Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)
  • avalanche kit
  • jedi
    Full Member

    i’m looking at buying safety gear. what do peopel recommend?
    abs back pack? what transciever? etc..
    cheers doods

    jimmy
    Full Member

    Not sure specific recommendations but I believe http://www.blue-tomato.com/en-GB/ do good deals. I’m in the market myself. Kinda.

    perchypanther
    Free Member

    ‘s James Bond Avalanche Jacket, innit.

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

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    footflaps
    Full Member

    Avalanche transceiver for everyone in group

    At least two sets of Shovel & Probe between the group (as no use if one person with all the gear is buried).

    Training course on Rouche block tests…

    gravity-slave
    Free Member

    Don’t forget training and practice, avoidance is greater than kit and kit is useless without training. This course was great – eye opening and invaluable.

    http://avalancheacademy.com/

    Read ‘about’ Stuart, very experienced and then check the ‘equipment’ page for tips.

    Ortovox 3+, economic 240 probe and metal beast shovel will hopefully never be used in emergency. Shovel good for kickers though!

    jedi
    Full Member

    obviously we’re doing a course when i get out there

    Stoatsbrother
    Free Member

    Way more than footflaps suggests. Probe and shovel for everyone. Heliski operators might go lead and tailgunner only, the rest of us shouldn’t.
    The block tests ain’t all that. Tell you historic info about the spot you’re on, no more. Only an expert who knows the hills history will be able to make much of them in other contexts

    +1 for Gravity-slaves recommendation as a good minimum.

    I use one of the older compressed air snowpulse bags if I am out the back. Very comfy. And an Ortovox S1. I do like the Mammut pulse transceiver though.

    Some good package deals on Sport Conrad, often via Snow Shepherd, or via Lockwoods if you are a SCGB member.

    Most important however is training, attitude and dropping the macho crap.

    Read “snow sense” a cracking thin book by people who know.

    shifter
    Free Member

    I got a good deal on a Ortovox 3+, shovel & probe from Gravity Protection, although now’s probably not the best time of year for bargains!

    Gotama
    Free Member

    Great book to read before your course. Very easy to read.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Free-Skiing-How-Adapt-Mountain/dp/9163313138

    That said we always used to split the cost of a local guide between us when going properly off piste. So many variables to consider.

    gravity-slave
    Free Member

    Wasn’t obvious but good to hear.

    I’ve seen guides slap kit on people with no idea how to use it and head off all too often.

    At least two sets of Shovel & Probe between the group (as no use if one person with all the gear is buried).

    How do you decide who doesn’t get buried, or deal with multiples where?
    Party of 4, 2 burials, better hope it’s not the folk with the probes.
    Kit for everyone.

    dashed
    Free Member

    +1 for stoatsbrother…

    Sensible post. I’ve got an Ortovox 3+ very easy to use but you need to practice/ training / practice / training. And some more training! Scary vid of someone in PDS getting avalanched without transceiver and they only find him as his pole is sticking out of the snow. The GoPro footage from his mate trying to dig him out makes your blood run cold. The level of panic, dropping gloves, frozen fingers, fumbling with shovels etc is a significant factor that most people forget about. You need to almost instinctive with probe / transceiver to be able to function under the unbelievable level of stress that digging out a friend / loved one will bring!

    Oh, and a shovel / probe each. The above example took >1 hr to dig someone out even though they’d exposed his head – even with the help of the pisteurs!

    Edit – link to vid https://youtu.be/bOnBRguDZ1I
    Link below vid to full write up…

    qwertyuiop7
    Free Member

    “Stoatsbrother” couldn’t have said it better myself 🙂

    Only thing i will add is The Whiteroom Chalet (the guys that do the mountain bike weeks in the Tarantaise) do a fantastic Backcountry week with 2 of the Alps best guides. Safety equipment hire and training is included in the price.

    philholmes
    Free Member

    This site is pretty good value for kit, it is where I got all of my kit from.

    https://www.sport-bittl.com/en/

    It lets you build you set up from all the different shovels / probes / beacons.

    I have not bothered with the abs bag yet, I kinda know I should, but the initial outlay is pretty high.

    gravity-slave
    Free Member

    The level of panic, dropping gloves, frozen fingers, fumbling with shovels etc is a significant factor

    We were doing this during role play just looking for a buried rucksack against the clock! Stress was high, everyone yelling and panicking. Awesome exercise, worth practising. Just don’t forget to check the transceiver before burying it 😉

    jedi
    Full Member

    cheers for the link philholmes. just bought two sets of probe/shovel and beacon 🙂

    catvet
    Free Member

    Have a look at. Facewest site. They usually have a resume of kit, light and strong, don’t by plastic shovel, transiever newer 3 channel one are better, but the best one is the one you know how to use!
    Even better is go on a mountain awareness course and try to avoid the terrain that is dangerous
    There are some excellent articles on Neil McNabs snowboarding site, he is one of the few high mountain and glacier, snowboard, ski and mountain climbing guides, a most excellent and charismatic tutor.

    jedi
    Full Member

    guys it was kit recommendations i wanted. we’re getting a course in chamonix

    Rio
    Full Member

    Orthodox 3+ – various deals around at the moment. Probe – I use a Black Diamond carbon one but the alloy ones are fine. Metal shovel – I use a Black Diamond one but as long as it’s metal it’ll be ok. Rucksack for the shovel and probe, ideally one that’s designed to carry them so that you don’t have to unpack everything at a critical time. I use an ABS pack but there’s a shift in technology going on at the moment so it would be an interesting time to invest in one. Mine’s a gas cylinder one but the new electric ones seem to have a number of advantages, not least less hassle on planes. All of your party needs the transceiver, shovel and probe!

    lemonysam
    Free Member

    Have a look at. Facewest site.

    I used to work for Facewest and I’d totally back this up. It may look daft when Stu films his transceiver testing vids in a carpark in guiseley but he knows his stuff* and would never bullshit people to get them to spend more money. There’s lots of products they don’t consider good enough to sell and they’ll happily tell you why. Give them a call and speak to Stu or Jake and you’ll get really good advice.

    *and uses all this gear

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    For me (!) I decided an ABS pack was beyond what I need for now.

    Would definitely be nice to have, but realistically I’m not getting much more than a few days off piste a year and it tends to be fairly tame “safe-ish” slackcountry stuff – so I couldn’t justify the cost and the hassles and on-going cost of getting gas refills in resort etc.

    So I went for an Avalung pack instead (with the Deploy 7 shovel and Ortovox 240 Carbon PFA probe if that helps)

    Total was £190 incl delivery from http://www.snowsafe.co.uk

    Spin
    Free Member

    It’s pretty much been covered but I’ll say it again anyway:

    Shovel, probe and transceiver for everyone in the group plus the knowledge of how to use them and most importantly, the knowledge of how to avoid having to use them.

    As for recommendations there isn’t a bad transceiver out there to my knowledge but some do stuff differently / do more stuff. Also, get a dedicated probe, not one of those that transform from a pole or slide out of a shovel. And a metal shovel too.

    sweaman2
    Free Member

    Before you go on the course I suggest you buy (and read) “Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain” by Bruce Temper. It’s the foundation to the North American Avalanche safety training in both the USA and Canada. I re-read it every year and his 10 Commandments of safe travel are something I take very seriously. It’s also very readable and covers the basics nicely.

    In terms of kit Beaconreviews.com is a good site but the best beacon is the one you practice with as you’ve apparently already purchased one. If there isn’t snow sweamrs and I like to practice using flowerpots in a car park 😀 Also practice wearing your ski gear… (i.e thick gloves; clumpy boots and 3 layers of clothing). No point knowing you can quickly get the beacon out; switch to search and start wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

    Edit: Wildsnow Summary of the 10 commandments

    sweaman2
    Free Member

    In answer to the question on the ski thread and as Rio mentions above avalanche backpacks are in a real state of flux (so much so that I haven’t got one yet).
    The original designs were all fully built into the rucksack and ran off compressed gas (BCA Float and Snowpulse being two examples).
    More recently Black Diamond and Arcteryx have been demoing versions that run of batteries with big fans but I haven’t heard much recently about them.
    Also NorthFace (I think) have a system which attaches to existing packs in some form.

    https://www.wildsnow.com/5014/avalanche-airbag-backpack-overview/

    stevomcd
    Free Member

    Jedi, I’d recommend the Barryvox Element for most people. Great range, simple to use, no distracting gimmicks.

    Seen too many glitches with the Ortovox 3+ to recommend it, although I believe they’ve updated the software to improve the issue.

    I use the Barryvox Pulse personally, it has some extra features over the Element which I occasionally use when I’m teaching avalanche safety, but are not necessary for most users.

    For shovel and probe, I’m not fussed – any shovel with a metal blade, any probe which is at least 240cm long.

    Rio
    Full Member

    More recently Black Diamond and Arcteryx have been demoing versions that run of batteries with big fans but I haven’t heard much recently about them.

    I haven’t seen anything about the Arcteryx ones apart from rumours but the Black Diamond Jetforce bags are supposed to be fully available this season. Pricey though, and probably a bit untried – I’d want to let them have a full season’s use before committing. The recent ABS recall fiasco shows how even a mature technology can go wrong!

    sweaman2
    Free Member

    You can buy the JetForce in MEC in Canada. It’s only $1400CDN.. Agree on the wanting some more user testing.

    ghastlyrabbitfat
    Free Member

    Used Mammut Pulse Barryvox “professionally” for a few years (Scottish MRT). Very good piece of kit; regular practice makes use easier. A good bit of woodland with mossy, loose carpeted ground is fine for practice. (No snow necessary until you want to ramp things up with multiple vertically stacked burials 😉 )

    Always found Black Diamond kit reliable for probes and shovels.

    You may find other sundry kit useful for snow assessment. That might include credit card sized pieces of thin plastic/lolly sticks for differentiating layers, a piece of knotted 3mm accessory cord 3.5m ish for cutting the back of the block, etc etc.

    Carry the kit, be competent in it’s use and Observation, Observation, Observation.

    Have fun 🙂

    thegeneralist
    Free Member

    I reckon the BCA Trackers are the way forward. Ridiculously easy to use. I had my 5, 7 year old kids using them within minutes in the leaves at the local park. Unbelievable. Turn it round so the arrow points forwards…. the number on top tells you how far away the victim is in metres. In reality it’s a bit more complex than that but worlds better than the old ones I used previously.
    Shame you didn’t see my post yesterday bergfreunde were doing the Tracker 3for £160, which is around £70 off. I nearly bought two for the kids, but the whole thought of them being in an avalanche totally tore me up so I avoided it. If anyone has opinions about what age a transceiver is a good thing, then please let me know. (to be found, not to find me, obviously)

    No idea why on earth someone above was recommending anything less than one probe and shovel per person. I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t have one per person (excepting my example above of a 10 year old kid)

    As stated above, get a metal shovel. I loved the story about two guys going skiing together… One was complaining about the other guy’s plastic shovel. The owner was defending it and saying it was fine, no problem, it’s great nothing wrong with it.

    “OK, let’s swap”

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    OP there was quite a long discussion on this in last years Ski thread if you have the time to search it through, short cut is to just do as @stevo suggests

    bajsyckel
    Full Member

    Just in case anyone is looking for online resources, it might be worth having a look at whiterisk (a great site for anyone doing stuff in the mountains in winter and based on work by the Swiss snow/avalanche research institute (and in English here)),and BCA who have some useful pages.

    TheDTs
    Free Member

    +1 Mamutt pulse. We have three. I like that you can have it set in basic or advanced mode. veryeasy to use, but as said above, any of the new ones these days are great and simple to use. I have an old ortovox F1 focus and that was not nearly as quick or intuitive to use. You could get quick with it but it took much more practice and multiples were very confusing.
    Also face west did great packages when we bought ours. They also sent me a nice letter to ask me to send them back for a software patch. You dont get that from all retailers.

    simply_oli_y
    Free Member

    I’ve got a BCA Tracker 2. And 3m probe. Great kit.
    We go out and bury one transceiver in a rucksack. Then send someone else to search for it, and swap round. Good practice.

    agent007
    Free Member

    Before anyone buys a shovel, even a metal one, have a read of this – the results are shocking 😯

    Avalanche Shovel Test

    Me any my mates use Voile, not only one of the lightest, but more importantly the only avalanche shovels that we might realistically stand a chance of digging someone out of avalanche debris. Avalanche debris is not like normal snow (the sort where you can build jumps with lesser shovels). Avalanche debris is so hard packed it’s often more like concrete! A lot of mountain guides use Voile – wonder why?

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