Grinding up a muddy hill today thinking I need a new chain was wondering about a belt drive on a mtb set up as a Single speed.

Is this a bad idea in muddy conditions? Or just a bad idea generally. Not looked into cost aspect yet so that might make it a bad idea too.

I can’t really add much in terms of off road, but I’ve recently brought a Cube Editor (Alfine 11) for commuting along filthy tow path & cycle track. So far (about 400 miles) I love it, quiet, minimal maintenance (a brush every so often) & clean.

There is only one belt system. Gates Carbon Drive. The CDN range won’t cut it off road, the rear sprocket is plastic and will wear quickly, it’s a casual rider range of kit. The CDX is aimed at off road and serious (expedition) cycling, it’s has a stainless rear sprocket.

Gates needs a stiff splittable frame to keep the belt running true, it won’t be happy with a springy Flexi rear end. Apparently. Not sure where that leaves Ti frames.

I found this helpful:
https://willem.com/blog/2019-02-27_one-year-on-the-ultimate-commuter-bike/#continue

Grinding up a muddy hill today thinking I need a new chain was wondering about a belt drive on a mtb set up as a Single speed.

Use it all the time in muddy conditions on a SS and love it.  Get home, hose it down, sling it in the garage until the next time.  It’s a complete winner

*middle age retro hifi disappoint*

Yep. Love mine as a winter commute gravel beast. Just hose it down. Midlands Trailquest Graham had issues as I recall with high wear but mine has done 6 years in the same belt.

Shand keep building lovely looking Gates drive bikes and sticking them on their FB page.

I was thinking how do you get the belt to slip through if your not using a hacksaw or have the David Blaine touch but see there is a belt that can separate and rejoin again now

I have belt drive/Alfine 8 on my work bike, and for comparison a chain/Alfine 8 on my gravel bike. I find the belt much more draggy than the chain. Safe to say I’m not a convert, I’d go chain every time.

I was thinking how do you get the belt to slip through if your not using a hacksaw or have the David Blaine touch but see there is a belt that can separate and rejoin again now

Now that’s interesting, if it works, that would make life so much simpler. Originally, the frame had to be either custom built, or carefully modified with a small section in the seatstay that can be unbolted to leave a small gap to get the belt through.
I keep meaning to get at last one of my bikes back into use, if I can find some soft knee armour, like d3o, that will give me the confidence to ride again without causing any significant pressure on my knee, and being able to run a belt-drive on my Inbred 853 SS would be brilliant, quiet, even less maintenance, and a bit lighter than running a chain.
It might let me try riding on a Sandy beach again – last time I rode on the beach at Burnham-on-Sea I got as far as the old lighthouse and the drivetrain was completely trashed.
Hmmmm, not cheap, $350. Cheaper than modding a frame or getting a custom one, though.
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/add-a-belt-drive-to-any-bike-with-veers-belt-drive/?image=3&type=gallery&gallery=1

Wow not seen/heard mention of mtqgraham for a while, I used to see him at the odd race/event.

I am very lucky to have one of the beautiful Shand mentioned above!

I don’t find it draggy at all – if anything it feels stiffer and more direct than my chained bikes, and only sounds “draggy in a couple of gears in the middle of the range – even there it’s not bad – it’s new and I know from past (chained) Rohloff experience that will go away – on a singlespeed it would be brilliant, but I think really only on a custom frame built for belt drive – I believe they are not good on anything that’s not “purpose built” (i.e. stiff enough)

@velocipede

How do you find maintaining the belt tension and maintenance of the PF30 EBB?

I just replaced my SS drivetrain and went for chain again as I think it’s upwards of £250 to convert to belt. However going by the wear so far I wore it out in just 12 months so might be making this decision again next year!

Also what EBB have Shand fitted, apparently they are using Rideworks now (which is a new brand to me)

…

@spooky_b329

I’ve not had it long – it was a present to myself as I recovered from breaking my back (in 4 places) last March. It arrived not log before Christmas and the weather has stopped me getting out on it in the past couple of weeks – I reckon I’ve only done 200 miles on it tops

So far, obviously I haven’t had any need to adjust the belt but as they don’t stretch, I’m not sure I will…. but we’ll see! There is an app from Gates to help with that – you twang the belt alongside your phone and it advises more or less tension – not used it yet.

In terms of maintenance, you can imagine with the way the weather has been that the 200 miles so far has been pretty muddy – as some comments above, all it takes is a hose down and job done – keeping it clean is a pleasure rather than a ball ache!!

Thanks, I’m riding mine in the mud and grime, the BB I’m using at the moment has been through 3 sets of bearings…although one of the sets had less effective low friction seals, so I’m hoping it will be better now. I just cracked the shell and had to replace it with another the same but if it carries on being crap I’ll consider changing to Rideworks!

Had belt drive on my Pinion gearbox hardtail. Snapped 2 belts, couldn’t work out why, tension and alignment were both fine. Gave it up as a bad job and running chain now without issue. On the belt, when I was putting a big effort in on a steep climb you could hear the fibres snapping inside it. Shame as I love the concept of it but not the 5 mile walk home.

you could hear the fibres snapping inside it

Yikes. My worst nightmare. I tend to destroy stuff just subjecting it to normal use. I try not to stand up out of the saddle on my Alfine 8 as it is not recommended, let alone a belt that sounds like a Forth Road Bridge main cable…

So far, obviously I haven’t had any need to adjust the belt but as they don’t stretch, I’m not sure I will…. but we’ll see! There is an app from Gates to help with that – you twang the belt alongside your phone and it advises more or less tension – not used it yet

I adjusted mine in the weeks after I got my bike as it would slip going up very steep stuff (stuff that I wasn’t really strong enough to get up anyway really).  I just tightened it slightly using the app and that was it done.  Haven’t touched it since and that was 2 years ago.  Bike gets used 2 times a week roughly  when averaged over a year.  I love it

….a big effort in on a steep climb you could hear the fibres snapping inside it.

I might be thinking out of my arse, but if the belt is between the gearing and the wheel (Pinion), rather than between cranks and gearing (Alfine), will there be more force applied to it, as the gearing is stepping up your effort before transmitting it through the belt?

Like I said, quite possibly testiculating.

Also what EBB have Shand fitted, apparently they are using Rideworks now

I think so.  This thread has got me curious so I went down into the garage to strip the EBB and take a look (well, the beer also happens to be down there as well).  It’s a Rideworks and hasn’t been touched for 2 years.  Was stiff but could still be turned with a tool once the locking bolts were released.   Took the whole thing out to clean up and the drive side bearing was a bit gritty but not too bad.  Just flushed it out with alcohol and regreased and it’s good for a bit longer now.  The other side bearing was just fine, like new but I regreased it anyway while I was there.  There are also a pair of seals that fit on top of the bearings that were still in great shape.

Then I just cleaned up the inside of the frame with the rough side of a washing sponge to smooth things out a bit (that’s the surface the EBB turns on), greased it all up, refitted the EBB and it’s as smooth as again.  Turns nicely in the frame until you tighten it up.  Way better that the one that is fitted to my Cannondale tandem

A friend of mine has a bike shop and does a fair trade replacing gates belt drives with chains as the parts for belt drives are horrifically expensive.

I’m surprised Gates belts fail as they make and sell lots of drive belts for Transits, Discovery etc getting thrashed at 70mph and replacement belts not really expensive for a transit driving lots of pulleys and much more rubber as longer belt

I try not to stand up out of the saddle on my Alfine 8 as it is not recommended

Never heard this, is that actually from the manufacturer? As a singlespeeder I will often pedal out of the saddle on my geared bikes!

It’s a Rideworks and hasn’t been touched for 2 years.

That’s really encouraging, I’m having to mess with my Problem Solvers one every few weeks, just a couple of big muddy rides and a hose down afterwards can be enough to start seizing up the bearings. Hopefully this is in part due to buying replacement LLB bearings with light contact seals instead of the LLU firm contact ones by mistake. The only downside is I think my PF30 shell will need reaming out slightly from as I tried a WheelsMFG one and it was too tight, my shell seems to be at least 0.2mm too small.

Depends on your mud I’d say. I was put off them for Mtb after spending some 15-20 minutes helping someone to clear a load of the north downs claggiest out of the front end of a belt drive set up. It had built up in the belt and in the holes in the drive ring that were supposed to let it clear and then nicely packed in to make it hard to get out.

That was quite an extreme case though. I’d still love one on a commuter.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/belt-drive-i-t-may-be-time-to-admit-defeat/

if the belt is between the gearing and the wheel (Pinion), rather than between cranks and gearing (Alfine), will there be more force applied to it, as the gearing is stepping up your effort before transmitting it through the belt?

Yes, if you’re in a gear with a ratio less than 1:1 which you probably are on a steep off road hill.

The OP did mention SS though.