The reality is that not many on here are the target market, i have nice bikes, but i buy secondhand mainly, lots on this thread are the same, or would choose a more VfM bike, or another brand in that boutique price range, it is a small market here, but at present there’s a lot of growth and if they plan this well and do the usual stuff they could get a foot into the market easily, it just needs a bit of effort and hard selling, they just need to convince a few to move away from that megatower, or patrol, or a following, or whatever and move to an Atherton this year, the product looks good, they just need to sell it to those who don’t need much convincing!

I do think this market is growing, bike parks and so on are making it so, EMTB’s are great for everything, but uplifts they do struggle, i have both, i know several others in the group who are the same, and see many more at places like BPW, 417, Wind Hill, etc doing the same.

But they have to actually be able to make enough. Pointless if you can’t make hundreds of them and in a decent timescale

Then they lose the market share and get eaten by the competitors, it’s already quite competitive in that market as it is, but then i’ve always wondered how Yeti keep selling bikes at the price they are and what you get!

Only premium brands I can think of that ‘might’ do a custom full suss (if you paid them a LOT, and were prepared to wait, if they agreed) would be BTR, Starling, Curtis etc but they’re all steel, so not really in the same market, tech wise, and it’s not something they offer as standard.

Dunno about the others but Curtis will do custom geo for the same price, says so on the website. There’s also Marino. Standard offerings from both. Different ball park but same principle.

My guess is that with a single, single laser machine and ~£1m of capex investment, they’d be able to make between 200 and 300 a year at maximum output and assuming full machine reliability, operating 24/7 365. A quad laser system (RenAM500Q) would be much faster for this type of build (maybe 40-60%) dependent on layout) and an EOS M400 Quad would allow a greater build packing density (perhaps getting 2 or even 3 bikes worth of bits into a single build) and greater speed (maybe a reducing in time of 75%), but both of these machines are £1.2-1.6m so you’d need ~£2m capex to get up and running.

From the news story…

We expect the main return to come from a buy out in the future – similar to the $600m proposed sale of the bike manufacturer Canyon.

Canyon are one of the biggest players in road bikes as well as MTB, employing 850 people with €150m annual turnover.

So quite an ambitious example to choose.

Investment needs ambition 🙂

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Daffy
Full Member

My guess is that with a single, single laser machine and ~£1m of capex investment, they’d be able to make between 200 and 300 a year at maximum output and assuming full machine reliability, operating 24/7 365. A quad laser system (RenAM500Q) would be much faster for this type of build (maybe 40-60%) dependent on layout) and an EOS M400 Quad would allow a greater build packing density (perhaps getting 2 or even 3 bikes worth of bits into a single build) and greater speed (maybe a reducing in time of 75%), but both of these machines are £1.2-1.6m so you’d need ~£2m capex to get up and running

And even then you’re just running straight into huge amount of machining required at the back end

They can lease or finance Capex right? In addition they will likely be able to get grants alongside this.

Market is global, not just UK. Think pre-COVID how many people fly into Savile Row for custom suits / shoes. They don’t have the same machining costs but their rent is significant with no government grants around R&D etc. They are just the bike equivalent at the top end.

Biggest problem to me seems brand / logo. Doesn’t seem very elite global dentist…

I haven’t followed this very closely, I’m not really in their target market, I can’t see me spending £3500 on a frame, on a whole bike yes, but not on a frame.

The concept seems cool, you tap your measurements into their website, it spits out a custom geo based on those and they can make you a bespoke frame. One potential barrier I can see is there’s a huge amount of ‘horse trading’ that goes on in MTBing, a lot of people buying their new bike will at least have a thought in the back of their mind that in 2-3 years when they’re ready for their next bike, they’ll want to sell their current one to help fund it. How easy is that going to be. Atherton might be well served a least loosely sticking to “it’s about a medium mate” labelling to help that.

I think they’re wise not assume that’s going to enough for them to reach their goals and they’ll inevitably produce cheaper bikes in a few years before finally churning out the same sort of mid-range Asian made stuff everyone else does in 3-5 years.

I’m not bold enough to invest myself, I don’t have any meaningful spare cash at the the moment and as the pitch mostly revolves about their personality rather than much else, the business / former banker part of my brain makes me wonder how many people have invested because of sound financial reasons and how many are fans willing to risk £50 for a signed Atherton Certificate. The largest investor has given them £100k so you’d hope they’ve got half a clue.

Their summary forecast looks about as optimistic as any I’ve ever read when I was an underwriter. I wonder how it compares to the first 3 years trading of the likes of Bird and YT? But they of course have a massive advantage of the ‘Brand’. I wonder if R. Atherton will retire from WC racing after this has closed. Too cynical? It seems to be on the cards.

I think their success will balance on them maintaining their brand, they might the broadness of appeal in MTBing probably peaked a little while ago.

Good news for all the ‘I definitely want to buy, but won’t send an email’ types, webshop goes live today.

Frame pricing is very much top end, isn’t it? About 700 quid north of Yeti et al. Wish them well, but it feels like a long time since the initial rush of publicity, they’ve kind of lost momentum.

Unfortunately the frame pricing is very much in the realms of fantasy for me, but then it never was going to be any different – even if you win the south coast suspension dream bike comp your looking at a mediocre build.

The extra cash for a custom frame also seems excessive as I thought that was one of the selling point for the frame construction.

How much were robot bike co frames?

With 22 sizes, you’re unlikely to go custom.

What’s with the bottom end Lyric on the ‘cheaper’ trail model!  I’d have thought they’d have specced the Select+ at least.

monkeyboyjc

The extra cash for a custom frame also seems excessive as I thought that was one of the selling point for the frame construction.

It’s sort of baked into the standard ones, there’s 11 different reaches and a regular/tall version of each

The details on them look really nice, and love the sizing options. Had to stop watching that video up there after a few minutes due to the dullard’s constant hilarious innuendo and love of his own voice. Is he that wazzock from The Inbetweeners?

Prices are,as expected, high, but next to other ’boutique’ options like Yeti’s Turq series and SC CC models they’re cheaper for one of the numerous off the peg options, and same ballpark for the custom.

quite tempted

They look like well made well thought out bikes and the price is no surprise its thereabouts with Santa Cruz etc.
I personally could not justify spending that much on a bike when you can spend half as much on a similarly specked Bird but that’s up to you as an individual.

My main gripe is the name! As silly as it is I wouldn’t want a bike branded with their surname. If it was exactly the same but called something different I would prefer. Not really sure why I feel like that.

Any how they look like great bikes but I won’t be buying one purely based on cost.

My main gripe is the name! As silly as it is I wouldn’t want a bike branded with their surname.

Specifically theirs, or brand name that’s the founders surname?

Specifically theirs, or brand name that’s the founders surname?

Not really thought about it for anyone else. Like I say I am not quite sure why I feel like that, and it also doesn’t matter as I wouldn’t buy one anyway as they are out of my price range.

On the price, I don’t think they are in the same market as SC/Yeti/sworks (yet). Comparing them to Antidote, Unno, Huhn, Actofive, project12 etc and other niche boutique euro brands puts them around the same price as those. While some well heeled noobs might buy a couple, I think it will be folk who have been riding a while, and want to build from a frame up.

Had I not just built something else, I’d be seriously considering one.

My main gripe is the name! As silly as it is I wouldn’t want a bike branded with their surname.

Same here. If you’re going to all this effort to create a bike company you could at least give it a proper name.

Specifically theirs, or brand name that’s the founders surname?

A bit of both for me in this case.

Avengers graphic, 150 travel (seems low for purpose), expensive, longevity (what happens if an untested company folds in a year and you need parts?).

Prices are,as expected, high, but next to other ’boutique’ options like Yeti’s Turq series and SC CC models they’re cheaper for one of the numerous off the peg options, and same ballpark for the custom.

I know it’s the ‘cheaper’ C carbon, but for less than the cost of the base Atherton model you can get a Hightower C in XT spec with better forks, wheels (inc I9 hubs), finishing kit (carbon bars & Burgtec stem).

If you’ve got the money then the higher spec Atherton seems better’ value’ with nicer Stans wheels, X01, RSC brakes (I’d still want Codes instead), carbon bars and Fox Factory suspension for just over £1K more.

€374 for postage to Austria? Bargain

Not sure they’ve to the visual appeal of an Antidote or an Unno though. They’ve got a much more functional look to them, which is a big thing at that end of the market

Interesting. I reckon I could name more car brands named after founders than not. Doesn’t seem to be a problem there. Is it because you know of them more through racing first, and have read loads of interviews/feel like you know them?

Or that it’s just not a very exotic name? Like Gary Fisher…

Not sure they’ve to the visual appeal of an Antidote or an Unno though. They’ve got a much more functional look to them, which is a big thing at that end of the market

There’s folk that will buy a £200k Land Rover Defender.

Is it because you know of them more through racing first, and have read loads of interviews/feel like you know them?

Definitely a bit of this. I’ve just always thought they had a bit of a joyless buzzkill vibe about them like they’re never enjoying anything. Also it just seems lazy and it ties the bikes to people’s opinion of you instead of letting them be their own thing.

I’m well impressed with the effort made to strike out on their own and the bikes look alright. Too pricy for me. I thought direct sales was supposed to mean good value.

Boardman, Isla, Hoy, Fisher, Bontrager, Ritchey, Merckx

Hardly a new idea using your name on a bike

To me it would be daft not to use the name. Surely that’s the main thing they bring to the party. Not that that I think I’d spend that on a bike. Although they look cheap as chips compared to pivot

I know it’s the ‘cheaper’ C carbon, but for less than the cost of the base Atherton model you can get a Hightower C

Santa Cruz are mass produced to a degree that these frames come no where close to. If you’re going to build 22 sizes, without contracting out to the Far East, you have to charge more. That is an inescapable reality.

If you’re going to build 22 sizes, without contracting out to the Far East, you have to charge more.

But people only need to buy one size.

Santa Cruz are mass produced to a degree that these frames come no where close to. If you’re going to build 22 sizes, without contracting out to the Far East, you have to charge more. That is an inescapable reality.

Not disputing that, just pointing go out that the budget build is miles off what can be got from a premium brand at the same price point.  I appreciate that for the Atherton you’re paying a premium for the small scale local manufacture.

FWIW I think they look great and would love a go on one as really liked the DW link Turner I had a few years ago, but I don’t have the £7600 required to buy one with a decent spec and there’s too many compromises at the base spec level.

a premium brand

Premium brand and premium production methods and locations do not all go together. There is no reason at all why a Santa Cruz should cost any more than any other brand with the same scale and using the same production methods in cheaper countries (but not perceived as being so premium). These bikes aren’t just from a premium “brand” they are far more expensive to make. I can’t afford them either, but they are not comparable to Santa Cruz.

I can’t afford them either, but they are not comparable to Santa Cruz.

My point was being made in relation to posts above that were comparing SC and Atherton spec levels at the price rather than arguing that the frame manufacturing costs were comparable.

Prices are,as expected, high

Doesn’t seem too over the top for a 3D printed titanium and carbon frame assembled and finished in the UK.

They really need to sort out their support structures for AM. I’m 99% certain I could print that with less than 5% of the witness marks from where the supports attach. You’d get a MUCH nicer finish and less post processing (hand fettling) after the build.