Hi all – my wife and I have a few hundred quids worth of john lewis vouchers that we’re thinking of spending on a cordless vacuum. I’m vaguely aware that the Dyson ones are probably the best, but given we loathe the guy (brexit etc) we’re not getting one of those, so what is next best?

Vax blade 2 40v

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/dull-what-cordless-vacuum-cleaner/

A few people I know have been raving about how good their new G Tech Air Rams are.

Great cheers all – that Vax thing seems just the ticket, and best of all no need to give that odious fungus any money.

My dads wife has both a Dyson cordless and a G Tech Air Ram. The latter is good but not a patch on the Dyson according to her. She has cats and dogs so pet hair is a particular issue for her so probably on the more challenging side of what you’re asking these things to do, so performance might be closer for more normal use.

But you’re out of luck because the founder of G Tech also voted to leave the EU for similar reasons as Dyson did, so I guess that’s the Air Ram struck off the list too.

It’s a bit sad people are boycotting companies just because of the way they voted. Very childish. Would you stop one of your employees getting a promotion because they voted leave, or refused a tenancy to someone wanting to rent your house?

It’s a bit sad people are boycotting companies just because of the way they voted.

It’s the OPs money they are entitled to spend it with who they like. Your examples are actual unfair discrimination. There’s a difference.

If Mr Dyson really believed in the UK perhaps he could manufacture his products here.

I like the G Tech Air Ram. I’ve become my elderly mum’s cleaner in recent years and I can fly around her terraced house with it in next to no time.

The only minor down side is they don’t hold a lot in their bin. Not a problem at my mum’s as she lives alone, is pretty tidy and doesn’t have any pets. May be more of a problem in a house full of kids and pets. Piece of proverbial to empty and clean the filters though.

They don’t half have some sucking power as well. When I first started using it, it was sucking up lots of dust from deep in her carpets that her previous Dyson Ball wasn’t touching.

It’s not in the same category but we have the Vax H85 Gator, and it’s rubbish. The outlaws have a Dyson handheld and it’s incredible, except the battery life is terrible.

“Your examples are actual unfair discrimination.”

Dunno about unfair but it wouldn’t be illegal to discriminate on the basis of political belief. https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

According to Which?:
Samsung Power Stick Pro 150W (handheld design like a Dyson and outscores the v10)
Bosch Athlet Ultimate BCH732KTGB (more a conventional design although does have a handheld option)

I actually have a Dyson v10 and it’s great – whilst I also disagree with his position on Brexit I’m not sure it’s a sensible thing to base purchases on, I’m sure you’ve bought other stuff from companies with pro-Brexit leaders, they just aren’t as vocal about it.

If Mr Dyson really believed in the UK perhaps he could manufacture his products here

It’s a good point. I would pay over the odds for that. (Which given how expensive they already are – doesn’t near thinking about.)

The alternatives are all likely built in China anyway so it’s lose lose.

Miele need to do a handheld as they still build in Germany.

We are very impressed by the Shark we got a few months ago. Even gave away the mains Dyson it was intended just to supplement.

Would you stop one of your employees getting a promotion because they voted Leave

Well, I might. Unless they could come up with a well reasoned argument as to why, I’d say it indicated that they were at best irrational and at worst bigoted, and those aren’t qualities I’d be looking for in my management team.

We’ve a Dyson cordless, it’s a bit cack if you have a pet. The cleaning head air channels block with tedious monotony due to the dog hair. Fortunately the kit comes apart with a large flat-bladed screwdriver, but it needs doing every other use. 6 minutes run time on turbo is not much cop either. The Vax wasn’t much better.

But you’re out of luck because the founder of G Tech also voted to leave the EU for similar reasons as Dyson did

Damn. that sucks

at worst bigoted

They wouldn’t be the only one. I would also not buy from Tory party funders, vocal Brexit people etc,. out of choice but it is not worth my time researching the CEOs views, company biases etc,. of every product I buy. Must take up a good amount of time for you?

Looking on with interest to see the recommended products… however…When posting recommendations….could you also post how the board and or the work force voted … I need to make the right decision. Plus I am thinking of getting an Orange Stage 4 but……

David Winterbottom is or was the man in charge at Vax…ex Dyson man I believe. Anyone know how he voted?

It’s a good point.

It isn’t really. He has proved to be a massive supporter of UK industry. Dyson is a much bugger employer through its research and engineering centre now than it was when they had production lines here. There also dyson sponsored grants and bursaries, design prizes, the dyson institute of engineering and technology, and more. I don’t agree with his brexit stance but its got nothing to do with not backing the UK

We have a vax blade and its brilliant, the brush head is motorised so it picks up everything. First time i used it it picked up an enormous amount of hair (3 long haired girls in this house) that our corded samsung had never picked up. I dont know who the CEO voted for but his product was a good vacuum and thats what i was looking for, not a brexit leaver.

Never tried a Vax, but we have an AirRam and a Dyson cordless: the Dyson is far, far better.

Dyson is a much bugger employer through its research and engineering centre now than it was when they had production lines here.

But presumably they’d be even bigger / bugger employer in the UK if they manufactured here as well?

it is not worth my time researching the CEOs views, company biases etc,. of every product I buy. Must take up a good amount of time for you?

It hardly takes any time to find out his views, he was pretty vocal in his support for leave. He had a choice whether or not to be vocal about his support and took it. If he loses a few sales as a result he obviously thought it was worth it.

But presumably they’d be even bigger / bugger employer in the UK if they manufactured here as well?

Not necessarily. When the first production lines went to Malaysia it was very much an either or thing. Either expand UK manufacturing or expand the research and engineering centre. There wasn’t the option to easily do both so production lines moved and the research centre expanded. Its a funny company really. The manufacturing is just a means to an end, a necessary evil. It really wants to be a research and development company but it has to sell things to pay the bills and justify doing the research.

Whilst I may not base all of my purchases on whether I agree with the morality of the person that runs a company, if someone is going to shout from the roof tops about it, of course i’ll factor it in. Presumably he made a calculation that supporting brexit would have some impact (positive or negative) on his sales and he was fine with it.

He has pedalled the standard brexit lies, whilst simultaneously covering himself before the poo hits the airblade. For further examples see Redwood, Reese-Mogg, etc.

I don’t think it’s massively strange to include morality as one of the factors used when making a decision. It may not be the only factor, or even the overriding one, but it can still be a factor.

I’m sure i’ll get some stick for calling campaigning to leave a moral decision, but I do think it is for someone like James Dyson. He’s clearly a clever bloke (and therefore can’t hide behind ignorance), and it’s hard for me to see how someone like that thinks that leaving the EU is not going to have a negative impact on the lives of thousands of people much poorer than him, and he’s basically shrugged his shoulders and said ‘well i’ll be ok, or perhaps make even more money’. That is immoral.

If Mr Dyson really believed in the UK perhaps he could manufacture his products here.

Not a Dyson fan them? Maybe you’re a Trump fan as you seem to hold a very similar opinion to him on this topic then!

Seriously…you need to educate yourself a bit more about Dyson and how he’s investing in the UK and young people getting into STEM career’s.

And so what if he voted for Brexit. He’s not alone amongst successful entrepreneurial business leaders who export their products all over the world and looking to expand and grow their businesses…maybe there is a clue there as to the reasons they voted to leave and some of the limitations and restrictions the EU imposes on their particular businesses. He’s obviously voting on the basis of what’s best for his business, other people are voting on other criteria – some objective, some subjective. If you own a business that exports primarily to the EU then you’d take a different stance I’m sure.

Would you stop one of your employees getting a promotion because they voted Leave

Well, I might. Unless they could come up with a well reasoned argument as to why, I’d say it indicated that they were at best irrational and at worst bigoted, and those aren’t qualities I’d be looking for in my management team.

This is one of the most bigoted things I’ve ever read in respect to the Brexit debate. And the arrogance to think others have to justify their personal political opinions to you. I really hope you’re not in a position to exercise this sort of power or ever get close to a position where you might be able to. Discrimination is discrimination whether it is against skin colour, religion or political opinions.

’m sure i’ll get some stick for calling campaigning to leave a moral decision, but I do think it is for someone like James Dyson. He’s clearly a clever bloke (and therefore can’t hide behind ignorance), and it’s hard for me to see how someone like that thinks that leaving the EU is not going to have a negative impact on the lives of thousands of people much poorer than him, and he’s basically shrugged his shoulders and said ‘well i’ll be ok, or perhaps make even more money’. That is immoral.

Ah, you’re bringing morals into it now. Well that clears things up then!…the problem is who gets to decide what’s moral or not. You? Maybe the moral thing to do is to ensure UK businesses have all the best opportunities to thrive and grow thereby generating more jobs for people and wealth for the nation. If you’re Dyson, the head of a company that exports most if its products to non-EU countries, then you’re opinion on what is needed to make the UK businesses thrive will be different than if you have a business that relies on exports to the EU. You see…it’s not so simple. You can bet your bottom dollar that Dyson has voted based on what will benefit his business. He exports all over the world so knows a thing or two (more than most) about how best to exploit the global economy and he’s not alone amongst successful business entrepreneurs who export globally in the way he voted.

Hmm for a minute there I thought that this thread was about vacuum cleaners….

Our Dyson V10 is awesome and no cordless I’ve tried comes close to it.
It’ll pick up the dog hair no bother and use about 2/3 battery when cleaning the whole house thoroughly or 1/4 when running through daily. Easy to empty, charge & handle. It’s really not worth looking elsewhere. John Lewis will price match with some of the bargain online retailers. We got ours half price through price matching with JL.

It hardly takes any time to find out his views, he was pretty vocal in his support for leave.

Yes, well aware of his view thanks. Also well aware that he is supporting the UK.
The comment I made was “it is not worth my time researching the CEOs views, company biases etc,. of every product I buy. Must take up a good amount of time for you?”

So we know about Dyson. I have just bought a seatpost from Wiggle. So I would have needed to look into the CEO and company views of Wiggle. And probably also need to look into Thomson to make sure they are not Trump supporters while I am at it.

What I’m taking from this conversation is that unless you buy from Dyson you’re some form of bigot. Funny that I thought when you were the customer you could choose the product based upon your own preferences.

To be honest we’re way past what is ethically sound when purchasing most white goods in this country, anyone would think Brexit was the only political factor involved in purchasing here.

Subscribe to Ethical consumer – you will never buy anything again.

I think that ship sailed the minute we wanted to pay less for our crap.

Ah, you’re bringing morals into it now. Well that clears things up then!…the problem is who gets to decide what’s moral or not. You? Maybe the moral thing to do is to ensure UK businesses have all the best opportunities to thrive and grow thereby generating more jobs for people and wealth for the nation. If you’re Dyson, the head of a company that exports most if its products to non-EU countries, then you’re opinion on what is needed to make the UK businesses thrive will be different than if you have a business that relies on exports to the EU. You see…it’s not so simple. You can bet your bottom dollar that Dyson has voted based on what will benefit his business. He exports all over the world so knows a thing or two (more than most) about how best to exploit the global economy and he’s not alone amongst successful business entrepreneurs who export globally in the way he voted.

Let me break down my thoughts.

1) Hopefully, you’ll agree that there is a generally accepted moral principle that where possible one should help those in need / those less fortunate than yourself. This is tempered by the ease in which you can help them, for example, I would think you’d be portrayed as a monster if you stepped over someone lying on a path bleeding to death whilst holding a bandage, but you’d probably not be classed as a monster if you were eating your dinner, and didn’t travel to the otherside of the world to share it with someone who is hungry.

2) I think that political decisions can impact the lives of real people. Hopefully that is also not too much of a controversial point. Assuming you agree with point 1) then i’d say that you have an ethical/moral obligation not to aid political decisions that will have a negative impact on other people, where there isn’t an undue cost to you. Given that Dyson is under no duress to campaign for leave, it’s hard to argue that not campaigning for leave would have any impact on him.

3) You mention that he may think that the thing that’ll benefit his business is leaving the EU and that he may think that that is what will make british business thrive. Even if he does think that, it still doesn’t get him off the hook. The majority of export business is to the EU, so even if leaving the EU, will ultimately result in some kind of magical sunlit upland in 20 years time, it would be extremely hard to argue that there won’t be some significant detrimental impact to the lives of a greater number of people than if we didn’t leave the EU. Conversely you could argue that perhaps he was campaigning on behalf of leave because he wanted a specific type of leave, for example, where we’d get an extra special trade deal with the EU that no one else has got. However that argument isn’t really valid as that wasn’t the question posed – it was remain or leave. Given those two choices, and call it the lesser of two evils if you want, leave is clearly the choice most likely to have a negative impact on the greater number of people. Obviously there is a chance that leave will have a positive impact, but given that there was a one version of remain (the current situation + the concessions Cameron got) that was 100% known, vs. a large number of leave scenarios, it doesn’t really stand up as an argument.

That’s my reasoning.

Hopefully, you’ll agree that there is a generally accepted moral principle that where possible one should help those in need / those less fortunate than yourself. This is tempered by the ease in which you can help them, for example, I would think you’d be portrayed as a monster if you stepped over someone lying on a path bleeding to death whilst holding a bandage, but you’d probably not be classed as a monster if you were eating your dinner, and didn’t travel to the otherside of the world to share it with someone who is hungry.

Out of interest where would spending £300 on a vacuum cleaner rather than, say, giving the money to homeless charity fit in that scale? 😈

Out of interest where would spending £300 on a vacuum cleaner rather than, say, giving the money to homeless charity fit in that scale? 😈

Closer to the OK end of things than a billionaire campaigning for brexit. It certainly involves more cost to me – an angry wife if nothing else.

This is one of the most bigoted things I’ve ever read in respect to the Brexit debate. And the arrogance to think others have to justify their personal political opinions to you

I’ve never suggested people should justify their political opinions, just that they should show some evidence of a logical thought process. That’s one of the things I recruit and promote for, the ability to think and reason clearly. You have actually made a case for Dyson’s position being logical and rational, based on his own self interest, rather than what is best for the country, and that’s fine. It is also logical to want to avoid supporting someone who is prepared to damage his country for his own enrichment.

I have been contemplating getting a cordless vacuum cleaner, so some of this thread has been useful.

Not a Dyson fan them? Maybe you’re a Trump fan as you seem to hold a very similar opinion to him on this topic then!

Please enlighten me? Does Trump not like Dyson vacuums? (Edit: Actually I assume you mean a protectionist state idea, with everything sold here made here? I’m not for that, besides we don’t have the cheap labour of a prisoner workforce to make it possible like the US has. In the EU country of Germany the manufacturing sector accounts for double the GDP that the UK sector provides, so there’s obvious room for improvement here)

Anyway, my dislike of Dyson, the man and his products, is not really to do with his Brexit stance at all. I own 2 of his products and use another one a few times every weekday (hand dryer). I know of people who have worked for him. I even looked at working in Malmesbury myself.

Firstly, while his products tend to do something very well, they also have massive flaws. E.g. a short battery life and non interchangeable batteries on the handheld vacuums. The hand dryer that dumps water all over the floor. The uprights with extendable stair cleaning hose which only reaches half way up any stairs. They also have an endless cycle of washing and drying the filters, needed if you want it to keep sucking. Also what about his failed washing/clothes ripping machine?
I was a Dyson fan you see, hence owning the vacuums. But after using the products long term I wouldn’t buy again.

As for the man, those I’ve heard from who worked for him weren’t exactly complementary. Also I found the engineering job I looked at had a high turnover, hardly a ringing endorsement of the workplace culture. Google showed the job had been readvertised every 6 months or so.

😕

On the upside, i’ve ordered a vacuum!

We are very impressed by the Shark we got a few months ago.

We were so impressed by the old chap’s that we bought one too. It’s very good and the two batteries mean you get a genuinely reasonable run time.
https://sharkclean.eu/uk/product/shark-cordless-vacuum-cleaner-duoclean-flexology-if250uk/

On the upside, i’ve ordered a vacuum!

Please tell us it wasn’t from a bigoted brexiter