Average speed cameras work. Are they even on ?

dazh – Member

Err, just relax and drive a bit slower? If you have to be somewhere at a certain time, leave a bit earlier (only a bit, cos we all know driving fast doesn’t save you much time anyway)?

I said that “The whole point of driving is to get from A to B quickly”.
You disagreed.
Going to offer up an alternative view?
You’ve had plenty of time.

hora – Member

lose arms

Steer with your knees?
🙂

ahwiles – Member

possibly, the worst idea i’ve ever heard.

Would you care to expand on that?
I’m not saying it’s a good idea but I think you have probably misunderstood what advanced driving is about.

hora – Member

The one thing that I will leave you with. Never ever panic.

The one instruction my friend got (possibly learning to drive in the army) was “If you’re going to crash, do it as slowly as possible”.
😆

sbob – Member

And it’s cheap too.
Institite of Advanced Motorists

Go on, give it a click. Chances are you’ll be able to find a group close to you and more often than not you’ll be able to go out with an observer for no greater cost than your petrol for an initial assessment of your driving.

With so many lambasting the driving of others, it’s great to see the number of comments and questions from those posters regarding the above. 🙂

Oh.
🙁

speeds will come down to legal levels, for more drivers for a couple of reasons

more and more company vehicles are being fitted with trackers which flag up speeding,agressive cornering and braking

younger drivers have the choice of forking out several grand to be insured or have a black box fitted and instead parting with several hundred instead

As for the average cameras a friends colleague got banned after driving through the M5/M4 interchange

sbob – Member

sbob – Member

And it’s cheap too.
Institite of Advanced Motorists

Go on, give it a click. Chances are you’ll be able to find a group close to you and more often than not you’ll be able to go out with an observer for no greater cost than your petrol for an initial assessment of your driving.

With so many lambasting the driving of others, it’s great to see the number of comments and questions from those posters regarding the above.

Oh.

Agree, I’ve done the full course and the first assessment was free. Seems too many people on here who want to tell everyone else what they can and can’t do on the road yet turn their noses up at doing some further training to actually improve their own driving. Crazy!

Watch it with that brush, you’re getting tar on me.

I’ve considered IAM or a.n.other course for years, but never really got around to it. I checked out sbob’s links, and it seems there’s a course starting near me next month. Funds permitting I might give it a go.

(Does the ‘s’ stand for ‘silent’?)

Idiots are easy to spot

No they’re not. Not until their phone rings, or they need to change album on their iPod or something.

All this guff about driver training and car handling is total bollocks. Testosterone fulled alpha male bollocks.

I’m willing to bet most accidents are not caused by lack of car handling skills. Taking stupid gambles, reckless overtaking, not concentrating I think would rank much more highly.

I’m willing to bet most accidents are not caused by lack of car handling skills. Taking stupid gambles, reckless overtaking, not concentrating I think would rank much more highly.

I’d be willing to wager a few bob that the ‘not concentrating’ contributes far more than the ‘stupid gambles, reckless overtaking’ does to the figures. In a perfect world we wouldn’t need set speed limits, we could just have a crime of ‘too fast for the given situation’. But that would be hard to set up a camera for…

molgrips – Member

All this guff about driver training and car handling is total bollocks. Testosterone fulled alpha male bollocks.

Firstly, I haven’t mentioned car handling when talking about driver training.
Secondly, your mention of testosterone and the fact that you think it is “total bollocks” shows that you know nothing about the subject, and the fact that insurers will often offer discounts to IAM members proves that you are wrong.

Do yourself (and everyone else) a favour; get some training.

All this guff about driver training and car handling is total bollocks. Testosterone fulled alpha male bollocks.

Clearly spoken by someone who actually knows very little about driving. Empty vessels make the most noise and all that . . . .

How ironical.

I’d be willing to wager a few bob that the ‘not concentrating’ contributes far more

+1, you beat me to it.

All this guff about driver training and car handling is total bollocks.

Molly, I like you, and you usually talk a lot of sense (often in the face of strong opposition). And I applaud you for that. But you’re wrong on this one.

Driver training – any training – doesn’t give you the right to then go acting like a tool because you’re “better” than everyone else. And good training will teach you this.

It’s the same argument with self defence classes. Do people go and sign up to kung fu classes and then go around battering everyone? Of course not; they get taught first and foremost how to avoid confrontation in the first place. Sure, there will be exceptions, every demographic has its asshats, but they will be a minority.

I don’t really understand how you think that learning to be better at something will make you worse at it.

Clearly spoken by someone who actually knows very little about driving. Empty vessels make the most noise and all that

Lolz.

But this time, you’re simply wrong I’m afraid.

Driver training – any training – doesn’t give you the right to then go acting like a tool because you’re “better” than everyone else. And good training will teach you this.

Ok I should clarify. I meant the surf-mat school of driver training ie ‘I’ve done the police course now I can go as fast as I like’. Training drivers to be safe, aware and responsible is indeed extremely valuable as you say.

It’s a shame hardly anyone does it 🙁

Thing is, and I’m just guessing, anyone who goes and gets advanced training was probably at the less likely end of causing an accident in the first place.

Ok I should clarify. I meant the surf-mat school of driver training ie ‘I’ve done the police course now I can go as fast as I like’. Training drivers to be safe, aware and responsible is indeed extremely valuable as you say.

It’s a shame hardly anyone does it

Right with you up until that last sentence.

DD > you’re probably right. The ones who are already AWSUM! won’t believe they need any training. I’ve posted pictures before now of what happened to the last one of those I encountered.

Ok I should clarify. I meant the surf-mat school of driver training ie ‘I’ve done the police course now I can go as fast as I like’. Training drivers to be safe, aware and responsible is indeed extremely valuable as you say.

It’s a shame hardly anyone does it

Mol, sorry for being quick to have a go but I thought you were just being dismissive of all driver training.

There’s quite a few people who do it – the IAM for starters. I also did a course with High Performance Club[/url] which was very insightful and a bit more focused for those that want to drive fast but safely than the AIM course. These are geared toward road rather than track driving.

I’m never going to say I don’t break the speed limit – I do, often and intensionaly when the roads are quiet. It’s just that if I’m going to be doing it then I wanted to do it with as much training and knowledge as I could get to make things far safer for all concerned.

Completely different attitude I think to a boy racer (and I used to be one) who just drives everywhere at max speed, but with very little talent or margin for error, pi**ing everyone else off in the progress.

The courses have taught me a lot but most of all that despite doing the courses, I still have so much more to learn.

Right with you up until that last sentence.

?

How many people do that kind of training?

molgrips – do you reckon my NIP for 57 in a 50 on a road safe at 70 makes me a boy racer? Was I going that fast because I’m a testosterone fuelled alpha male reckoning I can drive fast because I’m awsum?

I agree with most of your post rebel12 but I question the emphasis on talent. Surely the trick is to not put yourself in a situation where you need ‘talent’?

I have no idea how hard I can corner in either of my cars – I can’t see how I need to know?

molgrips – do you reckon my NIP for 57 in a 50 on a road safe at 70 makes me a boy racer? Was I going that fast because I’m a testosterone fuelled alpha male reckoning I can drive fast because I’m awsum?

I have no idea.

molgrips – Member

I have no idea how hard I can corner in either of my cars – I can’t see how I need to know?

When you have done all you can to avoid evasive maneuvers but some unforeseeable turn of events means you might have to resort to them, it is very useful to already know how the car will behave at or beyond the limit.

I know how it performs under hard braking and swerving. Just not cornering. I also know how it corners and stops on snow, cos I’ve tried all those things so that I do know the limits.

However I can’t imagine a scenario where knowing the cornering limits would be advantageous.

molgrips – Member

I know how it performs under hard braking and swerving. Just not cornering.

Swerving is cornering. 🙂

I have no idea.

But I thought all speeding was dangerous?

I agree with most of your post rebel12 but I question the emphasis on talent. Surely the trick is to not put yourself in a situation where you need ‘talent’?

I have no idea how hard I can corner in either of my cars – I can’t see how I need to know?

No you’re right, most people will never get near the limits of their cars (and it’s probably not a good idea to go too close to them) on a public road. But if you’re going to be driving fast, in bad weather conditions, or driving a twitchy RWD car then it helps to know how your car handles on the limit – to recognise when you’re close to it so you can slow down before it’s too late. I didn’t realise this as a teenager and lost the back end of my car several times on wet roundabouts, spinning full 360’s, luckily with no damage to anything. If I’d have had more talent at the time (rather than blind bravery/stupidity) then I’d probably have been able to recognise that I was driving way too fast for the conditions or done something to correct the slide before it became a problem. Maybe talent was the wrong choice of word – knowledge and experience might be more appropriate.

But if you’re going to be driving fast

Er yeah the whole point of this discussion is that you really ought not to be.

Maybe talent was the wrong choice of word – knowledge and experience might be more appropriate.

Spot on.

How many people do that kind of training?

Ah right – I misunderstood what you meant, apologies. Ignore that.

molgrips – Member

But if you’re going to be driving fast

Er yeah the whole point of this discussion is that you really ought not to be.

Err, I know but like I’ve said I do often exceed the speed limit. I enjoy driving and enjoy driving quickly. I’m not talking about racing or acting like a dick, but making smooth and fast progress in a car I enjoy driving and when conditions allow with good observation plus consideration and respect for other road users.

Generally I’ll drive to whatever is appropriate for the conditions rather that what the posted speed limit is. Sometimes that’s way under the speed limit, sometimes quite a bit over.

I’ve tried driving more slowly but I’m afraid to be honest I really struggle not to drive quickly sometimes. So I though I may as well increase my skill base to make the margin of safety that bit better.

Good observation and applying some common sense to where I drive quickly is probably why I’ve still got a clean license (touch wood).

most people will never get near the limits of their cars (and it’s probably not a good idea to go too close to them)

In modern cars, that’s certainly true. If you’re driving on the road in a manner that’s exceeded the limits of ABS, ESP, WTF and so on, your problem isn’t knowing the cars limits.

My first car was of 1977 vintage. Second 1985. Knowing the limits of those vehicles was important because there was a very real chance that you could exceed them without trying particularly hard. I taught myself how to handle skids on a rainy Toys ‘R’ Us car park late one night; at the time I was tooling about, but in hindsight it’s served me well in terms of maintaining control and not panicking when things do go wrong.

Thinking about it, I’d go as far as to say that now, with a modern car, I’ve got so complacent (and so out of practice) that 40 year old me would probably make a fist out of a loss-of-control situation that 25 year old me wouldn’t have blinked at. Maybe as well as IAM, I should look at booking a skidpan session.

I too enjoy ‘brisk’ driving, but it’s way way within the limits of the car and to be honest now I have a Passat it’s just too wide for me to feel comfortable on country roads. I like the road to flow, I don’t like to push anything. It’s all about relaxed progress.

When the road straightens out I stay at 60. There’s just no need to go any faster, and the fun’s gone without the corners.

Anyway – never mind present company. People cannot be trusted to make their own judgments about appropriate speed. Or stopping distance, or levels of attention…

Thing is, and I’m just guessing, anyone who goes and gets advanced training was probably at the less likely end of causing an accident in the first place.

i know a few people who’ve done the IAM thing, every one of then has done it to help/massage their insurance after picking up a few blemishes on their license…

(the course did seem to calm then down a bit as a side effect)

Fair comment ahwiles. As I said, I was only thinking aloud really.

molgrips – Member

Anyway – never mind present company. People cannot be trusted to make their own judgments about appropriate speed. Or stopping distance, or levels of attention

With the right education (I believe) they can.
Take away the need for people to think for themselves and they will, however, stop thinking for themselves.
That’s ok if you can think for them, but unfortunately nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool, so I’d rather we strived towards the former.

Like so many things in life, education is the bottom line!

. But if you’re going to be driving fast, in bad weather conditions, or driving a twitchy RWD car then it helps to know how your car handles on the limit – to recognise when you’re close to it so you can slow down before it’s too late.

Yeah, you sound like a really safe driver. I really hope you never drive anywhere near where my kids ride their bikes. How about, you don’t drive close enough to the limit that you need to slow down, or take it to the track?

Yeah, you sound like a really safe driver. I really hope you never drive anywhere near where my kids ride their bikes. How about, you don’t drive close enough to the limit that you need to slow down, or take it to the track?

No chance of driving near your kids I’m afraid – I try and avoid driving through council estates if possible 😉

Careful now.

edlong – Member

How about, you don’t drive close enough to the limit that you need to slow down

Where is the limit, and how do you know where it is?