bb outboard bearings = hopeless!

Hmm. dont think the OP deserves grief.

external BB`s dont last as long.

but then i hated sq taper. such an antequated design. you could **** cranks pretty easily. they snapped if you left the ground. they also got notchy and failed.

all in my external bb’s dont last as long but i prefer them as the cranks are lighter and stiffer and i have less chance of getting 15 stiches in my leg.

they are also an expendable item. just like brake pads/disks. or tyres.

While we’re on bearing seals, can anyone give me a link to replacement top hats? I broke one on my Gusset ext 24.

you didn’t look too far then 😉

‘mechanical nonce’ it was worth reading the thread just for that

Klunk – Member
you didn’t look too far then

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bb-spares-question

I found those, and asked on another thread whether they would fit. No one replied but thank you for upholding the STW mentality. 🙄 😀

I will always recomend the hope bb as mine have not broken.
I have two of them. Most of my friends use them

And only one of them kills the bearings and he loves to pressure wash his bike lol

I don’t have a problem with the design as it works just fine for me and many others
All I can put it down to is user error in some way

I noticed this recently http://clee-cycles.co.uk/esite/P1048/product –
anyone know if these are any good ?

I was going through a bottom bracket every 6 months or so and went through the maths and ended up buying a set of Middlebun cranks and chin rings and a Shimano square taper BB.

Been fine or years. No fuss, no gaff, reliable smoothness.

It was a close call between a CK BB and the square taper stuff though. In the end I just couldn’t bear to part with a heap of cash for a grease gun for the CK stuff.

As per another thread…the square taper BB on an 18yr old GT Tequesta frame I’ve just got is still working

I like the OP so far. There are an awful lot of passive aggressive people on this forum, and Van Cough Cough seems no worse.

Whilst I really have no opinion on this, I will post a nice reply.

I agree with some/many of the posters here.

I have had the exact opposite experience. All the square taper BBs I have have failed really quickly while I have never had to replace any external ones. What have I been doing wrong?

I’m laughing myself silly at those who say I haven’t had any problems with 5 years of use blah blah still spinning free blah blah blah never taken it apart blah ha ha blah

Yeah. Sure. Guess what. You’re spindle is likely spinning in your inner race on your once a week in 5 years bike ride.

Thanks handyandy..

Lots of stupidity in this thread. Those claiming there isn’t an issue. I wonder if they are shills or just once a week riders? Either way, trying to make out that I am imagining all of this when at least 5 people in this thread have expressed agreement is somewhat irritating. To the degree that I wouldn’t necessarily ask any technical questions on this forum. I just wouldn’t trust the responses.

Hope’s plastic disc. Yorkshire Fail.

Hope’s plastic disc. Yorkshire Fail.

Not only a bad rant about a decent product but a total lack of basic map reading as well

You have your opinion, not everyone shares it. That’s life I’m afraid. There is probably quite a bit of laughter going on elsewhere as well

VCC – so do you want to sell your dreadful Hope bb then?

Are external BBs worse than square taper? For me yes. I’ve a 10 year old un72 bb that’s still spinning smoothly in one bike, whereas I’ve managed to kill an external BB in less time than it took a flask of hot water to go cold! (Seriously – I made up a flask before riding the Kielder 100 one year on a new BB, by the time I finished the BB was shot but the flask was still piping hot!)

I can get a year or so out of a Hope BB
About 3 months from a Shimano (longer if we’re talking about road bikes)- same with FSA
I can count the lifespan of GXPs in hours

Tempted to go ‘back to the old school’ 🙂

Can’t say I’ve ever ridden a square tapered BB and thought “damn, this just isn’t enjoyable because of all that darned BB flex” either…

Though the reduced longevity annoys me, I’ll trade it for the ease of maintenance of HT2.

The real problem with HT2, though is that its backwards compatibility makes it a temporary solution for the industry anyway – Bearing cups added to the outside of the BB shell gives no benefit to frame stiffness. It’s only logical that bike designers look at HT2 and think: “Look at all the extra triangulation I could have on the seat and downtube if only I had that extra shell width to play with…” That led to PF30 / BB30 etc. but that’s another can of joyful worms for the OP to experience one day 😀

Not sure what I’ve done right but I’m currently running 4 shimano BBs (all XT) that have been perfect. One has lasted 2+ years and two have lasted 1+ years. I just take the tophats off and pack them with grease at the beginning of winter and once winter has gone. Still run smooth and had no issues. Downside is that there is more friction from the packed BBs but this is not really noticeable to me.

I always pack everything that has bearings with grease though and have all lasted a very long time.

Bikes get used a various amount from 3-6 days a week to once every other week but they have all seen hell for prolonged periods of time.

Yeah. Sure. Guess what. You’re spindle is likely spinning in your inner race on your once a week in 5 years bike ride.

No.

I’ve had some very mixed results with outboard BBs. By far and away the least useful have been RaceFace. I killed a LBS fitted set in five dry summer months.

Next up are Truvativ, which rarely seem to eke out more than a year before GXP-Grind strikes. It’s always the non-drive side that dies for some reason.

I’ve never used Hope, but have never had to. I replaced a three year old SLX jobbie a few months ago, but my Shimano equipped bikes seem to run on and on quite happily.

The moral of this tale is that you need to avoid anything RaceFace if it has bearings, splines or if it rotates.

I’ve had some very mixed results with outboard BBs. By far and away the least useful have been RaceFace. I killed a LBS fitted set in five dry summer months.

Yeah Race Face bearings really are gash.

OP I’ve got an unused set of Shimano HTII bearings if you want to swap for the crappy Yorkshire (sic) Hope model

Interesting to hear of the mixed experiences in this thread! I have never found the XT type to last very long – 6 months is good for my MTB’s, road 2-3 years. The square taper ones on my tourer and on my commuter have lasted far longer, and my wife’s Isis also seems to last well.

What I have definitely noticed is that if you levae a bike unattended for a while the HTII bb’s sometimes seize up – probably rust being the culprit here.

re preloading external bb’s – how much is too much? I have the plastic widget which I turn finger tight. Too much? I once udner did this and the non drive crank came off! So I have probably erred on the side of too much ever since.

I’ve had prety mixed experiences to be honest.

My old square taper BB’s used to last ages, but I did suffer a bit with rounding off cranks (although the FSA Sidewinders I used then were made of cheese).

ISIS in my experience was rubbish – I used to go through loads of BB’s, even the so call ‘good’ Truvativ ones. I pretty much had two on rotation; one in the bike and one back with the distributor. The shop I worked in at the time was always replacing them.

HTII has been mixed – I like the ease of removing the cranks, which is great when faffing with axle spacing in Race Face cranks. My experience of their bottom brackets has always been really good. My first Diabolus one last yonks. The Shimano XT ones have been good for me but the Deore ones not so.

My Saint one on the SX Trail is still fine a year later but the last Deore one I had on my jump bike seized up after three rides. I think like someone else saide, they don’t like to be stood after getting wet and this bike wasn’t getting much use at the time.

I’ve not tried a Hope one yet, because I’m tight! The Shimano ones are so cheap from the German shops that they’re disposable.

I think that its here to stay – well at least until we’re forced to buy something else!

My biggest issue is now the op assuming I don’t know my hope bb is broken and I’ve not noticed
The mtb I use the most does about 50 miles a week in the mud and filth and the hope bb is just fine

I see for him its not been like that but to attack those with a different view to his is rather funny much like his geography

The OP may have a point, he may just be a deluded paranoid lunatic. It’s hard to tell, given his unusual debating style.
I used to get pretty good life out of UN72s, but the creaking used to annoy me somewhat. Not to mention the constant ‘to grease or not to grease a square taper’ arguments on forums.
My personal experience with External BBs is as follows:
I fitted an XT one to a ’99 Mount Vision without facing the shell – that one is now 6 years old and running fine – but to be fair I haven’t ridden that bike much for the last 4 years.
I bought a 2009 Anthem X with XT as standard – last week I replaced the BB. After Mayhem last year, I did pop the seals off, rinse the bearings out with GT85 and re-grease them, and to be fair they were still fine when I replaced them, I just fancied a bit of KCNC bling.
I have a 2010 Defy 1 road bike with Tiagra external BB – that’s still fine.
So my experience is clearly different to the OP’s. According to him, that makes me stupid, a shill, and dishonest. This is such a bizarre way of viewing the world I can only conclude he is a troll.

I’m confused, if I only ride once a week how would I still not notice my BB being broken?

My hardtail runs twice/three times a week in all weathers with a Hope BB and it’s been fine.

My SS road bike runs a (unknown to me) square taper BB and has done literally thousands of miles over the last 5 years in all weathers.

Which is better? Hard to say they both just work for me. 🙂

I love Hope.

They are not to blame for outboard bearings. I just think they could come up with something better than the current plastic disc.

I think the plastic top hat makes more sense.

On systems like Hope the spindle will turn to some degree in the inner race, even on a fresh install. It’s inevitable. The top hat allows for a tighter fit. Forgive me, but a tight fit between bearing and spindle makes more sense than fairly free metal to metal contact. Plus grease. It’s counter intuitive. I think. Therefore I am.

Anyway, to add more to this story. It seemed the bearing hadn’t seized. Just by hand I couldn’t overcome a glitchy notch. A tiny bit more force and it turned. So it must have turned inside normally. Still marks the spindle though, as I said.

I see no proof of that statement visible on my axels in bbs that work and although abused get well maintained.

Yours was siezed hence it span

Never seen hub bearings with a plastic tophat between bearing and axel

Name another application where plastic top hats are used and sucessful

Remind me how well plastic top hat bushes for suspension pivots.held up in muddy conditions.

Top hats are not used on a hub because it’s possible to achieve a push or press fit during assembly ensuring enough fiction to prevent rotation relevant to the inner race even when starting to seize.

Press fit on a crank to outboard bearing would be very difficult to achieve and make assembly a nightmare. The top hats provide tolerance and also leeway in event of a seize.

Suspension bushes are subject to wear from relative movement, unlike the top hat which suffers no wear in intended use.

Personally current slx lasted miles of frequent riding, battering, peak grit, rain and neglect which is up there with my experience of UN72s but no issue with crank tapers rounding out, axles snapping or extractor threads stripping.

trailhat. asshat. bunny. easter.

Yes, my frame has been faced properly(not that this makes a damn bit of difference in my view – surely the key issue here is whether the threads have been tapped parallel with each other and or their angle is on the p1ss relative to the BB shell / frame itself?)

If you fit a HT2 cup into a shell with a really bad face you can see the cup contact one point while a gap exists elsewhere. If you continue to tighten and watch closely.. you will see the cup deform as it pulls in tight to the face of the shell. This can only mean one thing – two bearings that aren’t running parallel to each other.. followed by the preload of the chainset messing things up even further before the bike even hits the trails.

Another thing – leave the dust on the HT2 cups, don’t spray them with bike wash after each and every ride followed by a hose down. You’ll be amazed at how long stuff lasts.

Campy use very good system “ultra torque”
The bearings are a very tight fit on the cranks and need a puller to remove them
Each arm has a short bit of axle attached and they meet in the middle of the bb she’ll
Apart from Specialized I’ve not seen any like that for mtb ?

I sue Chris King, never had an issue, buy cheap buy twice

I might need to eat humble pie…

Got my pick out.. removed the bearing covers and had a good clean out and all seemed fine.. so what is it that causes the notchines when at rest? All bearings seem shiny and well.. maybe I misjudged them..

I repacked them with some Silkolene Pro Rg2 motorcycle bearing grease which is the yummiest grease I have ever played with and all is good. All smooth.

I dunno. Been a long week/month. Hellish in fact.

My two pennyworth, I am going back to square taper having seen and heard too many horror stories about short life bearings, I now strip and repack all my bearings with Krytox grease, I was lucky enough to win a 500g tub on ebay.
I dont remember wearing that many out when all we had were all steel setups held together with cotter pins and a lot of our time was spent offroad.
For those too young to remember cotter pins=massive pain in the neck, forever coming loose or totally refusing to budge when you wanted to get them out. 🙂