About 10 months ago we had a kitchen made from a local company. On the whole there were a few issues with it – nothing major but all the same we weren’t happy.

We tried to resolve it, their MD came round and came out with some crap that it was our fitter – but I’ve proven that it was the manufacture of the cabinets which is at fault and not our fitter.

We’ve tried to work with them but they went dark on us after numerous attempts on our part to arrange meetings to agree options or just to discuss how to resolve this. There is an outstanding amount to pay but we’ve not been chased for it and to be honest I don’t feel that we should pay until they fix the issues.

Yesterday I get a letter 5 months after I last tried contacting them (and being assured the MD would call me) advising I have 5 working days to pay the outstanding amount or they are going to take legal action.

I’m in the process of writing a letter back to them as I’m really pleased they’ve finally contacted us so we can get this resolve but a little shocked that out of the blue they have threatened legal action – a simple call to discuss would have got the ball rolling.

So, what’s the score with being taken legal in this situation? I’m tempted to defend it as they’ve not delivered what was designed and they committed to deliver – additionally they’ve not engaged at all in resolving the matter.

How nasty could this get?

I do hope you have records of all your previous contact with them where you were trying to get the matter resolved?

check house insurance for legal cover, too.

1) Don’t panic
2) There’s a good chance it’s bluster
3) Get your paperwork/records in order

good call on the house insurance.

I feel it’s bluster, apparently the owner of the firm is chasing but he sold the company recently so imagine he is chasing as the sale was for a certain amount minus the bad debt – anything he collects lines his pocket.

Def get legal advice. IANAL but do you have anything in writing telling them you weren’t paying the o/s amount until they responded to your concerns?

Worth a Google of the company name to see if they have form? Might help your lawyers if they have a habit of it?

I have an email detailing our issues and that we have not paid as they have not been resolved.

Write same contents of email, take a copy, send one in the registered / signed for post

If its small clims court, have you the letters showing willingness to talk to find a resolution? I think that this will put you in a better position as opposed to blanking them or not responding… I.e, you gave every opportunity to reconcile by discussion.

May also be worth getting a couple of quotes for the cost of rectification/remedial works for set-off/counterclaim.

What sort of sum are we talking about? less than £1k? More than £5k?
If you have proof you sought a resolution and they ignored you, then the odds are in your favour.
Are they threatening a specific legal action?

I wouldn’t overly worry about it. It’s just the new management trying to get their books in order.

A letter before action (which this seems to be) have to meet certain criteria
Have a Google and see if it’s compliant. It could just be bluster!

Keep everything. If it comes to it you have to show you were being reasonable and don’t panic.
The only thing to watch for is a real set of court papers.

Or just own them with a set of bombers….

As above – what sort of sum is outstanding. Less than 10k then a small claim and you are less at risk on costs if you should seek to defend it and fail – intended to be a lawyer free process.

Bombers might be easier and far more satisfying.

Just checked the internet and the guy involved was given a fine and a criminal record due to some council related dispute a few years back – apparently they couldn’t resolve it through discussion – does that count as form?

It’s just under £10k.

Gonna send the letter to them tomorrow recorded delivery and call them also. It’s a fairly civil letter stating I am keen to resolve and will be providing 4 options:

1. Go to court over this under the grounds that they have not delivered what was agreed and have not made any satisfactory efforts to resolve the outstanding issues.
2. They fix the issues and we agree an amount that I will pay.
3. I get a quote for the work, have this completed and take this sum plus costs off the outstanding amount.
4. We agree an amount in full and final settlement and we walk away from the matter.

So you ordered a kitchen a set of cabinets with doors, and someone else fitted them,and some how you decided the supplier was at fault,not the fitter, and because you were not happy, didnt pay, now a new company has taken over and is chasing the debt from the previous owner and sent out a legal type letter to perhaps get the kettle on the boil.

Either way youve got 10,000 quids in the bank and the company havent for work done, as above get a few estimates for remediation work and send them to the manufacturer.

The issue is the company didn’t take the right measurements of the extractor and made the cabinets too tall so everything is out (doors and end panels). On putting it all together the fitter found it didn’t come together right. He couldn’t have made it good or have caused it as I can show the problem with a tape measure. The fitter was one of the best I’ve used – real attention to detail and an excellent carpenter too. Some of the bespoke kitchens he’s made in the past are amazing.

If they haven’t fixed the issues in 6 months with £10k hanging over them why would they if I paid them.

I’ve been told its the previous owner who is chasing this debt as it relates to pre-sale debt.

This thread?

Gonna send the letter to them tomorrow recorded delivery and call them also.

Don’t call them. If it ain’t in print it’s wasted breath.

Shouldn’t you send it Special Delivery – Signed For? That way you have a record not just that a delivery was made, but who to.

You don’t need to do recorded delivery, just get (free) proof of postage.
Don’t phone. Everything needs to be a letter. A court would want a paper trail to see if you were being reasonable

I’d definitely front the cash for a special delivery… Proof of postage and recorded won’t be traceable. A special is scanned at every point on its journey and can’t (ok…shouldn’t) be “lost in the post”….

I would have thought “presumption of service” applied here. Assuming you can show it was posted the recipient has to prove it didn’t arrive. Free proof of postage is enough to satisfy the presumption.

so you received the goods quite happily, then decided to bicker about the finish and ultimately withold payment

you didnt return the ‘faulty’ goods?

also seems you were very happy with the slightly below par finish, for ten months in exchange for an easy/quiet life and you keeping the money, cant imagine how the first company found themselves going bust.

It’s a fairly civil letter stating I am keen to resolve

It’s a fairly civil letter stating I REMAIN keen to resolve – I’d suggest

Kitchens and Bathrooms cause so much greif for suppliers and some fitters, so many things to no be as what the customer wanted, then a large bill once installed for basicly a lot of chipboard boxes and some white goods in a kitchen. Then for a bathroom the tiles could be slightly different or not quite level or flat to wall.

Kitchens and Bathrooms cause so much greif for suppliers and some fitters, so many things to no be as what the customer wanted, then a large bill once installed for basicly a lot of chipboard boxes and some white goods in a kitchen. Then for a bathroom the tiles could be slightly different or not quite level or flat to wall.

Not the OP’s stated situation.

so you received the goods quite happily, then decided to bicker about the finish and ultimately withold payment
you didnt return the ‘faulty’ goods?
also seems you were very happy with the slightly below par finish, for ten months in exchange for an easy/quiet life and you keeping the money, cant imagine how the first company found themselves going bust.

Not what the OP said at all but don’t let that get in the way…

Two things.

1) Do not discuss things over the phone, ever. Written only.

2) No reasonable request for money asks for ten grand in five days “or else,” that’s patently ridiculous. I’d expect therefore that sum of legal advice they’ve taken is “none whatsoever” and it’s simply intended to scare you into paying.

Do just watch your post. With that sort of sum owing, they might well slip in a petition to have you declared bankrupt as well, just to wrong-foot you.

They shouldn’t get it, as you can’t be declared bankrupt in respect of a debt that is genuinely disputed. However, if you don’t show up for the bankuptcy hearing there is some risk they’ll manage.

They won’t declare you bankrupt OP. To do that they woukd have to pay the court costs – circa 1k. On top of that they will lose the moneys owed.
Get an independent report carried out on the kitchen detailing why it’s the actual kitchen and not the installation that’s at fault. Without that they are well within their right to chase the debt as you entered into a contract with them to supply which you are now in breach of. Yes, you’re disputing some things but without a report from an expert ultimately you’ll end up paying, plus interest plus whatever other cost they have incurred.
The “I don’t think it’s good enough” doesn’t stand up well in court without some kind of official examination.

It’s bluff. They will want to avoid a court case as much as you do. Most civil cases are settled out of court.

They won’t declare you bankrupt OP.

I cannot recall whether iolo is a lawyer. I am, and have seen this tactic run quite a lot. That doesn’t of course mean that they will do it, or that they will think it will work. It works pretty well as a way of getting a lay defendant running in circles.

🙂

I am not a lawyer and have no idea what I’m talking about.
I have however experienced chasing moneis owed from customers claiming what was supplied was not to spec.
I didn’t force bankruptcy. Eventually I got my money.

A number of ways to skin a cat. 🙂

My favourite bit of debt collection work was always getting a pissy letter from the debtor in response to our menaces saying “your instructions are out of date, we have paid this bill”, and then checking in with our client to find that, yes, they had indeed received a post-dated cheque that morning.

🙂

think if do end up in court or in mediation you will need to show that you have acted reasonably, some questions you need to be prepared on based on what i think understand from above

when did you notify the supplier the units were incorrect size?
did you allow them the opportunity to rectify their error?
did you formally reject and ask them to take away if they refused to rectify?
if your fitter didn’t spot the error before getting on with the job was he/she truly competent?
have you obtained any quotations for rectification?
are you withholding a reasonable amount to cover expected cost of rectification or full amount?

not trying to be awkward – as others said above make sure have a paper trail and are prepared to look like you tried to help the process along

One more question OP.
Who measured up the new kitchen to produce working drawings for manufacture?
Did you get fully dimensioned plans before instucting them to carry out the works?
If yes, did you approve them?
Does whatever’s been supplied correspond to the approved plans?
If the answer is yes then you will have to pay.
If not it’s their problem and need to ensure they provide what was asked for before getting paid.

From the outset, did you agree to buy the units / kitchen from them, against a dimensioned drawing or spec ?
If something hasn’t been made to the spec or drawing , then it should be an obvious cause for complaint, or withholding payment ?

EDIT…was typing as Iolo was, I guess !

BigDummy – Member
A number of ways to skin a cat.

My favourite bit of debt collection work was always getting a pissy letter from the debtor in response to our menaces saying “your instructions are out of date, we have paid this bill”, and then checking in with our client to find that, yes, they had indeed received a post-dated cheque that morning.

i recall that at one co’ i worked at we’d then use that as evidence that a company was insolvent and start winding up proceedings – not surprisingly the owners would then find immediate funds

that was in the 80’s and was mostly small traders some of whom frankly took the proverbial, rotating between dumber than dumb suppliers and funding their lifestyles at the expense of our employees bonuses

2) No reasonable request for money asks for ten grand in five days “or else,” that’s patently ridiculous. I’d expect therefore that sum of legal advice they’ve taken is “none whatsoever” and it’s simply intended to scare you into payi

Most overdafts or bank loans have that clause in , had the letter of the bank a few years ago as did a mate whos house got repoed, he got a letter demanding a huge sum made up of what he should/would have paid over tyhe time of his mortgage, fees and the loss on the sale of the house, they have up to 6 years to chase the debt and they do.

Did you get fully dimensioned plans before instucting them to carry out the works?
If yes, did you approve them?

That. I had a staircase made that ended up being the wrong size even though we had given the manufacturer the right dimensions. They had written it down wrongly but we got stuffed because we had signed the plans they had made. Fortunately the builder that made the order for us took that hit.

Just one thought – if the director sold the company, ask for confirmation that he retained the right to pursue any outstanding liabilities.

Often company sales include the assets and liabilities of the company which can include unpaid debts. If they’ve been sold he would not have any right to chase the debt.

Re: bankruptcy – in order to make you bankrupt there would need to be an undisputed debt, such as a judgment in his favour ordering you to pay the money. As you dispute that the amount is owing, the courts won’t make the order.