bb outboard bearings = hopeless!

im still angry about that placcy disk.

I suppose ill chuck my tuppence in bbut this problem will always be around so its a matter of the same old ground 😕

One would surmise that the further apart the bearings are in relation to the axle would give it more support and prevent any uneven movement, this however doesnt seem to be the case as the bearings now appear to be under a heavier load and are wearing out far quicker than the old inboard bearing mounted square taper.

It should work but it isnt and i think that one of the possible reasons(or the only reason rather) is that the axle itself is flexing inside the BB shell and putting uneven force on the bearings each time you push forward on the crank 😕

Any of this making sense to anyone ? I’m poo at explaining things 😳

Further adds 😕
Its possible i think that the calculations for strength to diameter ratio are wrong and to replace a solid hardened steel bar with a hardened(i would think) steel tube the tube would need to be either wider or thicker.

Anyone know what the goal was in redesigning the BB ? was it to save weight, add strength or(cynical) sell another bit)

square taper axels used to snap and tapers would round with bad fitting or soft materials

ISIS had splines to give more contact area and bigger axel – smaller bearings were used to accomodate

hollowtech 2 uses the big axel and bigger bearings but houses them externally.

Square tapers used to snap? I rarely saw snappages. Now we just see bearing and crank failure pootling to the shops or going to work.

I don’t even know how much wear on a spindle renders a crank unusable? Even if I buy another SLX at bikedirect.de, cos they are cheaper than all the UK places, it’s still £110 I didn’t need to spend.

It worries me that I have to check behind that disc every week. That’s not tolerable maintenance to me, cos I grew up with square taper, where an XT UN72 unit could be had for £15 and literally go for years with no ingress to the bearing. There was a lot more than a plastic disc leading to the bearings in those units.

So.. grease behind the disc a bad idea?

I’m tempted to rig up some kind of headset lizard skin around the crank arm/bearing interface. Maybe not enough room round drive side though, I’ll try and see what I can come up with.

Back to sq taper snappages and rounding off.. as long as you installed the crank right first time, properly torqued, my experience was that the crank would stay put. I did have experience with a Firex that seemed to keep needing retorquing every few weeks, but I am sure that could have been solved with loctite or superglue on the crank bolt.

I might seem I am knocking Hope about the bearing protection in their BB’s, but it seems to me that things have gone tits up with BB’s over the last few years.

Yeah maybe I should have gone for Chris King, they have a grease port don’t they?

The only slight problem with Useing taper stuff now is getting good ones at an ok price
Un72 long discontinued and the top shimano one un55 is ok but not a patch on un72

For me I’ve got Royce in one bike and a Phil in another but both were a few quid when I got them years ago
Let alone now

On a slight tangent – might I suggest that the OP is a bit of a Grumpa Lumpa..?
a Stropalotagus Rex..?

I quite like HT2 in shimano or hope guise FWIW

Grumpy? Hardly. There’s an issue with the outboard bearings I have. I cannot be the only person experiencing this crap.

Also amazed at that axle to bearing interface. What kind of lame fit is that anyway? Almost free running anyway. Seems badly engineered IMO.

One of my bikes is on it’s second bb in 20 years. It was left in the rain, unused for 8 years on current bb and now serves as a singlespeed road bike.
The bb is smoother than a brand new xtr HT2 that I’ve just put on another bike.
This old bike also has basic cup and cone Deore hubs to reduce maintenance.

Modern kit is easy to install and nice and light but like most shit these days is designed to wear out nice and quickly.

There’s some good kit around, it just disappears too quickly. Just cos I stayed with 9 speed it now feels like I have to really search around to carry a few spares. Madness. I like SRAM X9 shifters and rear mechs, and like their Shimano equivalents, they last forever.

But bottom brackets? Seriously what the ****?

The only non crap (superstar seized after 2 rides in the dry, replacement one collapsed on the drive side within a few more summer rides) ext BB I’ve had that failed prematurely was a shimano XT, an early one about 2006 or so? The drive side went within a few months from new.

Last one I fitted in about 2009, just a basic £12.50 deore and thats been spinning fine ever since, however I basically do not wash my bike anymore, only drive chain & stanchions, everything else stays manky to avoid unwanted water ingress, bikes also live in the house next to a radiator all the time.

I had shimano XT outboard bearings for five years with heavy use and this is on the west coast of Scotland.

My Deore HT2 lasted 3 rides, after which it was siezed completely on the nds. Utter utter junk. The XT replacement is still fine after 4 rides, so is clearly fantastic. Strangely, the GXP on my other bike has lasted 2 years in similar conditions despite being universally derided as junk. Bit of a bonkers system tho (assemble, torque up, curse at amount of play in cranks, disassemble, pack more grease in, reassemble, curse at amount of play in cranks, repeat until bed time).

Gotta agree with the OP though, never had any problems with square taper and really can’t see the point (other than making us by stuff) of these silly new fangled BBs

OP, you sound like you understand bikes. Surely the fact that many of us have high mileage offroad Hope BB’s still going strong after many years suggests that something you are doing isn’t quite right? Doesn’t make you a retard, but we all do something not quite right on our bikes from time to time.

My Hope ceramic has been ridden in dreadful conditions, and is still running perfectly. I’ve never removed the plastic cover and regreased mine. Maybe leaving sealed up and doing nothing is the ideal maintenance programme for a bb?

One thing I have learnt is that there is always a reason!

Water sitting in the BB shell?

My experience of Shimano HTII BB’s is this.

They were rubbish for the first year or so after launch.

They are now fine. My current one has lasted getting on for a year, being ridden 3 times a week (circa 10 hours a week) all year round.

I would put money on the OP jetwashing his bike on 11!

I prefer HTII to square taper by the way.

hmmmm user error im afraid

3+ year old ceramic hope bb, fitted on 3 different frames and still spins like new!

was a little grouchy and squeeky after 6 months constant wet/shitty/muddy/gritty peak district use last summer/winter (rolled into one from memory), but took seal out, took bearings out and cleaned…..back running to silent again

has covered at least 3000 peak off road miles mostly in terrible weather!

not sure how i could have just got ‘lucky’ with that, only thing i can say is about every 6 months i take it out give it a full clean and put it back in! it gets washed reguarly too and the bearings havent failed me yet in 3 years

Shimano ones last ages for me, up until a few months ago I was still using a crankset/BB I bought in about 2006/7.

I would put money on the OP jetwashing his bike on 11!

don’t think you need to jet wash to ruin HTII with water. Their position on the bike and design makes it very easy for water to linger and as a result the bearings rust.

I rarely wash the bike. I clean the necessary mostly i.e. chain etc. Amazed that people keep avoiding the obvious i.e. the fact that the bearing is rather exposed behind that Hope plastic disc. I notice the Shimano top hat cover extends further back so dirt can only get around one edge not two and grips the spindle better. Still, nice to see some people can see the wood for the trees.

To be quite honest I am thinking of selling both my Hope BB’s and fit the Shimano ones that came with the cranks instead or buy XTR BB’s from Rose.

I have noticed the fit between plastic sleeved BB bearings like Shimano and the crank spindle is much tighter. Even on an undamaged crank the fitting between a Hope inner bearing race (or similar i.e. Enduro Hope replacement) and spindle is worrisome. Should it be greased at all? Is metal to metal hardly snug almost free running fit a good idea on the BB/spindle?

I seem to have lost hope in my Hopes.

Can you fit regular bearings in the Hope and use a top hat like Shimano? Probably not.

Sniffle…

Can I just point out that I never removed the bearing seal. I am talking about the plastic outer seal. Well that and the dreadful seemingly illogical free fit metal to metal fit.

My Hope bb has a GXP adapter and an X0 crank which is snug as a bug!! Maybe that’s it?

mines a fairly snug fit – you aint pushing it in by hand thats for sure , requires persuasion from a rubber hitting stick.

my shimano BB on my race bike lasted only a number of months – in comparison my hope ceramic has lasted many years – since 2009

including a number of endurance races in really shitty conditions and abused with pressure washers at said events.

my SS bike i use mostly has a hope ceramic in and gets fully abused with a rare wash provided by a road ride in the rain. its now 3 years old and has had one strip, clean and regrease due to a rough feeling drive side only a matter of weeks ago.

no grooves in any axles

my commuting shimano i talked about earlier is starting to complain this morning (i spoke too soon :() its an alfine chainset so assume deore level BB. Its lasted 6 months. Ill probably fit a hope ceramic since i can trust them through a process of testing on other bikes.

our road bikes only come out in good weather – usually use the commuters (alfined) in bad. so the ultegra BBs on them last plenty time – usually longer than the drive trains.

Maybe the seals can’t deal with borderline aggression, lack of tolerance and a bad attitude. Perhaps they will do anything to escape – even destroy themselves.

If you can’t be at least civil to others trying to help maybe you need to avoid contact with them…?

you can fit regular 25 mm ID bearings in Hope cups both enduro and Phil woods sell new ‘Top Hats’

the problem with all the BB standards is the size of the BB shell for Square taper you end up with a weedy axle
for HT2 and BB30 you end up with tiny bearings stuck on the outside…
Truvative Howitzers are IMO the best of a bad bunch….

whats needed is a larger BBshell large angular contact bearings behind a layered set of seals…an outer dust sheild and an inner seal + proper seals from inside the shell

grease ports are of merit but are an answer to poor design sealing…..

for all that I think a properly set up HT2 is reasonably robust and I get 12 months + out of them

Chris King, currently on 4 years. You need to remove the crankset to re-grease it using the tool though.

Shimano SLX seem to last ages for me, couple of years on commuter bike that does about 4000 miles a year, rain shine or snow. Square taper lasted similar time, although i have philwood on a single speed thats been going for 5 years and looks like it will last forever. Some bad pitting on the case though. I have a UN72 from around 20 years ago that is still seized in a frame, the frame bent trying to get it out.

Commuter now runs a Hope, just because im worth it.

The top hats will fit Hope?

top hats only fit if you change the bearing.

its not really a hope BB any more then its just a pair of hope cups.

i dont run them cause they are a pretty colour i run them because their bearings last.

yes top hats will fit

as trail rat say’s [its not really a hope BB any more then its just a pair of hope cups.]

+ the bearing rating will be lower as bothe the enduro and hopes have larger balls / better quality races….

I’d suggest fitting some new bearings from Enduro or hope…. repack them with Marine waterproof grease 1st (lift the seals use a stanley knife on the bearings both sides and push through grease from one side refit seal and fit bearings)

On a slight tangent – might I suggest that the OP is a bit of a Grumpa Lumpa..?
a Stropalotagus Rex..?

You’re not kidding…

I’ve had no problems with Hope BBs, hubs or headsets. Anyone who knows the South Pennines will tell you that the gritstone geology round here soon exposes weaknesses in bearings, and I can’t say I’ve had any problems that I wouldn’t expect.

Grumpy? Hardly. There’s an issue with the outboard bearings I have.

You have an issue with most things judging by previous posts…your attitude to helmet use still the same??

I think you just have to accept that BB bearings will periodically need replacing.
I’ve never had more than 6 months out of a Raceface external, but after a year of using Hope it is still smooth.
I also went back to a square taper UN55 on my SS, but as my 2nd one since January is now creaking(!)- I will probably revert to HT2. 🙄

Amazed that people keep avoiding the obvious i.e. the fact that the bearing is rather exposed behind that Hope plastic disc.

No one thinks this is an issue because every single other bearing on a bike uses pretty much the exact same system!

Headset, suspension pivots, wheel bearings, all of them are cartridge bearings that are sealed as part of the bearing, and an outer cover of some kind which just snugs on top of the bearing.

My XT bottom bracket has lasted two years with nothing more than greasing the crank spindle. I’ve taken the cranks off about four times over those two years, and it still spins smoothly. Maybe your hope did fail on you early which sucks, but if you really think HTIIs are so bad, then go back to a square taper.

So dishonest above!

Lots of people in this thread see a problem. Can’t help it if you are a mechanical nonce.

Some outer covers are better than others. Few items are as exposed as the BB bearing. Hope’s plastic outer isn’t that good. The top hat is better – only one edge (the outer diameter of the disc) is exposed to ingress not two. I’d wager the inner diameter edge is the most vulnerable wrt Hope.

Stuff gets behind it easily. No brainer. Perhaps Hope had their Yorkshire puddings switched off when they thought it was a good idea. Perhaps they were too busy with cleaning out the pigeons and harassing sheep or working out the ker ching ker ching non-austerity on each single replacement bearing.

Pish.

Well, at least you are consistent OP!

Someone agrees with you = pleasant response.
Someone disagrees with you = you insult them…

Either you have a very different offline personality or you must be just lovely to live/work with or even just bump into! I would respond to your post detailing my experiences to date, but I would rather comment on the fact that after 30 years of cycling and obviously a greater span of life experience, you still think it acceptable to personally slate people who have different experiences…

And seeing as your Hope bb is so crap, Ill give you £10 for it. Paypal ok?

I’ve had no problems with Hope BB’s

I have two, the silver one is a good 5 years old and is still very smooth.

The black one is 3 years old and is the same.

Both bikes are ridden off road in all weather. Both BB’s are on their second frame.

No maintenance to speak of other then giving them a wipe when the cranks are off to change a chainring or when swapping the BB to a new frame.

I wish frame bearings were as reliable and hard wearing

Lots of people in this thread see a problem.

More people getting insulted in this thread than agreeing with you.

Seems like someone got out of bed the wrong side this year.

Getting tired of OP’s incessant whining, failure to accept reason & downright rudeness, not just of people’s posts, but now stereotyping the staff at Hope (I don’t work for Hope & only have a Hope headset, that came with HT frame, so not a Hope fanboy either).
As the OP’s argument seems to revolve around the plastic outer, not the actual bearing seal, I thought I’d add this picture

This shows a Chris King BB, which is incredibly durable, with only a small plastic cover (which sits on the axle & as pointed out to OP long long ago in this thread, will allow him to run his original chainset without any clicking/grinding from wear to crank axle & bearing interface, as most BB’s are axle to bearing, whereas CK have this small plastic sleeve).
So, if the CK BB works without huge chunks of plastic wrapped around the BB, perhaps the Hope one can too? Although I encountered a short lifespan on my Hope BB, anecdotal evidence on this thread indicates that longevity is generally good.
If the OP is really that unhappy, ditch the Hope, buy a CK & stop getting so defensive & abusive.

As I have had a spare few minutes I thought I would just trawl through replies to see what balance of views expressed. Ignoring OP’s posts, I make it 35 disagree with him, 14 agree at least in part. I would suggest that means ‘lots’ don’t see the problem.

Actually, I should make that 36

Plus 1 for good experience with Hope BB ( non-ceramic).
Its the only BB I haven’t had issues with. I certainly have self-inflicted issues caused by washing and then leaving in the garage damp but the Hope BB has withstood same punishment without complaint….

this thread has taught me 1 thing, the OP is a bit of a bellend.

as far as BB’s are concerned i’ve had no issues at all with shimano bearings with them lasting well over a year without issue, same for hope , raceface and GXP BB’s are a different story though they reaqlly are terrible.
have an E thirteen crank&BB on my current bike and it also seems fine so far after 3 months of winter use.