Viewing 28 posts - 41 through 68 (of 68 total)
  • BAD BORIS and UK Imigration
  • theboatman
    Free Member

    Care sector recruitment is already a national problem, I totally agree with TJ’s initial comments about care homes, but feel there is a far greater risk in relation to home care. Regardless of political alliances, I feel the whole political system failed us, all parties, by allowing an election to be effectively a second referendum due to their total incompetence.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Some were incompetent, but for some it played out exactly as they hoped it would.

    yourguitarhero
    Free Member

    The salary cap seems the wrong way around to me. Surely you should only be allowed in if your job offer is less than £25k?
    That way employers will be forced to give high paying jobs to Brits (maybe having to train them) and we can get immigrants in to do the more menial jobs that will get automated out of existence soon. That way you have a high paid, high skilled local population who can pay lots of taxes, buy lots of consumer goods – keeping the economy churning – and are prepared for the world of the future.

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    FuzzyWuzzy
    Full Member

    There’s only one alternative.

    Given this is the Tories and their solution to every problem they’re creating seems to be ‘technology’ I’m surprised BoJo’s not rabbiting on about how robots will take over the crap jobs no one else wants to do.

    kerley
    Free Member

    It sound great for the Tories to put out this message as it is what a lot of people want

    What will probably happen in reality is that there will be 100’s of exception for each sector which won’t be shouted about and covered in the media they will be slowly created week by week.
    We need more hospitality people – knock up an exception to ignore the £25K and qualifications criteria
    We need more care workers – knock up an exception to ignore the £25k criteria
    etc,.

    Will end up exactly as it is now but with loads of exceptions that the general public are not aware of are are happy in the knowledge that no immigrants are coming in because of the 70 point thing.

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    tomhoward
    Following on from compulsory contraception the other day, compulsory euthanasia for anyone not able to pay for their own care.

    I made that prediction for about now 50 years ago.

    As a baby boomer, every time we hit a new step in the system, it wasn’t ready for us.

    For example they had 5 years advance knowledge of us coming to equip the schools, but got inadequate provision and huge classes, 18 years for university, etc etc.

    We have not had a global war to cull the generation as happened with the WW1 and WW2 generations, so more of us survived young adulthood.

    Now we are EOL and about to really hit the care system in a tsunami. It will not be able to care for us. Perhaps fortunately for the system, most of my generation smoked heavily so there has been some self-culling.

    We’ll see measures introduced under the auspices of “dignified death” etc, but with this mob it’s likely to have the parameters squeezed until it becomes compulsory or the only option for those whose families cannot afford care. (If you don’t know how much that costs, check it out. It will be educational for you)

    If we are going to have a Solyent Green government, this lot are shaping up nicely…

    philjunior
    Free Member

    I predict an employer backlash; in fact, it’s already started.
    Do wetherspoons employ lots of EU nationals? When will tim martin have something to say about this?

    Indeed. There was a bloke from NE Scotland fishing industry whose members overwhelmingly voted for Brexit stating that 70% of their workforce are EU migrants. Total facepalm moment. How can they believe all the crap about their low quotas being solely the fault of the EU and not see who they’re working with/employing? The bloke on the radio even said there were no locals for these jobs because of the offshore industry, which sounds about right.

    The salary cap seems the wrong way around to me. Surely you should only be allowed in if your job offer is less than £25k?
    That way employers will be forced to give high paying jobs to Brits (maybe having to train them) and we can get immigrants in to do the more menial jobs that will get automated out of existence soon. That way you have a high paid, high skilled local population who can pay lots of taxes, buy lots of consumer goods – keeping the economy churning – and are prepared for the world of the future.

    I see your point, but this doesn’t fit with the Tories’ thinking very well (if they’re poor they can’t deserve to be allowed in here) and might cause problems when you start paying foreign GPs pennies*

    It does seem to work quite well for the locals in the Gulf region though. The standard of service and cleanliness in hotels in Dubai and Qatar is really good, in Doha I remember there was always someone cleaning something, right down to constant dusting of all the hard surfaces in the hotel lobby. Not sure how I feel ethically about it, but it must work for the workers to some extent or they wouldn’t come.

    *The global market would probably prevent this to an extent, but it’s a potential effect.

    stevextc
    Free Member

    There’s only one alternative.

    They plan to replace them with cheaper labour from 3rd world countries, but they’ll wait until every employer is howling about how they are unable to fill starvation wage jobs because locals are lazy welfare spongers.

    Expect an influx of “temporary” workers from Bangladesh, and other poverty stricken countries. They’ll probably live in employer supplied barracks and get much less than the living wage.

    Alternative? This has been the plan all along.

    stevextc
    Free Member

    For counterpoint, the Romanians on my street are a couple, rent a 3 bed house, and are raising two British born kids. I don’t think they are going back soon.

    In many way’s it’s like Las Vegas. I was there on a conference and had a taxi twice a day (only real time I saw outside) … it’s a god awful place in the middle of beautiful desert and mountains but I consistently got told by taxi drivers they had come to make money and then go home to settle down and now they were trapped…. this is very much how many of my (EU immigrant) friends feel about the UK now.

    alcolepone
    Free Member

    “You will need 70 points available by being highly skilled, having a job paying more than £25,000 pounds and a few other things”

    so all high skilled jobs now could get a influx of global workers happy to work for £25,000 where existing roles currently demand a higher wage. Meanwhile all those low skilled low salary’d jobs become available due to current workforce getting “kicked out”…that’s the way i see the tory plan working. Remove the middle class.

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    It’s like the Tory’s are aiming at continuing to woo the working class and sod the middle class. Inverse Tory.

    Odd times eh! Mind you,Tory is Tory. Everyone will get screwed one way or another. Just a matter of how and when now.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    so all high skilled jobs now could get a influx of global workers happy to work for £25,000 where existing roles currently demand a higher wage. Meanwhile all those low skilled low salary’d jobs become available due to current workforce getting “kicked out”…that’s the way i see the tory plan working. Remove the middle class.

    Teachers, nurses etc

    binners
    Full Member

    The Tory’s are simply moving on to the next stage of the project. Whats happening here is that the middle class jobs are effectively going to be outsourced. In much the same way as the working class jobs have been for the last 3 decades with the initial wave of low skilled immigration.

    The world of insecure, zero hours, pension and paid-leave-free, gig economy jobs is about to get a lot bigger and move into new middle class areas.

    Up to now the tory’s have managed to convince the Waitrose class that they’re on their side. They’re not. They represent the 1%. Always have, always will. They needed the aspirational middle classes on side while they took a hatchet to working class job security. Now they’re moving on to the middle class to do the same, they’re not going to get much sympathy from the newly-tory-voting former semi-skilled factory workers, now delivering Amazon packages

    Classic divide and rule. Classic Dom

    molgrips
    Free Member

    The Tory’s are simply moving on to the next stage of the project.

    You’re assuming there is a plan, like this is all some kind of carefully orchestrated skillfully executes project.

    It’s not. They are just people who will say anything to anyone to get votes, and now are randomly implementing bits of that to keep people happy with no care for the consequences.

    binners
    Full Member

    The muppets presently masquerading as the government don’t have a plan. Of course not.

    Do you honestly think they’re the ones calling the shots? You think Priti Patel came up with yesterdays policy announcement? Or Boris? Of course they didn’t. I’d imagine they barely have a passing interest. They’re all merely (very well-paid) mouthpieces for the real people in charge, who are staying well out of the public eye.

    The Brexit campaign and the Tory party are extremely well and extremely opaquely funded. You want to know who’s setting the agenda, just follow the money*

    * you can’t, of course. They’ve made sure of that. Dominic Cummings will know where the generous funding came from, obviously, but he won’t be telling anyone who doesn’t need to know

    perchypanther
    Free Member

    I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.

    perchypanther
    Free Member

    Dominic Cummings will know where the generous funding came from, obviously, but he won’t be telling anyone who doesn’t need to know

    …such as the Prime Minister

    alpin
    Free Member

    F me few UK is a regressive place….

    binners
    Full Member

    …such as the Prime Minister

    I doubt he’d even ask?

    He doesn’t strike me as being particularly curious about such matters

    He didn’t appear to know who paid for his posh holiday in Mustique. Or care.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    I seem to know a lot of people who assume that this is all part of some over arching Tory Masterplan.

    I’m pretty sure that they don’t actually have a clue what the real world implications of their random policy announcements will be, and so they just lurch from one disaster to another.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    How do you get to pick and choose what job you take if you are on jobseekers? I thought you had to take available jobs otherwise they took your benefits away so I’m curious how you can turn down a job and stay on benefits?

    Basically your weekly/fortnightly trip to the jpb center is little more than an exercise in convincing other people that the government is being strict on benefits claimants. They do sod all to help you find a job, you have to do sod all to convince them you’re trying, the only ‘evidence’ you need to produce is a diary that says you applied for a job.

    They ask you have you applied for any jobs. You say yes.

    You ask them if there’s anything thy can do to help because you won’t be able to pay the mortgage next month. They say no.

    You digitally sign a UB40 and get the bus home after buying 4x cups of coffee in gregs to give to the tramps at the station just in case karma is real.

    How would compulsory employment even work, if the army had a recruitment stand on the day you signed on would you have to be conscripted?

    It does seem to work quite well for the locals in the Gulf region though. The standard of service and cleanliness in hotels in Dubai and Qatar is really good, in Doha I remember there was always someone cleaning something, right down to constant dusting of all the hard surfaces in the hotel lobby. Not sure how I feel ethically about it, but it must work for the workers to some extent or they wouldn’t come.

    You should probably feel something ethically about it.

    Poor person is told they’ll earn however much per hour, which seems more than they earn at home. They arrive, are informed that employer provided accommodation will cost most of their wages, the rest is going to be paying off the cost of their air fare for the next decade and their passports* taken off them. It’s slavery.

    *I was given two bits of advice about the middle east, one never go there without two passports, preferably from different countries. Secondly, do not get caught with two passports. I’ve never felt the need to go.

    binners
    Full Member

    I seem to know a lot of people who assume that this is all part of some over arching Tory Masterplan.

    I’m pretty sure that they don’t actually have a clue what the real world implications of their random policy announcements will be, and so they just lurch from one disaster to another.

    They’ve published the blueprint years ago. Written in 2012, it’s basically a step-by-step guide to whats happening now and what the final destinantion is…. The UK as regulation-free Singapore-esque Tax Haven/sweatshop off the shores of Europe. Look who put their names to it as co-authors (they won’t have actually written it, obviously), and look at their present job titles. Have a read of the synopsis an ask yourself if it sounds familiar

    Brittania Unchained

    null

    They’re not ****ing about. They fully intend to use the hardest of hard Brexits to completely re-shape our society and economy, and not for our benefit, that’s for sure. As the policy announcements so far have demonstrated.

    It absolutely staggers me that people generally seem so disinterested and indifferent to what’s happening

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Wow, who’d have thought that they actually meant for this shit show to happen!

    kelvin
    Full Member

    As Milton Friedman once remarked: “Only a crisis – actual or perceived – produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around.”

    …on the floor of Johnson’s car… and pride of place on the shelves of his Vote Leave cabinet ministers.

    mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    Singapore, here we come.

    I wonder who is actually behind the book.

    somafunk
    Full Member

    Its not a book, its so not a genuine and cohesive treatise on modern nation state building and should not be held up as such, it reads more like a pamphlet of disparate ideals padded out with barely literate 6th form psychology.

    I can sum it up in a sentence or rather a collection of soundbites (much like the book itself)

    Lowered taxes, deregulation of the workplace, reduce/remove the welfare state, work harder for less money and less worker regulation/protection, the free market economy will reach equilibrium eventually and it is just a fact that certain elements of society will be left behind.

    It’s 110 pages of utter shite masquearading as a shining beacon of “what could be” if the poor would just shut the **** up and get on with it.

    I know what i would do with the authors involved (and they did write it, or rather they regurgitated the contents of their bile ducts onto the page) but i’ll keep that to myself.

    binners
    Full Member

    Believe me fella, I’m not holding it up as anything other than a frankly terrifying direction of travel. Lets face it, your summary:

    Lowered taxes, deregulation of the workplace, reduce/remove the welfare state, work harder for less money and less worker regulation/protection, the free market economy will reach equilibrium eventually and it is just a fact that certain elements of society will be left behind.

    … is pretty much where we’re headed, isn’t it? Its what Brexit was about right from the off. But to achieve all that they need to be totally ‘free from the shackles of the EU’

    Thats why it will be a hard/no deal/Australian style Brexit… it has to be…. because they want to be rid us of any ties to EU regulation which they consider as an unneccessary restriction on letting them do whatevr the **** they like. And they don’t give a toss what the price to be paid is, because they’re not the ones who’ll be picking up the tab. We will

    And as for what you’d like to do to the authors? I think we’re probably in agreement on that. Mine involves lamposts

    mooman
    Free Member

    singletrackmind

    Member

    Basically all jobs that the entitled English folk who won’t get out of bed for less than £20k as thats what they need to earn to exceed their benefits ( I know this isn;t true , I am generalising /paraphrasing)
    and alot of folk wouldnt do it as its hard graft , long hours , zero prospect jobs , with little or no employee protection ( thanks Brexshiteers ) , cold , outdoors , doesn’t come with a subsidised canteen , unlimited coffee and fag breaks, 5 weeks holidays plus stats , no overtime at time and a half, and all the other nonsense that some people unrealistically expect

    So is your answer to continue to exploit foreigners by paying them the minimum legally allowed wage in this country to do typically the most difficult, and often the most needed, jobs?

    Carers are typically paid the minimum wage, and have poorer work conditions. For example; I can claim 45p a mile to visit my clients … the carers who visit them are only allowed to claim 19p a mile …
    Its a disgrace that carers are described as unskilled worker; it takes great skill to do their job, and a job that I certainly couldnt do.
    Yet we in society are happy to know and allow them to earn minimum wage, whilst expecting them to give a first class and skilled care to our loved ones.
    If care homes are forced increase wages then thats a good thing in my opinion. No doubt there will have to be a different model of funding social care, one where we all pay more for the type of service we demand. Unfortunately there are those that do not want to pay more – so will look at exploiting those from other countries.

Viewing 28 posts - 41 through 68 (of 68 total)

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