volvo side lights dont really bother me too much.
i dont agree they make the road safer, but whatever, they dont dazzle so im not reaaallly fussed.

the audi ones do dazzle though i think in dappled tree lined roads, i think they make the black hole of the shade just a bit blacker in comparison surely?

tempted to get some PHAT rally beams that i can flash at people in audis. (and people with fogs on in the day AND motorbikes with thier lights on beam) but that lowers me to thier level, and would cost money, and would make me a tool (more of)

that corsa is…. special… munque

incorrect & ignorant

extra marks? surely?

[/quote]

The motorcyclist that is pushing through an impossibly small gap on double whites on a blind corner in the wet don't you mean? Yeah I like to be able to spot THOSe c*cks.

Whereas we can spot you're a **** without ever seeing you…..

Maybe it's because motorcyclists think they are somehow more important than other road users? I would be interested (seriously) to know the stats on motorcycle accidents – how many are due to third party error (ie, not seeing the biker) and how many are because of the rider's error. I must say that, proprtionally, I see many more motorcyclists acting like complete idiots with no regard for other road users than I do car drivers. Especially on a hot summer evening when Johnny-40-something-highdisposableincome-midlifecrisis gets home from a hard day sitting in the office and takes his bike out for a 'blast'.

Wow. You really do have a beef with motorcycles, and you really don't know a thing do you?

A quick search found this –
Of all assessed incidents, 6831 (38 %) involved ROWVs (Right of Way Violations). Less than 20 per cent involved a motorcyclist who rated as either fully or partly to blame for the accident. The majority of ROWV accidents were found to be the fault of other motorists, occurring at T-junctions. This could have a significant outcome on altering common perceptions of blame in future motorcycle accident claims.

So, mostly, it's drivers not seeing riders.
Now, most if not all current motorbikes have been for a few years now built with no headlight switch: You CAN'T turn them off. This is not legislation, it's the motorcycle industry acting off it's own back to improve safety.
The reason motorcyclists in general don't want cars with their lights on all the time is that then we'd be back to square one – Lost in a haze of lights rather then standing out because we're the only ones with lights on.
If you class that as "somehow more important" then so be it, but you really should put your brain into gear before opening your big, dumb, gob.

with no attempt at humour

No, not an attempt at humour at all. I live in rural North Yorkshire and often have to witness some really stupid behaviour by motorcyclists. Almost every Monday morning during the summer I go onto the BBC local news site to read about yet another motorcyclist killed on the region's roads.

I have nothing against good motorcycling (and there is some, granted). It is the idiots that risk their lives, and the other road users around them that I particularly dislike.

For example, last week I was driving with my wife and two girls on the Skipton > Harrogate road just outside Menwith Hill Air Base.

The road had double whites and goes down a steep hill with a blind dip before rising on the other side and a very busy cross-roads. In front were two guys on Harleys, driving really well, no buzzing, no pushing in – just riding really considerately in a long queue of traffic and I thought to myself how well they were riding. Then, all of a sudden, a big Jap bike came roaring past, on the wrong side of the solid white lines, squeezing past the traffic coming in the other direction and on to 'overtake' a car in the right hatch-marked 'island' where he was waiting to turn right. Even the Harley riders looked at each other and shook their heads.

Wow. You really do have a beef with motorcycles, and you really don't know a thing do you?

I do have a beef with some motorcyclists, yes. And no, I didn't know. That was why I said I was interested to know what the stats are.

Interesting to know that motorbikes have always on lights though – is that why the rider is then compelled to ride right up the vehicle in front's back end? Are they somehow magnetically attracted by the force of light?

Of all assessed incidents, 6831 (38 %) involved ROWVs (Right of Way Violations). Less than 20 per cent involved a motorcyclist who rated as either fully or partly to blame for the accident. The majority of ROWV accidents were found to be the fault of other motorists, occurring at T-junctions. This could have a significant outcome on altering common perceptions of blame in future motorcycle accident claims

i may have read this wrong, correct me if so, but less than 20% of incidents involve bikes.
which would be a good statistic, but a LOT less than 20% of the vehicles on the road are bikes.

per vehicle on the road, bikes are involved in a whole heap more accidents than cars?

I assumed the stats related only to accidents involving motorbikes…. ?????

So 'less than 20% of the 1790 incidents analysed said motorcyclists were at fault for ROW vialations'. And the next para of the report says…

Over 15 % of total cases involve loss of control on a bend, corner or curve

So 19% at fault for t-junction accidents and 16% just can't stay on their bike in the first place.

Stats can say whatever you want them to say can't they?

Yeah Olly get a grip! you feckmook.

(I hate those lights too, its quite funny just how popular Audis and BMWs are now)

mastiles, Olly, yes I believe peterpoddy's stats of "assessed accidents" refer only to motorcycle accidents. Most accidents involving a motorcycle and another vehicle are the other vehicle's fault, a large proportion of serious injury or fatal accidents involve a motorcycle alone.

Many modern bikes have projector lights, which behave similarly to xenon/HID lamps on cars in having a very focussed, directed beam. These are bright enough to look like high beam, more so if they are badly adjusted, or the road has undulations or imperfections (which will be more pronounced on a bike with brake dive etc). When I ride my R1 (with projector headlights) behind Mrs MC on her bike, she constantly worries that I am flashing her. I have been flashed before by oncoming drivers (and my headlights are well-adjusted).

I'm not defending bad riding (your example is pretty dire) but I am well aware of my bikes and my capabilities, and I'm sure I have performed perfectly safe manouvres that might appear dangerous to someone who's driving brain is tuned to the performance and behaviour of the average car, and has no concept of how quickly a big bike can accelerate, for instance.

34.667% of statistics are made up. Fact.

I'm sure I have performed perfectly safe manouvres that might appear dangerous to someone who's driving brain is tuned to the performance and behaviour of the average car, and has no concept of how quickly a big bike can accelerate, for instance.

it still worries other drivers!
YOU may feel safe, but having a 900 barge up the inside when its been hiding in your blindspot for a mile still puts the poops up someone.

right or wrong, safe or unsafe, its just consideration for other road users, morons or not.

Munqe – yeah I know there are some very good riders out there and two of my best mates have bikes (one a really powerful beast). I guess it comes down to the insane contingent that give them a bad name (in my book anyway). And also, because the roads I drive are amongst the favoured motorcyclists roads in my area, I guess I get to see many more of the ones who are out for a play.

In fact I love bikes – I have always wanted one and tell myself I wouldn't take some of the risks I see being taken, that I wouldn't drive with the disregard for other road users that some bikers do. No idea if that would be the case after a year or so and the increased *perceived* confidence in my ability it would bring…

right or wrong, safe or unsafe, its just consideration for other road users, morons or not.

I tend to agree with that – the biker I exampled probably thought he was safe to go up the outside of the white lines as his higher aspect would have probably shown the dip to be clear. But those actions could cause other road users to respond unexpectedly.

And he certainly had no excuse to overtake the car turning right – he appeared to have simply had put on so much speed that he couldn't slow behind it (the car pulled into the right lane not expecting to see a bike overtaking illegally) so the bike suddenly had to deal with the situation in the only way he could – by overtaking. It would have been really nasty had the car actually turned….

I'm not defending bad riding (your example is pretty dire) but I am well aware of my bikes and my capabilities, and I'm sure I have performed perfectly safe manouvres that might appear dangerous to someone who's driving brain is tuned to the performance and behaviour of the average car, and has no concept of how quickly a big bike can accelerate, for instance.

I know loads of motorbike riders that claim the exact same thing, a good percentage of who have also told me of their near misses or wipeouts due to overcooking it, and some of whome are completely unaware of the reasons they have crashed. One or two are very safe drivers though. From this I conclude that no-one really knows how good a driver they actually are, and often those who say they're careful and safe are not! The same can be said for car drivers. Only motorbikes have higher potential for accidentas they are inherently a more complex beast to deal with.

I'd love one, but I'm fairly sure either someone would pull out on me or I'd over do it and end up dead.

Yeah – as I stated above, two of my best mates have bikes (they are brothers too).

I know which one will have the first accident – unfortunately I know he is the type to fall into the dangerous rider category. The other will only be involved in an accident where someone else is at fault I reckon.

in a way i would quite like a bike, but am more than confident that i would put it through a hedge within a month.

so ill stick with pedal bikes for now thank you kindly, at least until i grow up a bit.

My Ford Focus always used to have it's lights on when I was driving on the A57 Snake road whatever the weather. I'd prefer the muppet coming the other way to see me before he decides to overtake when he shouldn't. Perfectly sensible of motorbikists to turn their lights on for the same reason.

My new car is an Audi (ahem) and it turns the lights on when it sees fit, as I leave them set to auto.

Can I suggest you reserve your indignation for those people who drive around at dusk either without lights or only parking lights (sidelights) on, or people who put fog lights on in the rain?

Or are you just suffering a terminal case of brand envy? If so relax, soon all cars will have daylight running lights as it will be the law.

Olly, I think of myself as an ambassador for whatever activity I am involved in so ride courteously on my motorbike/mountain bike and dont intimidate/annoy drivers. If I see a car at a side road I will assume they havent seen me, if its obvious they have and have waited for me to pass I will wave a thankyou for their observation and patience.

I enjoy making progess (ahem) where safe to do so and believe in stealth riding (as in no one noticing my riding, not literally being invisible) and I detest obnoxious loud exhausts which apart from anything else make bikes appear to be going quicker than they are.

I passed my advanced police driving course last year, but was criticised for being over-cautious! I pointed out I'd survived 20yrs of riding bikes by developing near paranoid levels of observation and anticipation, and I spotted hazards that my 30yrs-experience instructor hadnt. However I dont think I am perfect or indestructible, and am pleased Mrs MC rides like Driving Miss Daisy!

Munqe – you sound like a perfect example of how we should all ride/drive.

I don't think Audi have done themselves any favours with those running lights. When they were on just the R8, they looked really modern & funky.
Now every other salesman on the A1 has an A4/A5 with similar lights and the effect has been watered down.
I don't really have a problem with them though. Nor with people who tailgate or flash their lights etc. I'm going where I'm going at the speed I am going; I am in the outside lane for a reason & when possible I will get out the way. Oh, but now you've flashed me, tailgated me, moved over to the right hand side of the lane so I definitely see you are trying to pass….I might be extra cautious as you are so close/clearly in a great hurry and it might take me a bit longer to get out of your way than it would have done.

As for motorbikes – I grew up with friends who all had motorbikes & I used to have a lot of respect for motorcyclists. In the past few yrs though, I have seen more & more reckless manouvres by motorcyclists. When I see one approaching I now expect them to do something dangerous/stupid and am suprised when they don't, whereas it used to be the other way round.

well summed up stumpy, apart from the bit about not getting irritated by them 🙂

Can I suggest you reserve your indignation for those people who drive around at dusk either without lights or only parking lights (sidelights) on, or people who put fog lights on in the rain?

No, they get indignation too, not instead of.

Auto lights are a pain in the arse, passing through tunnels and overhanging trees it looks like you;re braking to a following driver, even with their degree of hysteresis built in.

I had a great one yesterday….had me laughing out loud in the car for ages afterwards…..

balding middle aged gent comes tanking up behind me in an original TT convertible & almost piles himself into the central reservation, such is his desperation to make me see that he wants to get past. I am about 50% of the way through overtaking a van. He is sitting perhaps 4ft from my bumper.

I banked on it being the 180 bhp version, changed down to 4th and as I cleared the car I was overtaking, indicated, started pulling over but floored it at the same time. Both lanes ahead were clear for ~400m.
Pulled away from him without too much bother (I assume he was still in top gear). Once well out of the way, I start slowing back down. As he comes past he mouths something at me & then as he clears my car I see that someone has decided to decorate his car – the bumper has loads of masking tape on it made into a space about 3ft wide by 8" high and written on it with thick permanent marker are the words "I AM GAY!"

That really tickled me. I wish I could have seen his face once he realised that he'd driven up the A1 with that written on his car.

EDIT: Coffeeking, I am with you on the auto lights thing. I had a Megane hire car in Belgium once with auto lights & turned them off after someone pulled out in front of me at a busy junction. I realised that prior to this junction was a short underpass and it was just long enough to trigger the lights into coming on, but then almost immediately off again – I think the person thought I was flashing him to pull out. So, they went straight into 'manual' mode.

I think the person thought I was flashing him to pull out.

Of course it doesn't help matters, but of course had you crashed, it would have been his fault for assuming you had flashed (at least with UK law – not sure about in Belgium.

I think the person thought I was flashing him to pull out.

Flashing your lights at someone means a different thing in europe, at least thats what im told, so i think he prob just misjudged your speed.

Hmm.. got Auto lights on my Focus and they do come on through underpasses and bridges, but they stay on for around 30 seconds rather than going off immediately, so you'd have to be fairly dim to think I was flashing them.

Just to wind you up some more Olly, some of the new mercs have the same sort of lights. Perhaps you need to top up on betablockers?

VW are just about to start fitting them to higher end models.

the bumper has loads of masking tape on it made into a space about 3ft wide by 8" high and written on it with thick permanent marker are the words "I AM GAY!"

lol

Had auto light on my previous 3 Golfs not once did anyone behind suddenly brake as they thought I was, possibly because they look nothing like brake lights to anyone more intelligent then a hamster.

I quite like them and no I don't own an Audi. I would say the proportion of twonks driving Audis seems to have shot up over the last couple of years (not wanting to generalise ofc, I'm a BMW driver after all :p ).

I drive an Audi, but it's too old to have this DRL feature.
I do not like the DRL feature as it is currently displayed on new Audis.
If the lights were set a bit dimmer then I might, but as it is they are giving off too much glare and more often than not I end up flipping the rear-view mirror to night-drive mode just to give my eyes a rest.
These DRLs, as they are, also give off a not-so-subtle hint of arrogance.
Great cars to drive, but a shame about the personality-type who see these lights as the goat's scrote and a licence to barge past other road-users.

I don't like the Audi LEDs,think they look really naff.

The LED ones are a little bit 'look at me' for my liking, but I do quite like the way they dim when the indicator is on (yes quite a rare thing on an Audi I know 🙂 ) so that you can still see it clearly. IIRC the Mercedes 300SL (the 50's gullwing one) had a combined horn and headlamp flash switch to enable you to sweep the peasants from your path..

they remind of the joker in the last batman movie??

Daytime running lights…all for them. Whenever I'm on single carriageway I usually have my headlights on despite driving a large white van, unless its pretty much perfect conditions. Low sun/shadows/bendy road etc etc and they go on. I probably use them for 50% of the time on duals as well, specially when the sun is setting behind you making it hard for other drivers to see you in their mirrors. At least daytime running lights don't normally dazzle like fogs can.

Sidelights…they should change the regs so they only operate when the ignition is off or in accessories position. They are useless in daytime especially since the dim dip legislation is no longer around…their only benefit is illuminating the rear lights in poor conditions, but then you might as well have proper headlights on.

Motorbikes…I can see their arguement that enforcing daytime running lights would make them less noticeable, but then, just because they choose a mode of transport that is inherently more risky than a car, doesn't mean cars shouldn't benefit from safety improvements.

well what have I stumbled on!!

I love the way everyone now hates Audi drivers what's all that about??

For sure they are growing in popularity.

I blame the company car fleet companies who I get mine from as you can get better spec as standard on an A4 than a standard 3 series so most of us reps go for the Audi hence the increase numbers on the road.

Benefit – more secondhand so 2/3 years down the line into Auction and the normal family guy will be buying them for £8k and hey presto more day running lights!!

I've owned every A4 since they were first launched after the 80/90 model and I now have one of these sinfull "new" A4's with day running lights.

The LED ones are a upgrade but included on some models, the majority are not LED.

As mentioned in prior posts there is an auto switch so they can easily be switched off. But most folk are lazy and like the auto function, plus they are nbeing fitted to more and more cars so get used to it!!

I have also had Volvo's and think the day running lights are not a problem you obviously notice them more otherwise this thread would not have started!!??!!

Side lights with fogs are a different matter!!!

If I had the cash I'd buy one!

I think they are nice but copied BMW.

Isn't there some law about having sidelights on after the sun is gone even if it's still light?

Actually after some E39 angel lights…

i love those lights and if i could afford it i would have them as well! not on all the time mind, only when needed. they just look so damn sexy!

I would be interested (seriously) to know the stats on motorcycle accidents

I saw some the other day. Unfortunately I can't remember the source or the exact figures now, but I think it was something like 90+ % of all accidents involving sports or sports-tourer type motorcycles were due to excess speed on the part of the rider.

Trouble is, the stakes are so high that that last ~10% is plenty enough to put me off 🙁

I like them, and I've been looking for aftermarket LED DRL's for my Octi. Get used to them, more and more cars are going to be fitted with them because incandesent bulbs use more power and bulbs have to be replaced more often, and on some cars that incurrs a penalty price-wise. It used to take over half an hour to replace a sidelight bulb in my Puma, a recent Top Gear test on a Megan took a roadside repair guy fortyfive minutes to replace a bulb. DRL's avoid that issue. Vauxhall Insignia's also have them, Citroen's new DS consept has them, as do new SEAT's; they allow designers a lot more scope to integrate lights in interesting and imaginative ways that distinguish a make or model of car. Porche use a single strip under the headlight, Vauxhall a sideways 'V' in the top corner of the light cluster, and they're much better than a rather dim yellowish bulb. Your rant is totally ineffectual, and you'd be better off having a go at something that matters.