Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 171 total)
  • BAA to strike over a measly 1% pay rise..
  • TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Project – the classic thatcherite way of forcing down labour costs – amke sure there is a large pool of impoverished unemployed willing to do any job at any wage.

    Your argument would only hold true if there was full employment thus a free market – at the moment the labour market is rigged in favour of the employers

    DenDennis
    Free Member

    hence unionised workplaces have better compliance with the law

    agreed.

    But these guys are asking for a pay rise, not compliance with agreed laws/salaries etc

    IHN
    Full Member

    Ban strikes in all industries, anyone strikeing gets the sack, and then somebody can either have a new job, or be retrained to do a new job, then the ones who have been sacked may realise that some small gobby bloke who still got paid lost them their job.

    And we're back in the 18th Century…

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    tiger_roach
    Free Member

    Without unions you would be working in unsafe conditions with no holidays nor sick pay and 60 + hr weeks

    No unions in my company…not that I'm anti unions for this sort of stuff just don't think holding your employer to ransom is an appropriate way to behave when after a bit more cash.

    To be fair though, if you earn a hundred grand, 1% is a reasonable rise

    Is it? I mean surely most of us compare our rises to inflation to see how reasonable they are? Or market rate of course….

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Project hysterical nonesens again. there really is a middle way to balance the need of comapnies to be profitable and the need of employees to be paid a reasonable wage and have reasnable working conditions. You may as well advocate slavery and us being grateful our owners feed us. and if we dont work they dont feed us and someone els ewill be grateful for the meal.

    IHN
    Full Member

    they only balloted 40+% (not even half of those who they could).

    They balloted 100%, 40+% responded. There's a big difference.

    CaptJon
    Free Member

    Get rid of old fashioned boards of directors. If they want workers to do their jobs, respect them and pay them well.

    Too many people are of jobs because of poor management decisions. These folk would jump at the chance to work hard for a salary and respect. Yes if you have a few offers you can exploit your position at the expense of other people.

    It is up to the company made up of its workers to decide its pay, not just the directors. Rather have a mutually beneficial system than crap pay and conditions.

    MS
    Free Member

    Yes the unions of the past got better working conditions, sick pay etc. But nowadays can you tell me what they get apart from pushing for a pay rise.

    TJ – HSE, etc are involved now to combat that. You can work a 60 hour week if you want it just cant be imposed by your employer. So again what does the union actually do.

    Employers can't get rid of folk just because there rubbish at their job. Unions should be scrapped. If a company was not paying sufficiently workforce turnover would be high and the company would then realise something would need to be done. Yes eevryone want more money, but kicking up a fuss doesnt work!!!!

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member
    tiger_roach
    Free Member

    They balloted 100%, 40+% responded. There's a big difference.

    Yeah most people abstained – not sure what that means really; maybe not too bothered?

    ahwiles
    Free Member

    when i'm in charge, unions will be welcome, but everytime a union representative speaks in his or her capacity, he or she will have to start and end everything they say with a disclaimer:

    'i'm getting paid £XXX per day while you suckers are on strike … blah blah blah opressive blah blah blah unreasonable blah blah blah we would welcome the chance to negotiate blah blah blah … i'm getting paid £XXX per day while you suckers are on strike'

    gits.

    IHN
    Full Member

    Yeah most people abstained – not sure what that means really; maybe not too bothered?

    Exactly, so they therefore have to go along with the decision made by those that could be bothered to vote.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Employers can't get rid of folk just because there rubbish at their job

    Wrong – its easy to do so – I have as an employer

    You need to look at the functions of a union – representing individuals who need help – prevent abuse from employers and so on, ensuring compliance with the laws and taking employers to task when they don't.

    You can tell what a sheltered bunch of white collar workers there are on here

    Unions have a very important function in preventing employer abuse.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    ahwiles – Member

    when i'm in charge, unions will be welcome, but everytime a union representative……….

    Ignorance again – union reps are not paid, full time officials are as they are employees of the union not the emplyer

    skiprat
    Free Member

    BAA wants to wind itself up, re-open and put them all on new contracts with their new pay structure there.

    I am due to fly out to the US on the 25th, 2 days after the day they are planning to start striking. We're flying Virgin but will be in trouble as we're going from Heathrow. Its our belated honeymoon so i'm sorry if all this sounds a bit harsh but they should in these times, be glad they have a job to go to. My wife a nurse and they are having a pay freeze.

    Perhaps when a BAA member of staff needs a trip to the hospital, they should remember my wife will still be there looking after them and making sure they are ok as she has a duty of care to look after them, even without a payrise.

    If it were me, i'd tell them i was on strike, sit down at the side of the bed, read their books, eat their grapes*, drink their lucazade and let them bleed!!!

    *grapes the fruit not piles.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    they did not abstain that requires a vote with no cross placed on it they did not vote at all..
    You can read into it what you want but I think everyone will agree that voting [except for reality tv shows] is in decline on most issues and this is a bad thing. as your statement of fact shows.

    Yeah most people abstained – not sure what that means really; maybe not too bothered?

    Exactly, so they therefore have to go along with the decision made by those that could be bothered to vote.

    We cannot say how they would have voted but they did have the chance ot express an opinion if they wished to.

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    I'm personally happy that I have a job.

    You're a fat cat's dream hora (and no, not in the way you’re thinking)

    RepacK
    Free Member

    As I understand the numbers – the actual total who voted for the strike is about 1/3 of the workforce..Apathy rules ok yeah?

    tiger_roach
    Free Member

    Unions have a very important function in preventing employer abuse.

    Trouble is there does seem to be a them'n'us culture in some companies rather than one where employees discuss and try to agree. I wouldn't want to work in a company where there are 2 sides in the same organization looking to fight each other – aren't we all in the same team really?

    I suppose the problem is that low-skilled people are easily replaced and so they don't have much power unless they gang up against the management to get what they want. So glad I'm not part of all that really.

    ahwiles
    Free Member

    TandemJeremy – Member

    ahwiles –

    Ignorance again

    apologies.

    i stand by my point though, the people driving the strike are not feeling the same pinch as the people they represent. they're still gits.

    (i'm doing some homework on Andy Gilchrist – he's put me in a bad mood)

    BigDummy
    Free Member

    Aren't they demanding a 1% payrise, and a bonus that they would have been entitled to if BAA had made slightly more money?

    Can't say I'm wildly sympathetic, but there we are. I absolutely support the use of collective bargaining by labour over pay and conditions.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    tiger – you get the point. Ta

    Clearly not exhausted!

    MS
    Free Member

    No unions in my industry and it works well.

    Maybe going back to the dark agaes but if you go on strike you should be sacked. If you want more pay look for another job. If your boss says no pay rise then its up to you if you want to leave.

    skiprat you are spot on. So should all NHS folk strike cos they are not getting a pay rise???? You shoudl not be able to demand a pay rise unless you have a few offers on the table.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    your point being you hate unions and dont need facts to help you form this opinion. Excellent ahwiles …even whn you are wrong you are right eh

    IHN
    Full Member

    So should all NHS folk strike cos they are not getting a pay rise????

    They're not getting a rise because their employer (the Government) is running at a massive loss. I think it's perfectly reasonable that an employer who is losing money should use every means at their disposal to reverse that situation.

    However, I object to situations where increases in profits and dividends massively outweigh increases in pay to the people who created those profits.

    tiger_roach
    Free Member

    tiger – you get the point. Ta

    Well I do but unfortunately I'm not completely sympathetic – not when it comes to pay rises in economic bad times anyway.

    bruneep
    Full Member

    (i'm doing some homework on Andy Gilchrist – he's put me in a bad mood)

    Don't start me off about him. 🙁

    barnsleymitch
    Free Member

    "They're not getting a rise because their employer (the Government) is running at a massive loss. I think it's perfectly reasonable that an employer who is losing money should use every means at their disposal to reverse that situation."
    As long as they continue to be selective in choosing their targets though eh?

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    MS

    our industry is hardly "typical" if you went on strike there are plenty of folk to fill your boots as its hardly bottom of the pay ladder relitive to effort put in ….

    ahwiles
    Free Member

    Junkyard – Member

    your point being you hate unions and dont need facts to help you form this opinion. Excellent ahwiles …even whn you are wrong you are right eh

    not quite, i used the word 'representative' when i meant 'full time official'

    i'm probably very lucky, but during my short life, unions have only ever caused me inconvenience, and asked me for money while they do so.

    FG
    Free Member

    They're not getting a rise because their employer (the Government) is running at a massive loss. I think it's perfectly reasonable that an employer who is losing money should use every means at their disposal to reverse that situation.

    Just be glad Unite aren't a public sector union – BAA are running at a loss too. Maybe the groundstaff would be happier if BAA went bust because of giving out a pay rise and they all lost their jobs?

    pk-ripper
    Free Member

    Ms +1

    If those people at baa had ordinary jobs that did not affect the economy and public at large, would they go on strike or seek to leave for another company or position.

    It's holding the nation at large to ransom due to petty greed.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Yes the unions of the past got better working conditions, sick pay etc. But nowadays can you tell me what they get apart from pushing for a pay rise.

    plenty of stats on this go google
    Equal pay claims, compenmsation claims against employers
    staff in unionised workplaces generally get more pay and more paid holidays than those in non-unionised workplaces. Unionised workers are less likely to lose their jobs than those in non-unionised workplaces. If this does happen, they receive better compensation.

    How about anecdote if you prefer. Who gets treated best Nike [and many other companies] European employees or non unionsied Nike empoyees in the far east? Claiming we dont need them is like claimng we dont need the police because we have courts and laws now.

    hora
    Free Member

    When I saw the news with the Union leader talking about how BA had let people down I did honestly look at the table near me and consider hitting my head against it to make the pain of listening (and trying to decipher) his logic go away.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    ahwilles full time officials dont directly represent memebers initially the stewards do.They support stewrads generally not members.Stewards [unpaid and elected] represent at disciplinaries and at wage negotiations etc. Paid officaials are only ever used when a legal dispute or a major issue arises int he workplace.
    As the union official gets paid whether the workers strike or not [and the later is more work for them] why exactly would they prefer a strike? Everyone knows this is in in no ones best interest.
    Would you make management declare how much profit they make over and above what they pay workers beofre they speak?
    " I pay you 6 per housr but make £12 poer hour from your work blah blah blah?
    Extreme one sided views help no one and engender conflict.

    project
    Free Member

    Can the unemployed strike because they want a job, or more money, NO, THEY GO AND LOOK FOR ANOTHER JOB OR RETRAIN,

    Who pays these union blokes, the workers, so that makes the workers feel as if they are getting good information, instead of realising they are being paid to work, and the boss is paying them not the union bloke who is saying stop work lads, and ask for more money, and see the company fail.
    Then youll all be out of jobs.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    When I saw the news with the Union leader talking about how BA had let people down I did honestly look at the table near me and consider hitting my head against it to make the pain of listening (and trying to decipher) his logic go away.

    Perhaps it will improve your hearing by knocking the dust out of your ears?

    hora
    Free Member

    I wouldn't fly or book a BA flight just on the off chance there is a future strike or even talk of ballot action.

    Its hard enough grinding away and then saving your money for a holiday only to worry if you will actually fly out.

    I bet there are a fair few people out there who based their decision on carriers etc on this as well.

    When the company is eventually broken up with wholesale redundancies and salary adjustment inline with the rest of the industry those who partook in this debacle will be well on their way to their pensions anyway feeling smug they fought 'for their right'.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    As I said earlier I don't know enough about the background on this specific dispute to knw how much merit it has.

    As for what unions can do for you I give tWo examples
    I was the person helped in this one. As a direct part of some work I was doing I was called to a court as a witness. My employer refused to pay me despite the fact I was there is my professional capacity. I asked my union rep to intervene as I was getting nowhere on my own. he was able to get to the person who was able to make the decision and got it reversed. Worth around £100 to me. I might have been able to get it on my own but it would have been a lot harder.

    A colleague when I was a rep worked a set pattern of shifts and had done for years. she had arranged complex childcare arrangements to make this work for her. The employer wanted to change her to work random shifts on two weeks notice. She was not able to do this and would have had to resign. I argued her case as a grievance and got her position protected. She was able to continue to work. She was not assertive and articulate to do this on her own.

    An employer wanted to change shift patterns much to the detriment of staff ( to timings that would be illegal now) The staff collectively said no and the union took that answer to the management. The management realised that the vast majority of the workforce would refuse the changes and the changes were dropped. collective bargaining at work.

    In the latter one there was a forum for union / management discussions every month in a co operative manner – this was raised at that and never came to a dispute as a result.

    MS
    Free Member

    trail_rat

    But that is what I am saying, there are plenty of people wanting jobs that cant get them so if you go on strike you should face the consequences! If we went on strike we would eb replaced so why shouldn't it work like that for the like s of BAA etc

    Yes the oil indusry is stlightly different as the pay is much higher than most jobs of similar skill level.

    Maybe I am still to young to experience this love for unions but to me you get paid what the company sets and if your not happy you should leave!

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 171 total)

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