BBC bias – Scottish independence content

Is it better to have your own government in your own country

We already do. The bottom line is actually how you define ‘country’. This has always been complex across Europe.

Interesting ninfan!!! Stats and polls, hey!!!!

Nothing looks set to be more important in determining the outcome of the referendum than who wins and who loses the debate about the economic consequences of independence.

This is what it comes done to, so let’s forget the romantic “we just want to be free arguments”.

Winston maybe you could help me overcome my delusion and explain why operating costs will rise due to geography when asda and tesco have major distribution centres in Scotland?

explain why operating costs will rise

Are you serious?

I am making the assumption that you live in Scotland and have traveled around your Country?

Without using even the more far flung places as an example, if you want to travel from say Glasgow to Dunoon it is only about 35 miles, however this involves the use of a small car ferry which does not carry HGV’s. The road route is about 85′ on single carriageway A roads. This is additional time and cost which is currently absorbed by the whole UK network as it is a relatively small percentage of the UK total. Once the overall network is reduced then it will become a more significant percentage and the cost will have offset against a smaller number of customers.

I have actually lived in a more remote Scottish postcode and the vast majority of suppliers/couriers would not deliver or charged a premium to do so.

molgrips – Member
…The bottom line is actually how you define ‘country’. This has always been complex across Europe.

Never been complex here. My country is Scotland. UK is a union of countries.

I have actually lived in a more remote Scottish postcode and the vast majority of suppliers/couriers would not deliver or charged a premium to do so.

Exactly, the supermarkets already charge more/less in certain places and there’s a premium to send things to far flung places. Things are already more expensive, so what’s going to change?

Exactly, the supermarkets already charge more/less in certain places

No they don’t for the vast majority of items.

If you go to the Tesco in Kirkwall it is the same price for most things as the Milton Keynes store.

The remote Tesco stores in Lerwick, Kirkwall, Ullapool and Stornoway are surprisingly actually very profitable. Most items are charged the same as elsewhere due to this profitability. Inverness is also quite remote when considering distribution costs, yet the biggest Tesco there is one of the most profitable in the whole of the UK.

There are not many other Tesco, Asda, Morrisons or Sainsburys located in remote areas of Scotland. Unsurprisingly the vast majority are in close proximity to large centres of population. There is a very large Tesco distribution centre in Livingston which services Scottish stores and I believe some stores in the north of England.

Lot’s of fresh produce are sourced in Scotland which needs to be transported further afield so I take it costs in the south of England will need to rise as well? Is it that much more expensive to receive produce from Israel for example into Livingston than it is into Bolton or Doncaster?

Prices rising in event of Independence is simply a scare (non)story.

Sorry about the slow reply WD but I still do not understand why prices will rise should Scotland vote yes. The point about transport costs etc doesn’t really apply to the central belt.
As for national pricing policy’ it seems only Asda operate a policy of the same price in all their stores. Tesco, Morrisons and Sainsbury charge the same price in the same size of stores which disadvantages areas
with low population density as those areas don’t get the bigger stores with the cheapest prices. Interestingly the oh so ethical co-op has a policy of charging more in areas where there is less competition such as the part of the Highlands I live in. Thank you Co-op.

I give up.

Regarding the size of stores, this is the difference between Tesco Express and Sainsbury Metro compared to the normal stores.

The tesco in Kirkwall is not very big but is not a Metro or Express or what ever they are called. It sells stuff at the same price as other UK stores, this is their policy. This policy will remain if Scotland becomes independent, however, it will based on different demographics and a much smaller scale.

The central belt of Scotland is a very densely populated area of the UK, it is nothing like the rest of Scotland in so many ways.

Anyway, this will be a minor detail in the whole process if it goes ahead.

I will also repeat what I have said earlier, I am happy for Scotland to decide what they want to do and wish them all the luck. However, I think the whole process of splitting from the UK will cost a huge amount of money and will benefit no-one in the long run. If it turns into some free thinking utopia, that many on here seem to believe, I will simply head North and join you.

See you soon then 🙂

winston_dog – you are right in that this is a fairly minor detail.

To come back to the OP though, this thread was about BBC (media) bias in reporting. The supermarket price story was a classic example as the news one morning was full of “prices will go up” stories. By the afternoon the supermarkets were specifically saying this wouldn’t necessarily be the case. However, no retraction was made public.

Another example today that seems to have been “spun” regards a recent poll on EU voting intentions. The headline is that those intending to vote UKIP registered at 7% – a whole 2% up on the last EU elections. Buried in the article is that those intending to vote SNP have gone up from 29% to 43% – more than Labour and Tory combined. I can’t help feeling that would have been reported quite differently if it has been a 14% fall in projected SNP support 🙂

scotroutes – Which headline is this? Do you have a link?

Regarding this dull thread highjack, supermarkets operate on a large scale models to maintain their profitability, if you reduce the scale of the operation then you reduce profitability, therefore their retail prices increase.

Well at least (RB)Scotland was first on the news tonight! 😉

I agree it is a minor point Winston_dog, so going to the op.
michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com/…/the-scottish-independence-podcast-4.
Link is to former BBC Scotland reporter/presenter Derek Batemans podcast gives his views on independence and tells why he left BBC Scotland. Basically he reckons there is no bias no BBC position which reporters are encouraged to adhere to. He does think that cutbacks have left the news operation at Pacific Quay well under staffed, that BBC Scotland is failing to provide content that accurately reflects Scotland, and that management are incompetent, particularly that there is very poor communication within BBC Scotland and very poor p.r.
The podcast is long but imo worth a listen

Here you go: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/ukip-push-lib-dems-into-fifth-place-in-scotland-1-3281885

What do you reckon?

Scotroutes, I misread you initially about the supermarket reporting. I thought you were saying I was wrong about what Stan Blackley said, rather than what was said about supermarket pricing.

I did say I did not know whether prices would go up or not. I did not actually give it too much thought before reported and it certainly won’t affect the way I vote.

That being the case, am I right in saying that Stan Blackley’s private feelings are that he wishes some of our largest employers leave Scotland following a yes vote?

Seems he was naive about the problems misunderstanding ‘media reporting’.

I wonder if he was reminded of this prior to receiving the jaggy boot!

winston. Don’t be too hasty to pack the warm clothes and de-icer. “Free thinking” I reckon will be one of the first casualties of the tartan revolution.

I hope you learn your doric and scots before coming up. Straight from dear leaders mouth,

“People who don’t know what a quine or a loon are should not be commenting on Aberdeen politics”

Also, why would for example business leaders, particularly small struggling businesses wish to voice opinions contradictory to the yes camp when it’s members display such insightful views on the web?

scotroutes – Member

Another example today that seems to have been “spun” regards a recent poll on EU voting intentions. The headline is that those intending to vote UKIP registered at 7% – a whole 2% up on the last EU elections.

To be fair, that story was largely spun around the death of the Liberal Democrats, which is probably a more interesting story than “SNP continue to kick everyone’s ass”. At the current rate of decline they’ll fall below the Greens soon which is pretty remarkable, and sad.

And it was fun to see UKIP depict this as reflecting “general dissastisfaction in the main parties” against that backdrop. Obviously a 50% increase isn’t quite enough to indicate satisfaction.

What I found really interesting… Well, 2 things. One, UKIP’s 2% rise is accompanied by a 2.8% fall in the Tory vote, so it represents a net fall in the right wing vote. The other thing of course is that no bugger seemed to want to mention this- perhaps “Small minority votes for different losers” is less sexy than “Scotland isn’t as liberal as you thought!!1!”

Sorry to go back to this, but…

Winston-dog – so far as I can remember, none of the big three supermarkets operate in the Isles anyway. Stuck with the Co-op on Portree for instance – pricey and limited stock. Tescos have been threatening to open a branch there for years (the locals would love one) but have never made good on their promises.

And I see no reason why independence would suddenly require Morrisons to rush up North and build a hypermarket when they’ve never felt the need to do so before.

The upshot of which is that any talk of “increased costs” is pretty much hogwash.

Interesting development this morning.

Who’s driving it forward?

(scots abroad and south of the border content)

It is impossible to argue that distribution costs are not increased for anything outside of the central belt. The infrastructure North and South of there is limited. (Apart from the M74, which is very good.)

As an example there is a thread running on here about how about how rubbish the A9 is.

In an iScotland you will end up with the same argument that a lot of English put against Scotland, in your case the heavily populated Central Belt will be supporting and subsidising the rest of the country.

“People who don’t know what a quine or a loon are should not be commenting on Aberdeen politics”

Not surprised at that. That highlights one of the problem I have with Scottish Nationalists, a lot of them come out with pish like that. I would suggest that knowing what a BOP or an AHTS is, has more relevance to Aberdeen politics in the 21st Century?

I was being sarcastic when I said “free thinking” when discussing Scotland, after living in the Central Belt, “free thinking” the vast majority are not. Daily Record anyone?

Interesting development this morning.

Jim Delahunt coming out for independence?

So where are all these big supermarket operators outside of the densely populated areas? There are only a few of the big supermarkets operating a few key stores in remote yet profitable locations. The rest are smaller retailers who already charge increased prices to reflect the additional costs.

Why then would prices increase further due to independence? Areas which cost more to do business in due to higher distribution costs already have higher prices. Are you saying these will suddenly increase again? Why are people still spouting misinformation like this?

If under independence the Central Belt would be supporting and subsidising the other parts of the country then it must already be doing so now surely? I have never heard of anyone in the Central Belt complain about subsidising the Highlands in the way the English complain about “subsidising” Scotland in all my life. What utter pish.

I was being sarcastic when I said “free thinking” when discussing Scotland, after living in the Central Belt, “free thinking” the vast majority are not. Daily Record anyone?

What a bigoted little man you are.

winston_dog – Member

Not surprised at that. That highlights one of the problem I have with Scottish Nationalists, a lot of them come out with pish like that.

If you view it in context, he was merrilly taking the piss out of Nigel Farage, who had been almost proud in his declaration that he knew nothing about Aberdeen and Scotland. Treat it literally and it’s absurd, it’s just a way of saying “If you can’t be bothered to learn about the area, you’ll look stupid when you try to campaign there”

Athgray of course has seized on it as key evidence that we’re headed for the totalitarian Kingdom of Salmond. Which tells you how good the case for that is I reckon

winston_dog – Member
Is it because an independent Scotland is a stupid and expensive idea?

Hardly an excuse for bias. I note a lot of people on this forum are happy with the BBC bias as long as it supports there views. I believe this is called hypocrisy (not particularly aimed at you dog).
The BBC is simply unfit for purpose as is STV and should be closed down. At least then we may get the news according to fact and not according to the middle class politically correct view of the BBC. Any argument that Sky is biased has be backed up and proven. And more importantly shown to have a significant share of the market. Which the BBC clealy has.
For world news (particularly Arab news) I will continue to give al jazeera a look in. At least I know where I stand with them and I suspect they are less bias than the Bigots at the BBC.

.rene59 – Member
So where are all these big supermarket operators outside of the densely populated areas? There are only a few of the big supermarkets operating a few key stores in remote yet profitable locations. The rest are smaller retailers who already charge increased prices to reflect the additional costs.

Supermarket are required to compete on a national bases only. Only one supermarket has found to break this which was Tesco, who for short period of time sold some goods at lower price than in England and Wales. Blamed on different software.
Independent retailers are all part of cooperative and have all the BOGOF of the major retailers. What they lack is choice. Try using them as I do you will find this out.

.rene59 – Member
I was being sarcastic when I said “free thinking” when discussing Scotland, after living in the Central Belt, “free thinking” the vast majority are not. Daily Record anyone?
What a bigoted little man you are.

I live in England last time I met a “jock” his views were “I would never give an English man a job” He was of course working in England for an English firm. Also “I would never buy an English man a drink”. He of course waited till it was his round…. there’s a surprise!
You rene59 remind me of him. If someone disagrees with Scotsman and he is English he must be a bigot, is that your line rene59?

What a bigoted little man you are.

Really?

I lived and worked in the Central Belt for six years.

There were significant sectarian problems that really left a bad taste in my mouth. There was also much more casual racism than I currently experience in the south of England. (I’m not a “southerner” by the way). It may of just been the people I was working with but “free thinking” they certainly were not.

Ironically one of the best reasons to get rid of Scotland would be to get rid of a big chunk of people who will definitely be voting no.

Aye sure, the vast majority of the Central Belt are sectarian and racist and can’t think for themselves. Well done you.

SD-253 – I would be surprised if any “jock” could stomach your company long enough to buy you a drink.

It is impossible to argue that distribution costs are not increased for anything outside of the central belt. The infrastructure North and South of there is limited. (Apart from the M74, which is very good.)

I still don’t get this, how are costs going to rise? Same companies doing same distribution to same stores….?

.rene59 – Member
Aye sure, the vast majority of the Central Belt are sectarian and racist and can’t think for themselves. Well done you.

SD-253 – I would be surprised if any “jock” could stomach your company long enough to buy you a drink.

We will ignore “I would never give an English man job”
He could stomach mine and 3 other peoples company until it came to his round? Once he had a few to drink his true colours came out. Bit early for drinking rene59 how many have you had?

I think you guys are talking at cross purposes- it’s not that the costs will rise- it’s that they may already be higher, it’s just that currently that cost is smoothed across the UK. So “The costs are increased” rather than “Costs will increase”. Which seems pretty likely, just due to geography, though probably not as big as it initially seems due to uneven distribution of produce and stores etc

@SD-253, last time I met a Scottish person he was a phd fluent in 6 languages. Last time I met an English person he was a surly rude cock. I think these extensive samples might change in a minute though so my opinions on these nations of millions of people will probably also have to change.

Or… Since you’ve been spitting out that line for ages, and it’s incredibly unlikely that you’ve not met any “jocks” since then, shall we just assume it’s bollocks? Yes, let’s assume it’s bollocks.

Il ne peut être q’un seul

Akshewally, thinking about this…Most famous Scotchish people in the world;
Braveheart – Aussie
Highlander – Frenchman
😉

.winston_dog – Member
What a bigoted little man you are.
Really?

I lived and worked in the Central Belt for six years.

There were significant sectarian problems

.rene59 – Member
Aye sure, the vast majority of the Central Belt are sectarian and racist and can’t think for themselves. Well done you

Since when does significant equal the vast majority? Have you thought of getting a job in journalism? May I suggest BBC Daily Mail or Fox news?

I was being sarcastic when I said “free thinking” when discussing Scotland, after living in the Central Belt, “free thinking” the vast majority are not. Daily Record anyone?

CaptainFlashheart – Member

Highlander – Frenchman

Wait, Christopher Lambert isn’t Scottish? But his accent was so flawless! Next you’ll be telling me Sean Connery isn’t Egyptian.

SD-253 – Member

Independent retailers are all part of cooperative

No they aren’t.

, after living in the Central Belt, “free thinking” the vast majority are not. Daily Record anyone?

That’s a pretty broad brushstroke there Winston .You find bampots all over the world and Scotland is no exception. A plague on all their houses I say.

.Northwind – Member

@SD-253, last time I met a Scottish person he was a phd fluent in 6 languages. Last time I met an English person he was a surly rude cock. I think these extensive samples might change in a minute though so my opinions on these nations of millions of people will probably also have to change.

So lately you have met one Scot and one English man? So you don’t live in either country? My statement were obviously meant as counter to the views of rene59 – Member
In reference to costs of distribution Supermarkets are required to compete nationally as Scotland will be a separate country these rules MAY NOT have to apply. The RESULT MAY BE that the extra cost of distribution may be passed onto Scottish consumers instead of the English and the central belt of Scotland.