And were the commenters who expressed themselves in support of Boris Johnson, the Tories, Brexit, or anything else that offends middle-class liberal sensitivities banned, or were their posts removed, or is it that they no longer post here as their views are robustly challenged?

I think he probably just misses arguing with Jamba and that other Tory fantasist who used to endlessly troll here.

I have strong political views myself, but debating them here seems a bit pointless. Not to mention that the main political threads are often dominated by a few tiresome individuals.

Female, 28, and got a body cam to film arseholes abusing me while out running. Local NPT love visiting people at home if I get a number plate. So far I've had 2 charged and 1 guy lost his job and I've no regrets.

— Fesshole (@fesshole) June 14, 2021

Forgive me for turning up to the forum in a short skirt. I must be asking for it.

as a chap who has been know to wear ladies clothes, you do have to be very careful with the length of “short skirt” and how supportive your undergarments are. Get it wrong and you can look like the clapper in a bell!

and back to the original gist of the thread, if you struggle to say things without feeling that you may offend the woke masses maybe think of the old adage, if you cant say something nice, dont say anything at all.

we also seem to have the lost the ability as a society to disagree without being disagreeable.

Interesting that you should make the “chlorine” comment because stw has indeed been politically sterilised in recent years, there is little chance of seeing a comment in support of Boris Johnson, the Tories, Brexit, or anything else that offends middle-class liberal sensitivities.

We do have forum threads about Brexit and Boris Johnson. Those who posted in support of either tended to be the minority of people here who eschew evidence based decision making or who are fans of the tactical non-sequitur when their rationale has painted them into a corner.

We also have threads about Jeremy Corbyn and Keir Starmer, with overtly critical posts. Some of those criticisms I agree with, despite me being a serial Labour voter of late.

Besides, we all agree to abide by certain rules when we sign up for the forum. It’s not a playground and the moderators reserve the right to moderate as they see fit.

Forgive me for turning up to the forum in a short skirt. I must be asking for it.

If that’s an attempt at humour it’s piss-poor. Either that or it’s a textbook example of pushing the boundaries of appropriateness for attention.

and yes, sign me up to the whole “I am proud to be woke” movement. Be Nice, even when the other person isn’t

I have a lot of sympathy for this view.

How anyone could take that line at face value I really do not know

“It was just a joke” – you say you pretended to be unpc (twice?), and don’t understand what people assumed you aren’t pc, and whine about it?

This is my point. You’re all falling over yourselves to be wokest of opinion, yet consider it acceptable to abuse actual people on this site.

Erm, grow some. Two entirely different things.

And…

Forgive me for turning up to the forum in a short skirt. I must be asking for it.

Good lord, weapons grade victimhood and lack of self awareness to boot.

STW isn’t sterilized, it’s robust

It has indeed been politically sterilised. If you feel it hasn’t then I can only assume that you weren’t around when Tory supporters would post their views on here with gay abandon.

I remember once making a critical comment concerning Boris Johnson when he was London Mayor, the reaction from Tory supporters on here was swift, can you imagine a similar situation today on the Boris Johnson thread??

The political cleansing has occurred through a climate of intolerance and hostility. Cougar’s posts, to give one of the more extreme example, positively drip with anger, bitterness, and intolerance (at least binners makes his rants fun)

The few individuals to the right of the Guardian who remain, such as Mefty and big n daft, post very little and tend to make observational remarks rather than strong representations of what they believe. I only know of Mefty’s support for the Tory Party because of what he posted years ago, not what he posts these days.

Obviously many people will be very happy with squeaky clean echo chamber. And why not? Nothing wrong with being in an environment with like-minded people. But I’m not sure what they think they might be getting out of it.

For me personally it provides a wonderful window into the mindset of middle-class liberals, I’m not sure where else I could experience that so vividly. I do indeed feel that I’m on safari 🙂

The brexit thread is a particularly good example. I have absolutely no idea what people who post on it think they are achieving – what is the point of expressing the same view everyday to people who agree with you anyway? Will it ever end? Or will it still be chugging along in 10 or 20 years time? I am strangely drawn to it though.

This is my point. You’re all falling over yourselves to be wokest of opinion, yet consider it acceptable to abuse actual people on this site.

There’s a fair point hidden away there though. Like most, I CBA to engage in the contentious topics but blimey, when posted, are they swarmed over by the usual suspects. Genuinely, a pack animal approach to anyone that doesn’t conform.

Those advocating tolerance can be the most intolerant of all!

This isn’t restricted to here, obvz, but we definitely are on the far scale of the spectrum.

Anyhow, just my view. Carry on 🙂

comment because stw has indeed been politically sterilised in recent years, there is little chance of seeing a comment in support of Boris Johnson, the Tories, Brexit, or anything else that offends middle-class liberal sensitivities.

…And yet here you are, posting happily with no interference, no banning, no restrictions…odd. I can only assume that you align yourself with middle class liberal sensitivities, which I have to admit, comes as a shock.

And yet here you are, posting happily with no interference, no banning, no restrictions…

Well I’ve got you regularly on my case nick, so it’s not all plain sailing.

And no, despite not being a Tory I am definitely not middle-class. And I have never considered myself to be particularly liberal, somehow marxist-lennist-liberal doesn’t sound right. But in comparison to many on here I appear to be very much liberal, certainly far more tolerant than many.

I tend to agree with you to some extent. I still think the forum has a strong centre right / establishment bias but its a lot less than it was.

I have no tolerance for tories and racists. I don’t apologise for that.

“No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.”

Never a truer word spoken. They are responsible for so much death and misery. Deliberately and directly they caused the impoverishment of millions while enriching themselves

Genuinely, a pack animal approach to anyone that doesn’t conform.

Those advocating tolerance can be the most intolerant of all!

It can certainly come across that way at times. I think some people are at a point of despair/desperation with the direction the country has taken that their default position is to overreact.

I still think the forum has a strong centre right / establishment bias

I think it’s left leaning, it’s just the right wing posts focus your attention and stick out amid the sea of centre/left commenters. You can probably name a lot of the right wing posters, but not all of the left, despite there being many. (I used to think the same as you, but some one with significantly more insight offered the above explanation.)

tom – I suspect many of those you see as centre left and see themselves as, I see as centre right. Its just the political centre has moved so far to the right in England. the labour party has not been a lefrt wing party for 30years

Definitely a left leaning forum (speaking as a left wing person)

I think some people are at a point of despair/desperation with the direction the country has taken that their default position is to overreact.

Guessing they must be young. I first became politically/socially aware from 1980 and the direction of the country was set then. They was a blip of hope around late 90’s but the direction has remained over the 40 years as a whole. It seems more obvious now due to social media, Brexit vote and so on but it only briefly went in a good direction and we are now back at 1980’s level with race and sex.

you see Kerley I would have you down as a centrist ( I think)

the only proper lefty on this forum is Ernie

the only proper lefty on this forum is Ernie

Aww *blushes*

You know I support brexit and hate political correctness dontcha?

I hate racism with every bone in my body though.

Wishy washy pale pink liberal then?

How can you hate a linguistic theory about not using prejudicial or pejorative descriptors for people?

Speaking correctly matters little to me. I make a big effort on here because I’m in polite company.

you see Kerley I would have you down as a centrist ( I think)

I have a very practical/realistic view of the lay of the land and what can be achieved within the UK today with the likes of Ernie being in what I see as the dreamer camp and where I was when I was much younger.
(although it is a dream I would want to live in given the choice – obviously not talking about real dreams here, I don’t really want Ernie dreaming about me!).

Speaking correctly matters little to me. I make a big effort on here because I’m in polite company.

Surely tho you would not use prejudicial or pejorative descriptions of people?

Absolutely. Including the ginger-haired **** that I sometimes do work for.

You know I support brexit and hate political correctness dontcha?

I hate racism with every bone in my body though.

Not really. ‘Ginger’ as a pejorative epithet is (after all) one of the most politically-correct/acceptable racial/minority slurs?

So maybe you’re not as brave/radical/sticking-it-to-the-PC-Brigade as you’d like think? 😉

you say you pretended to be unpc (twice?), and don’t understand what people assumed you aren’t pc, and whine about it?

I’m not whining. Just pointing out the hypocrisy. You can’t be a champion of rights and tolerance and then (a) deny people the right to express a contrary opinion and (b) slag someone else off.

If you really care about others, being nice to actual people on this forum will make more of a difference.

If someone says something stupid, disagree with it but don’t slag them off. Not everybody is gifted with the ability to express themselves clearly at all times, especially when tired, drunk or on the phone.

My methods might be obscure but the discussion has ended up in the right place. I agree with what Ernie said.

PS There was a homophobic comment earlier and nobody noticed. I guess we’re all part of one of society’s problems.

Pwned

Edit: *2

You can’t be a champion of rights and tolerance and then (a) deny people the right to express a contrary opinion and (b) slag someone else off.

Erm, that’s just someone disagreeing with you.

So maybe you’re not as brave/radical/sticking-it-to-the-PC-Brigade as you’d like think? 😉

Well did say that I make a big effort on here due to being in the presence of polite company. Also in real life I throw a lot more **** when expressing myself than I would ever do on here.

I’m very sensitive to people’s sensitivities……. I’m that sort of guy. Can’t you tell?

But yeah, anti-ginger is a form of racism which everyone can embrace – Reginald D. Hunter would agree with that.

Which is why I used it.

You can’t be a champion of rights and tolerance and then (a) deny people the right to express a contrary opinion and (b) slag someone else off.

Aye, you can. Intolerance of intolerance is fine.

Also, no one says you don’t have the right to express your opinion. No one is going to put you in jail if you express your opinion. That’s all freedom of expression means.

Freedom of expression does not mean freedom from consequences. Getting slagged off for voicing an unpopular opinion is one of those consequences.

If your opinion wasn’t bullshit you’d have no problems justifying it no matter how many people jumped in to slag you off. I think that’s the problem if you voice bullshit opinions in an unsupportive environment.

Like someone said earlier, go to pistonheads if you want people to congratulate you for being so witty and clever.

I’m not whining. Just pointing out the hypocrisy. You can’t be a champion of rights and tolerance and then (a) deny people the right to express a contrary opinion and

You can express an contrary opinion – and if its nonsense you will be called out on it. I fully expect it.

make a controversial statement you will be asked to back it up. thats how debate works and not all opinions are equal.

tjagain
Full Member

I tend to agree with you to some extent. I still think the forum has a strong centre right / establishment bias but its a lot less than it was.

Was this a joke?

Nope – its how I see it. the political map in England has moved so far right thats how it comes out. I see labour supporters as centrist or right of centre – cos thats where the party is.

I see labour supporters as centrist or right of centre – cos thats where the party is.

it was under Blair, I don’t think anyone would accuse Corbin as been right of most people. Who knows about under starmer I don’t know what he really stands for yet

tjagain
Full Member

Nope – its how I see it. the political map in England has moved so far right thats how it comes out. I see labour supporters as centrist or right of centre – cos thats where the party is.

Okay, fair enough – that’s interesting. I’d consider myself to be a lefty, but personally find this forum to be very strongly left wing on the whole.

You can express an contrary opinion – and if its nonsense you will be called out on it. I fully expect it.

make a controversial statement you will be asked to back it up. thats how debate works and not all opinions are equal.

Yeah but in crispo’s case the post was deleted by a mod. I can’t remember exactly what it said as it was over 60 posts ago, but it went along the lines of “it was just an innocent compliment and should have been accepted as such”.

IMO crispo’s remark was definitely nonsense, a random stranger catcalling a female cyclist should never be dismissed as merely an innocent compliment, and that’s quite apart from the fact that the comment was imo totally cringe inducing, who the **** comes out with bollox like that? It’s like something Lee Nelson would say for comedic effect.

But was crispo’s post offensive? I can’t see how it could be classed as such. It seems to me that a mod deleted crispo’s post because they didn’t like the opinion it expressed, not because it was offensive.

Which is fine of course – as has been pointed out if you don’t like it there’s always pistonhead. What makes it weird is people claiming that you are free to express your opinion. What would be more appropriate would be to claim that you are free to express the correct opinion.

IMHO

it was under Blair, I don’t think anyone would accuse Corbin as been right of most people

Policy under corbyn would have been fine in a CDU ( german centre right party) manifesto. Nothing in it was out of the ordinary for european social democratic or centrist parties. Its a sign of how far right England ( and I do mean england) has moved that Corbyns moderate centerist manifesto was seen as radical and far left

I have never seen opinions deleted but I didn’t see that post.

What makes it weird is people claiming that you are free to express your opinion.

It wasn’t his opinion though, he claims. It was a deliberately contrary opinion, one which was offensive to over half the country, which is trolling, which is against the rules.

He claimed it wasn’t really his opinion after the post had been deleted.

I have no idea how a mod might have known that it wasn’t really crispo’s opinion.

But was crispo’s post offensive? I can’t see how it could be classed as such. It seems to me that a mod deleted crispo’s post because they didn’t like the opinion it expressed, not because it was offensive.

Yes it was deleted. I said a page or two back that I reported it, I don’t remember exactly what it said now, but it was along the lines of ‘it’s not serious, it’s just banter’.  It, and also the first post / no comment clickbait-ey start touched a nerve that was a little raw after a conversation I’d had with my wife and 17yo daughter following the ‘Everyone’s Invited’ story of last week.

I don’t think I regret reporting but I did specifically say that I thought the mods should not delete it. I believe in freedom of expression, and also that the best way to expose a sexist or racist is by pouring sunlight, not bleach on their opinions. I wondered in my report if the better response would have been for one of STW’s lady staffers to give their opinion on the ‘just bantz’. If they were like DezB’s partner, or the story I got from my daughter, I suspect they would not agree.

Sadly this poster has -> IMHO <- previous with borderline dogwhistle opinions on the Covid thread. Ambiguous enough to deny, and/or like this time employ the ‘School debate’ defence on. But sometimes I trust my instinct.

I might be wrong in which case I’d happily apologise. I have asked on both threads to explain where they really stand. But if they aren’t genuine opinions then it’s getting close to trolling, ‘posting insincere / inflammatory messages with the intent of provoking’

I can’t remember exactly what I said, but it was along the lines of, um, it was intended as just a bit of jokey bantz and a compliment to boot, so was hardly sexual harassment, and I’ve had worse myself and not been bothered.

I will probably be banned for repeating that, but have done so because I really don’t think it’s offensive or misogynistic.

I think there is a large percentage of the population (not just male) who would think just that. You/we might not agree with them, but I think that opinion should be heard. It’s valid. Defend to the death etc.

Maybe I just hate to see people kicking the underdog. Educate, convince. Don’t condemn, mock.

Yes, I suppose I was trolling. I’m missing a best friend and a wife and some evenings are pretty lonely. But you all seem to have little better to do than kick a troll so it’s a public service really… 😂

PS JonV: I have a lot of respect for you but I have actually made it clear where I stand in both cases.

FWIW and I hope I don’t get in trouble here but the Mods message to me was:

we were aware of the thread and we’re keeping an eye on it, we’re not going to take the post down as the reaction of the other posters is a very good, condemning, one which is representative of the views of the mods and STW.

but then post was removed anyway including others that quoted it.