke into the nipple slot, even a tiny bit, then they’ll be fine imo.

On the subject of rims, if you haven’t already bought them, R2 bike are doing DT Swiss EX511 at a great price with no VAT or import duty (spend under £135) and quick delivery.
I just got a pair for around £110 including new nipples & washers

I’m in Oz and can get a pretty good price on a pair from a local guy it seems. Less than 200 quid equivalent.

Stick up a psa