Viewing 39 posts - 161 through 199 (of 199 total)
  • BBC: Cyclist calls out driver for sexual harassment
  • RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Personal opinion:

    I make no secret of the fact that I hate tories.

    But I’m happy to discuss anything with anyone, provided it’s actually a discussion and points raised are accepted and addressed on both sides.

    I remember the ‘old days’ on here when an opposing opinion would lead to intimations of violence.
    In fact, I think my second or third ever post made Ernie react in that manner. 🙂

    I’ve never been banned, or threatened with a ban, although I have had posts removed (And rightly so. I suggested the world would be a better place if all tories were hanged from lamp posts. Sorry about that).

    We’ve all moved on, for the better I hope.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    I kinda think that about ‘people’ sometimes. Too much time and not enough ****ing lamp-posts.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    The older I get, the less tolerant of bullshit I get.

    But I’m also less likely to argue about it on here.

    And, despite everything, I do miss some of the more robust characters we used to have – I know there are lots of very legitimate reasons why he was banned, but Fred was always fun to discuss things with. He responded to points raised and engaged well, even on the most contentious of subjects.

    On the other hand, the last lot of right wing frothers (the one named after his yacht and his little friend) just shat in the pool and retreated to a safe distance.
    No fun at all.

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...
    Latest Singletrack Videos
    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Have no idea why you are misrepresenting what I have said Cougar, perhaps it’s because you haven’t read my post properly.

    Firstly I have made it clear that my remarks are an observation, I am not complaining. I couldn’t give a monkeys if stw is an echo-chamber of like-minded opinions or not. I don’t know why you think making an observation must mean complaining, especially when I’ve made it clear, more than once, that it’s not a problem for me. Why would it be?

    Secondly I have said that I don’t think the reason for the echo-chamber effect is censorship. I talked instead about a hostile and intolerant attitude, theotherjonv got that why didn’t you?

    Finally I am not “complaining” that I wasn’t challenged concerning my Thatcher remarks, seriously did you think I was? I was observing that I hadn’t been challenged over my criticism of her.

    For me it’s a clear fact that the political makeup of the forum has changed, even if you want to dismiss it as merely my opinion.

    For me as someone who had a fairly long absence the difference is stark, you don’t appear to have even noticed.

    And for my last ‘finally’, I don’t wish to dissect your comments but this one:

    The general complaint here as far as I can see is “there isn’t enough unpleasant people on this forum any more.”

    Is that really how you see it? Anyone who has a significantly different opinion to yours must by definition be an unpleasant person? Anyone who supports brexit, or Boris Johnson, or the Tory Party, must by definition be an unpleasant person? That is really sad, especially as they make up a significant proportion of the population – although obviously not on stw.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    For me it’s a clear fact that the political makeup of the forum has changed, even if you want to dismiss it as merely my opinion.

    How do you think it has it changed?

    Anyone who supports brexit, or Boris Johnson, or the Tory Party, must by definition be an unpleasant person? 

    Personally, I think anyone who votes or supports Boris Johnson or the tories is an unpleasant person, yes.
    Brexit? Not so much.

    10
    Full Member

    A long, long time ago..

    DezB said
    The only good thing about this is that the “me too” generation, for want of a better description now have to confidence to confront the sexist morons AND report it. That has to be a change for the good I reckon.

    I agree with this.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    I remember the ‘old days’ on here when an opposing opinion would lead to intimations of violence.
    In fact, I think my second or third ever post made Ernie react in that manner

    Sorry Rusty I have read that several times and can’t make any sense of it at all, I have even looked up “intimations” in case I was confused about its meaning.

    I have no idea what you are talking about. You appear to be suggesting that I threatened violence (apologies if I misunderstood)

    There is zero possiblity of that. Apart from the fact that it’s not my style I simply can’t get worked up by the opinions of a random stranger that I have never met. I know some people are offended by other people’s opinions, I tend not to be. Tbh I tend not to be offended full stop.

    Edit : I almost felt offended a couple of weeks ago when I thought I hadn’t been invited on a bike ride (it turned out that I had) I didn’t feel the need to fight anyone though.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    It was about hunting Ernie.
    You threatened to treat anyone who disagreed with you in the same manner that hunters treat their prey. With violence.

    There is zero possiblity of that. Apart from the fact that it’s not my style I simply can’t get worked up by the opinions of a random stranger that I have never met. I know some people are offended by other people’s opinions, I tend not to be. Tbh I tend not to be offended full stop.

    Your memory is wrong.

    Care to answer the question?
    How has the political makeup of the forum changed?

    Cougar
    Full Member

    Have no idea why you are misrepresenting what I have said Cougar, perhaps it’s because you haven’t read my post properly.

    Entirely possible, it’s not intentional if I have.

    I am not complaining

    OK, that’s fair. You appear to me to be presenting two self-contradictory views. Is that a more accurate summation?

    it’s a clear fact that the political makeup of the forum has changed, even if you want to dismiss it as merely my opinion.

    Prove it. It’s not a clear fact, it’s your opinion.

    Regardless, fact or opinion, my inference from your posts was that you were saying that the shift you allege is by design. It that wasn’t what you were suggesting then I apologise. If it is then you’re wrong.

    Anyone who supports brexit, or Boris Johnson, or the Tory Party, must by definition be an unpleasant person?

    Well.

    You’ve dragged in non sequitur arguments from other threads in order to point score and potentially derail the discussion so well done there but, is that statement wrong?

    Ruling out “ignorance” as a motivation, can you show me a pleasant brexiter? A pleasant Boris supporter? A pleasant tory? I’ve spoken with a lot of them over the last five years and, generously, pleasant ones are thin on the ground.

    “By definition” of course not, that would be a ludicrous rash generalisation and I’m not going to fall into such a lazy trap, but the odds are indubitably in my favour.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    I know there are lots of very legitimate reasons why he was banned, but Fred was always fun to discuss things with

    In public perhaps.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    It was about hunting Ernie.
    You threatened to treat anyone who disagreed with you in the same manner that hunters treat their prey. With violence.

    No I didn’t because there is no possibility that I would ever threaten violence to some stranger on the internet who’s opinions I didn’t agree with.

    You mentioning hunting has got me wondering what I might have said though. It’s definitely a topic which I would feel strongly about, so you might be onto something.

    Maybe I made a comment along the lines of how would you like to be hunted down? Although that in itself doesn’t sound like the sort of comment I would make. It’s difficult to know the context without seeing the post.

    Do you hunt then Rusty? Did you report my post? The threat of violence would have definitely got me a ban. I can safely say that none of the bans which I received over the years have been for threatening violence.

    Edit : I think all my bans have been for being sweary. Which was fair, often forgot where I was

    Cougar
    Full Member

    (For the record:

    For all that I may sometimes have an assertive debating style, I do not ever intentionally misrepresent people or their posts.

    I am however fallible and I promise that I will endeavour to hold my hand up if I’ve screwed up, and I welcome people’s steers here. I want to be better.)

    Cougar
    Full Member

    The threat of violence would have definitely got me a ban. I can safely say that none of the bans which I received over the years have been for threatening violence.

    An _actual_ threat of violence would’ve certainly got you a ban. Potentially a life ban depending on context. A throwaway comment that could be interpreted that way if you tried hard enough would not. The mods are real people, not a Gatso camera. They aren’t silly.

    Hand on heart I can say that during my tenure we made mistakes but the vast, vast majority of warnings and bans were fair and justified because we peer-reviewed each other and overturned any questionable calls. As recently as today I read “I was banned for a month because of some minor infraction…” no, no you weren’t. That just wouldn’t happen because if it did the rest of the mod team would kick it to the kerb. Banning people only happens either as a result of a major problems we can’t ignore like racism, or persistent cockery after ignoring repeated warnings to desist. It’s a last resort option. No-one ever got “banned for a month just because of…” anything ever, it’s a distortion of the truth, unless you’re talking about pre-hack days in which case a) it’s before my time and b) that’s well over a decade ago so get over it. Tuition fees, Iraq war.

    Anyway. What specific interaction either of you two are referring to, I have no idea.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    can you show me a pleasant brexiter? A pleasant Boris supporter? A pleasant tory?

    Yeah I’ve met many pleasant people with political views which are very different to mine. Including, you will be shocked to hear, Daily Mail readers.

    It’s a funny ol’world, innit?

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    I know nothing of what went on behind the scenes and thus have no opinion on the matter.
    My comment was not in any way judgemental.

    No I didn’t because there is no possibility that I would ever threaten violence to some stranger on the internet who’s opinions I didn’t agree with.

    You mentioning hunting has got me wondering what I might have said though. It’s definitely a topic which I would feel strongly about, so you might be onto something.

    Maybe I made a comment along the lines of how would you like to be hunted down? Although that in itself doesn’t sound like the sort of comment I would make. It’s difficult to know the context without seeing the post.

    Do you hunt then Rusty? Did you report my post? The threat of violence would have definitely got me a ban. I can safely say that none of the bans which I received over the years have been for threatening violence.

    Do I hunt? No. But I fish and used to shoot.
    No, I didn’t report your post. With hindsight, I should have.

    You threatened me with violence.
    Some stranger from the internet who’s opinions you didn’t agree with.

    I remember it very well as it was one of my first posts on the first internet forum I joined.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    can you show me a pleasant brexiter?

    Yeah I’ve met many

    *looks around*

    So “no,” then?

    I’ve met many unicorns.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Ernie, I’m happy to accept your explanation.
    Perceptions differ over time.

    Now, are you going to answer the question or not?

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    As recently as today I read “I was banned for a month because of some minor infraction…” no, no you weren’t. That just wouldn’t happen because if it did the rest of the mod team would kick it to the kerb.

    As I’ve said before, I was banned in the time it took to post a comment, re-read it, realise a big swear had been missed by the filter then hit the edit button. I appealed by email, apologising profusely for my error and got nothing in reply.

    Then the next time I got another long ban for challenging Mark over the sales board. Perhaps wasn’t the best challenge but definitely not worthy of a blanket ban for everyone else that got caught in that mess.

    Maybe that’s how you saw and did things but clearly not all the mods did or do.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Anyway, this is even further off topic than the other thread that got closed without reason or warning, partly to blame so sorry.

    DezB
    Free Member

    10

    A long, long time ago..

    Leave me the **** out of this circle-jerk bullshit, ta very much!

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    Interesting how a thread that started because someone commented on someone’s arse is now entirely composed of some people commenting that some other people are arses.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    can you show me a pleasant brexiter? A pleasant Boris supporter? A pleasant tory?

    I know a couple of people who voted for Brexit based on the £350m for the NHS “promise”. They’re not inherently racist, they’re generally pleasant and polite people – you could maybe accuse them of being a bit thick or not doing due diligence or not thinking things through properly but they’re not frothing gammons waving union jacks and banging on about immigration.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Ernie, I’m happy to accept your explanation.

    No you’re not, you are repeating the claim that I threatened you with violence, which I can say with 100% certainty I never did.

    And I am not really offering an “explanation” am I? Since I know nothing about the incidence, apart from what you claim, ie it had something to do with hunting.

    Why didn’t a mod pick it up? Why didn’t anyone else report it? As Cougar has confirmed it would definitely have resulted in me getting a ban, quite possibly a life ban.

    If it was only about the second post you posted doesn’t make it easier to find it?

    To be honest I am surprised that you claim to have joined stw after me. And reason for that is that when I first joined stw I had been a member of MTB Britain forum, which was a tiny forum in comparison. There was a prolific user there who went by the username Rusty so I particularly noticed your username and initially wondered if there was a connection.

    Perhaps your memory is hazy and you have confused me with someone else. Although a thread about hunting is definitely one which I am likely to have commented on, which maybe adds to the confusion.

    What I do know is that claiming that I threatened violence is a very serious allegation, if you can’t back it up with hard evidence it shouldn’t be made. Otherwise we can all play that game and I could make a completely unsubstantiated allegation that you once made an offensive racist comment. I wouldn’t have to back it up, just claim that it was many years ago, that I definitely remember it, and it was on a thread about asylum seekers.

    nbt
    Full Member

    My Dad’s a tory and he’s generally very pleasant. He definitely doesn’t support Boris or Brexit though

    chakaping
    Free Member

    I know a couple of people who voted for Brexit based on the £350m for the NHS “promise”. They’re not inherently racist, they’re generally pleasant and polite people – you could maybe accuse them of being a bit thick or not doing due diligence or not thinking things through properly but they’re not frothing gammons waving union jacks and banging on about immigration.

    +1

    Do you possibly spend too much time online being all righteously angry Cougar? (and whoever else expressed that view)

    On a side note, should we have another thread for this debate to continue, maybe call it “STW eats itself”?

    I was quite interested in the GB News thread before it got horribly derailed into a gammon vs SJW tirade.

    ransos
    Free Member

    As recently as today I read “I was banned for a month because of some minor infraction…” no, no you weren’t

    In my case, I believe I was. I asked for some evidence of the reason for banning, and none was supplied.

    god1406
    Free Member

    “can you show me a pleasant brexiter? A pleasant Boris supporter? A pleasant tory?”

    I think that it’s important to treat/judge people on the basis of their individual flaws or merits.

    kerley
    Free Member

    Indeed. My dad was very pleasant, went out of his way to help people, always good humoured, could talk to anybody about anything. Way more pleasant than I will ever be.
    For a reason I could never understand, even after discussion, he voted Tory and no doubt he would have voted Brexit if he were alive to do so.

    nealglover
    Free Member

    Indeed. My dad was very pleasant, went out of his way to help people, always good humoured, could talk to anybody about anything. Way more pleasant than I will ever be.
    For a reason I could never understand, even after discussion, he voted Tory and no doubt he would have voted Brexit if he were alive to do so.

    I was just about to post almost exactly the same thing about my Dad, I think asking the question

    ….“can you show me a pleasant brexiter? A pleasant Boris supporter? A pleasant tory?”.

    ….is spectacularly narrow minded to be honest .

    PJM1974
    Free Member

    We all seem to have completely missed Bunnyhop’s comment on the last page:

    At least we are in agreement that woman on bicycles should not have to have their bottoms pinched (even by well known soap actors – which is what happened to me), should not have male taxi drivers getting out of their cars and shouting sexist abuse (ending in the word LOVE), with male passengers all laughing, after he’d cut me up (I’d screamed), should not have to have drivers picking on the lone woman at the back of a long line of male mtbikers slightly holding up their car, because the driver was too scared to pick on any of the burly riders ahead. The list goes on.

    This sort of shit is horrible to contemplate and is hardly an incentive for women to ride bikes in public spaces. Instead of turning this thread into a Brexit/Tory/etc critique (of which I’m also quite guilty of), shall we try and steer back on topic?

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    They’re not inherently racist, they’re generally pleasant and polite people – you could maybe accuse them of being a bit thick or not doing due diligence or not thinking things through properly but they’re not frothing gammons waving union jacks and banging on about immigration.

    A lot of people were suckered on Brexit, fed false hope, were desperate for change, didn’t check facts and sources.

    That doesn’t make them racists or gammon. It makes them vulnerable, and victims.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    I’d happily meet Dominique Greive. Pleasant whenever I’ve seen him on French or UK media.

    Vaguely on topic I’ve had stuff thrown at me from cars: various liquids, cigarettes (with enough left to know it wasn’t an accident), rubbish, and some homophobic nonsense shouted too. Haven’t had my bum pinched or slapped on the bike though.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Vaguely on topic I’ve had stuff thrown at me from cars: various liquids, cigarettes (with enough left to know it wasn’t an accident), rubbish, and some homophobic nonsense shouted too. Haven’t had my bum pinched or slapped on the bike though.

    There was an analogy I saw about how cycling is the closest that men will ever experience about how it feels to be a woman.

    The constant worrying about whether the next car/man coming around the corner is going to “harass” you (close pass, hooting vs leering, inappropriate comment). The constant feel of being vulnerable, of being largely powerless to do anything about it (other than riding/running away).

    The difference is that I can park my bike at home, go out into the street in normal clothes and I’m just “a man”. And then I get treated normally again. It was a powerfully written analogy, much better and more detailed than I’ve managed to recall up there.

    richmtb
    Full Member

    The constant worrying about whether the next car/man coming around the corner is going to “harass” you (close pass, hooting vs leering, inappropriate comment). The constant feel of being vulnerable, of being largely powerless to do anything about it (other than riding/running away).

    The difference is that I can park my bike at home, go out into the street in normal clothes and I’m just “a man”. And then I get treated normally again. It was a powerfully written analogy, much better and more detailed than I’ve managed to recall up there.

    On a date, men worry about being laughed at, women worry about being killed.
    On the road, drivers worry about being inconvenienced, cyclists worry about being killed

    kerley
    Free Member

    There was an analogy I saw about how cycling is the closest that men will ever experience about how it feels to be a woman.

    The constant worrying about whether the next car/man coming around the corner is going to “harass” you (close pass, hooting vs leering, inappropriate comment). The constant feel of being vulnerable, of being largely powerless to do anything about it (other than riding/running away).

    Good point and although I don’t really worry about it feeling vulnerable is never great.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Perhaps your memory is hazy and you have confused me with someone else. Although a thread about hunting is definitely one which I am likely to have commented on, which maybe adds to the confusion.

    What I do know is that claiming that I threatened violence is a very serious allegation, if you can’t back it up with hard evidence it shouldn’t be made. Otherwise we can all play that game and I could make a completely unsubstantiated allegation that you once made an offensive racist comment. I wouldn’t have to back it up, just claim that it was many years ago, that I definitely remember it, and it was on a thread about asylum seekers.

    Of course, you’re right.

    As I can’t find the post all I can do is offer my unreserved apology and withdraw the allegation.

    It was an idiotic thing to do, and I’m sure it’s my memory at fault.
    As I said, this was the first forum I joined as was inclined to take things a little to heart back then.

    Once again, I apologise.
    Sorry.
    And apologies to everyone else for derailing an interesting thread.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    I was banned in the time it took to post a comment, re-read it, realise a big swear had been missed by the filter then hit the edit button.

    In my case, I believe I was.

    There is no way anyone would get banned, in isolation, for a failing of the swear filter. Unless it was over a decade ago in which case things might’ve been different back then, I don’t know, I rather suspect you’re misrepresenting the situation.

    If this genuinely happened as you’re both presenting and there wasn’t some form of prior history such as a dozen previous warnings that you’re omitting to mention then it was a mistake and I can only apologise for that.

    A ban is considered a last resort, the situations you’re describing are scarcely worth a warning. If you receive a ban then either you’ve been asked to desist a form of behaviour and failed to do so leaving the team no choice but to mute you, or if it’s punitive then it’ll be either for a gross indiscretion or cumulative problems. The moderators don’t want to ban people.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    I know a couple of people who voted for Brexit based on the £350m for the NHS “promise”.

    At the risk of paraphrasing Withnail, I wouldn’t really call someone who voted leave by mistake a ‘brextier’.

    ….is spectacularly narrow minded to be honest .

    Honestly, you may be right. I was really talking about the “we won you lost get over it” brigade I suppose.

    … SJW

    Oh yeah, good call. That’s another one for the list.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Erm, no need to go to such lengths to apologise Rusty. Just withdrawing the allegation is more than enough for me thanks.

Viewing 39 posts - 161 through 199 (of 199 total)

The topic ‘BBC: Cyclist calls out driver for sexual harassment’ is closed to new replies.