9pm Ride of My Life: The Story of the Bicycle followed at 10pm by documentary Death on the Mountain: The Story of Tom Simpson

Beat me to it! Should be interesting.

I always get slightly mixed feelings about Tom Simpson. he was juiced up, but that's somehow…OK in the eyes of some folk.

Thanks for that – I'll watch it, sounds good.

nickc – Member
I always get slightly mixed feelings about Tom Simpson. he was juiced up, but that's somehow…OK in the eyes of some folk.

I think it was more rife then than now.

I think everyone was juiced up at that point, and it seems for quite some time afterwards. At the time it was almost accepted without being stated.

I think it was Eddy Merckx who said something along the lines of 'what do you think they have in their water bottles? It's certainly not Perrier!'

hmmmmm. I see the same thing happening with Pantani in Italy, there's even a sportive that goes over some of his steeper training hills…Not sure personally.

Average speed in this years TdF was the slowest for years…Perhaps we're finally seeing the end of it?*

*The cynic in me is currently laughing it's head off…

But it's a fair point – romanticised because it was a long time ago . I doubt there will be the same thoughts re some of the more recent cases

I think it was legal though when Simpson did it, they didn't see it any different than we might see taking an energy drink or adding electrolytes to our drinks.

iirc it was his death that started the doping regulations, but then it was about protecting the athletes health and not some arbitrary decision on what is considered fair or cheating.

Average speed in this years TdF was the slowest for years…Perhaps we're finally seeing the end of it?*

This years was the most mountanous for a long time to mark it as the 100th tour.

Probably also contributed to why wiggins was so far of the pace compaired to last.

I think I'd like to see some programmes about early TdF epics, rather than just loads about Tom Simpson.

Was more rife then. Currently reading "put me on my bike" Tom Simpson biography.

Tales from domestiques said Tom was into speed mainly but he said it was so rife in them days you either did it or were left behind by the people that did. You took the choice of being dropped or being doped.

The glory with TS was that he was a British trailblazer, first brit to truly succeeed in Europe and make it as a top rider. Showing the way for many many others. Also seems he was a well liked guy and died due to his determination more than anything else. (rose tinted glasses in the book I am guessing but still v interesting)

We tend to misunderstand drug abuse in the early eras of cycling because in this country we tend to be conditioned to sport having an "amateur" ethos. Continental road racing was pretty much always professional so it was arguably a means to an end rather than the end itself. When drug tests first came in, riders such as Anquetil, refused to submit to them and had their results taken away because they believed outlawing drugs stopped them from doing their job properly. Drug taking could therefore be viewed as commitment to one's professional obligations. Simpson has to considered in this context.

It is also worth noting that the drugs used overcame pain and thus allowed them to dig deeper and beyond their limits. In the modern era, EPO etc have changed riders physical capabilities so they are far more effective at improving performance.

That's a good point Mefty, the difference between peformance enhancing and pain relieving drugs.

The whole debate is far more complex than the popular media ever engage with and for that reason I think popular opinion is deeply misinformed about the issue.

Yyour average guy in the street wouldn't have the faintest idea what EPO does or how someone comes to be banned for its alleged use. For example at one point (not sure about now) you would be banned from racing purely for having a haematocrit level above a regulated point, not for having tested positive for EPO (I don't know how realistic the claims of having naturally high haematocrit levels were).

Similarly, is the practice of having your own blood transfused into your body before a race cheating or not? If you have a blood transfusion for medical reasons, does that make it OK in that context but wrong if it is for other reasons? What is the ethical difference between taking nutritional supplements and 'blood doping'.

I agree there is a difference, but I don't think it's well debated or understood in the mass media.

On a side topic, did anyone see Alistair Brownlee in the Triathlon on the BBC on Sunday night? He was in second place with a kilometer to go then all of a sudden bonked spectacularly.

Next thing we see is him crossing the line way back literaly zigzaging his way to the finish. It was horrific to see but at the same time incredible that he could force himself on in such a condition only to collapse on the line. He looked in a similar state to Simpson before being 'put back on his bike'. With testing being what it is I'm 'assuming' there are no drugs involved but it doesn't stop these hard core athletes from pushing themselves to the absolute limits. Fortunately the Beeb reports he's making a full recovery.

Looks like he's double dropped some clarky cat 🙂
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/triathlon/8853123.stm

Oh joy, another chance to tell the younger generation they should admire someone thick enough and greedy enough to drug themselves to death. Just the hero to promote as worth worshipping to the public and younger cyclists.

He's triple-jacked over a steeplehammer for sure. 😛

Oh joy, another chance to tell the younger generation they should admire someone thick enough and greedy enough to drug themselves to death.

I'm pretty sure the demographic of BBC4 doesn't on the whole consist of the younger generation 🙂

Oh joy, another chance to tell the younger generation they should admire someone thick enough and greedy enough to drug themselves to death.

maybe we shouldn't document hitler either in case teens go all american hisrtory X on us. maybe you should reserve judgement till after the programme.

I agree there is a difference, but I don't think it's well debated or understood in the mass media.

Journalists have Arts degrees. They did arts degrees because they don't like science/don't understand science/don't have enough scientific talent to pursue science as a career themselves. (sweeping generalisations I admit but I hope you see the point I'm making.)

Bearing that in mind is it really likely that any sort of scientific news item gets written up in the mainstream media in an informed and balanced manner?

Furthermore the aim of the mainstream media is to sell newspapers/make us watch tv. Again, balanced and in depth analysis of anything scientific too often falls outside the parameters of 'entertainment'.

This guy:

http://www.badscience.net/

Has alot to say on the matter.

Preceded by "Britain by Bike: The Welsh Borders" at 8:30pm. Too naff for STWers?

BBC 4 Schedule

Getting back to Britain by Bike, did anyone else notice that Harold Briercliffe's "original" Super Galaxy that Clare Balding is riding is sporting some rather anachronistic Charge bar tape.

Just me then… I'll get me coat.