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Just a gentle reminder to keep it civil, people. It’s a discussion, not a Who Can Be The Most Right competition.
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I think that the much improved safety of the modern car, improved road design, a harder driving test plus theory and the fact that many of the youngsters are now priced of the road by huge insurance costs have much more to do with the reduction in casualties over the last 10-15 years rather than the introduction of Scameras.

occassionally I will drift over if its quiet. good conditions etc.

loon

Cougar – Moderator

<mod>
Just a gentle reminder to keep it civil

Difficult in the face of such obvious trolling, but I’ll do my best. 🙂

An average speed camera network wouldn’t catch occasional speeding.

But it’d mean you’d have to drop well below the speed limit to average that stretch out between cam’s (if you see what I mean?). If they are interlinked you’ve then got a high chance of getting it wrong whereas on the motorway if you did a spurt at 60 in a 50, before the second cam you’d drop to say 40.

rebel12 – Member
Right or wrong, we all need to get used to it.

it, and speed cameras.

Ps. I’ve zip against speed camera’s. If you can’t spot one then you also can’t spot crucial safety boards/signs in urban areas. Clarkson et al’s childish grandstanding against them was counter-productive and not required IMO.

Whatever the law says life is just like that I’m afraid.

This sounds very much like a ‘Sod you all, I’m going to do what I want and I don’t care about the consequences’ statement that I was talking about earlier. Is it?

Scameras.

whoop whoop, we now have the full complement of speed related clichés well done NS and all the others who made this possible.

dazh – Member

To be honest I’ve no idea what you’re arguing about any more.

That’s an obvious lie but I accept you’ve run out of troll feed and are probably starting to get weak.

Have you an actual point to make about the rights/wrongs of speed limits and who they apply to?

I have many points to make, why are you trying to steer me towards that particular topic?
If you want to keep things on topic, then the title was
“Average speed cameras work. Are they even on?”
to which the answer is yes. Case closed you can go now.

If you’d like to enlighten us without the willy waving I’m all ears.

What willy waving? You’re obviously not all ears as you have chosen to repeatedly ignore what I have actually written in your quest to troll.

My initial points were (as you’re pretending to be interested) that people need to take responsibility for themselves, and not be nannyed by the state, and that prevention is better than cure.

I appreciate responsibility of self is probably not going to go down too well in a forum populated by mainly communists those of a left persuasion. 🙂

I appreciate responsibility of self is probably not going to go down too well in a forum populated by mainly communists those of a left persuasion.

Spongetroll alert!!

Wow … 13 pages !!

Normal only us religious/non-religious bores get that far

Hope you’re all having fun 😀

my acceptance of speed limits makes me a communist?

okay…

(but i do read the grauniad, grow a beard, and work for a university, so i know i’m on thin ice)

The thread seems to have strayed into cross arguing and nitpicking about exactly what each others argument is.

It’s blatant common sense…

be very wary of starting any post with this line dazh, even if the rest of the post is rock solid this is a bad opener. Plus as we’re already discussed joe public is common sense deficient.

sbob I don’t think anyone is saying IAM drivers are all mental but there does appear to be a fair few internet arguers who say they speed and attempt to justify it with their IAM credentials, I’m sure not all IAMers are like that and obviously more driver training is a good thing, just got a bit of a reputation round here.
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I appreciate responsibility of self is probably not going to go down too well in a forum populated by mainly communists those of a left persuasion.

but you lose credibility with that one

sbob, you obviously seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you on an internet forum is a troll. Whilst I may disagree with you, I can assure you I’m no troll. You may want to look up the definition.

Another feature of internet forums is that debate often very quickly evolves to cover subjects wider than the OP (Indeed STW is notorious for it!). I think we’d all agree this has happened in this case (ignoring the pedantic sillyness).

You say you have lots of points to make about speed limits and how they should be applied. Lets have them!

back on track albeit at a tangent, what was the justification for publicising camera locations? The cameras on our local 50mph DC are a PITA frankly with the oh so predictable usual cruising speed of 60-80mph, slam on for the camera, accelerate hard back to original speed and repeat for the next 2 sets from a significant proportion of road users. Wouldn’t having mobile cameras in undisclosed locations be more likely to get people to drive under the limit more of the time?

be very wary of starting any post with this line dazh, even if the rest of the post is rock solid this is a bad opener.

Agreed. However in this case I truly believe it to be the case, so had no qualms in using it.

but you lose credibility with that one

My apologies, I missed out the smiley.
I was simply trying to insert some gentle humourous rib-poking in a thread that was getting quite heated.

Honest. 😀

The cameras on our local 50mph DC are a PITA frankly with the oh so predictable usual cruising speed of 60-80mph, slam on for the camera, accelerate hard back to original speed and repeat for the next 2 sets from a significant proportion of road users.

A superb example of where average speed cameras would be beneficial?

I depends what you think the cameras are for. If you take it that they are designed to reduce accidents at those specific locations then letting everyone know where they are makes some sense as everyone will slow down, not just the observant. Of course, this goes against the pre-conceptions of those who think they are solely deigned to raise revenue.

A superb example of where average speed cameras would be beneficial?

possibility, the police occasionally take it upon themselves to bung a mobile one after the three static ones, bizarrely this is deemed unfair by those caught.

designed to reduce accidents at those specific locations then letting everyone know where they are makes some sense as everyone will slow down, not just the observant

I see the point about accident black spots, tho the unobservant will miss the camera signs aswell and no doubt complain when they get a fine, fair enough, but if it’s widely publicised that unmarked mobile cameras are used (i don’t think anyone in the UK hasn’t heard of speed limits and cameras) and they are used on roads with well signed limits what’s the problem?

dazh – Member

The cameras on our local 50mph DC are a PITA frankly with the oh so predictable usual cruising speed of 60-80mph, slam on for the camera, accelerate hard back to original speed and repeat for the next 2 sets from a significant proportion of road users.

A superb example of where average speed cameras would be beneficial?

Or perhaps a superb example of where drivers quite happily and safely do 60-80mph day after day without incident yet the local safety camera partnership felt the need to top up the coffers in the misguided name of ‘speed kills’? Shame so many clueless people buy in to this.

in an attempt to push things forward positively…

lots of modern cars are fitted with GPS devices.

i’m guessing it’s not beyond the limits of our technology to track/save data.

how long before insurance companies/the feds are using this information in crash/death cases

or has it already happened?

The problem is that folk know the likelihood of them getting caught for speeding is almost infinitesimal and so they’ll sail through those blackspots without a second thought.

speed cameras are a tax on stupidity and as such ace. I do love the i’m an advanced driver so the law does not apply to me line of argument surely an advanced driving course would teach you how to read the speedo on a car dash board ?

Some insurance companies will give a discount for vehicles with those fitted. I guess it’s enough of a consideration that folk drive slower when they know they are being tracked. I imagine that the fine print includes some wording to indicate that the data will be used in the event of any accident.

FWIW, I’d make GPS logging and front/rear cameras compulsory on all vehicles. It’s a shame we’ve never had a government that had the drive to make a serious impact on the 2,000 road deaths / 20,000+ serious injuries every year.

or has it already happened?

If I recall correctly the last time doing anything like this was suggested all the motorists were up in arms about their human rights and freedom of movement*, and big brother etc.

*Of course what they really meant was their freedom to break the speed limit.

I do love the i’m an advanced driver so the law does not apply to me line of argument

I’ve not said this. I’ve said that as I frequently drive above the speed limit, I though that some extra training (including IAM) would be beneficial and make me much safer doing this. A big difference and I do appreciate that this is technically outside of the law.

Or perhaps a superb example of where drivers quite happily and safely do 60-80mph day after day without incident yet the local safety camera partnership felt the need to top up the coffers in the misguided name of ‘speed kills’? Shame so many clueless people buy in to this.

You’re right. Just like climate change, it’s a left-wing conspiracy to make the world a better place 🙂

Or perhaps a superb example of…blah blah blah

[url=http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/archive/2002/02/13/Lancashire+Archive/5985755.No_longer_the_Devil_s_highway/] Major changes included reducing the speed limit from 70mph to 50mph, installing speed cameras, reducing on-slip roads to single lanes and improving safety fencing as well as banning cyclists from the route.

Delighted council officials have revealed that after two years accidents have reduced by 60pc and injuries have fallen by 66pc.[/url] A666 had pretty bad safety record beforehand AFAIK – dunno wasn’t driving myself then so didn’t take much note

This is true. I’ve had advanced training and was surprised at how much quicker I was able to make safe progress.

in the misguided name of ‘speed kills’? Shame so many clueless people buy in to this.

Can you show where this slogan has been used in this country in recent years?

Average speed cameras across all the road network I say, and unmarked speed traps. They have unmarked traps in western Australia and the driving there is much better than here.

A9 needs average speed cameras all the way anyway, its a racetrack/deathtrack.

dazh – Member

sbob, you obviously seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you on an internet forum is a troll.

No, I think you’re a troll for the reasons I listed earlier, pretending I said things I didn’t, et cetera.
Page 13, just under halfway down. It’s black and white.

Another feature of internet forums is that debate often very quickly evolves to cover subjects wider than the OP (Indeed STW is notorious for it!). I think we’d all agree this has happened in this case (ignoring the pedantic sillyness).

Yet you try and dictate what subject we actually discuss? 😕

You say you have lots of points to make about speed limits and how they should be applied. Lets have them!

You’ve done it again! Not only steering the topic of conversation but suggesting I’ve said something I haven’t.

Why would you do that if you weren’t trolling?
I hardly think you’re dim enough to not realise you’re doing it.

I do appreciate that this is technically outside of the law.

Well, there’s no “technically” about it, it is.

Can you show where this slogan has been used in this country in recent years?

Given how everybody recognises it so much that it keeps getting brought out on threads like this without most people objecting, I reckon whether or not it’s been used actively in recent years is irrelevant – the damage has been done.

dazh – Member

A superb example of where average no speed cameras would be beneficial?

Unfortunately this also works.

Given how everybody recognises it so much that it keeps getting brought out on threads like this without most people objecting, I reckon whether or not it’s been used actively in recent years is irrelevant – the damage has been done.

You can “reckon” all you want. The folk I have read using it are the ones who are anxious to prefix it with “inappropriate”.