• This topic has 141 replies, 43 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by fossy.
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  • Asthma suffers and covid vaccination – are you expecting one?
  • Premier Icon Kuco
    Free Member

    50, Critical worker, 2 puffs of Fostair twice a day, flu jab every year, and take a nasal spray (couldn’t get on with Montelukast tablets)

    I’ve accepted I get the jab when I get it and understand there are people who need it before me.

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    @sofaman

    But now they are saying “Underlying health conditions” = clinically venerable but that does not include moderate asthma.

    That’s the issue, they aren’t saying it doesnt include moderate asthma.

    At risk list

    From the above..

    People at moderate risk from coronavirus include people who:

    have a lung condition that’s not severe (such as asthma, COPD, emphysema or bronchitis)

    Or from Nhs scotland

    From above

    People at high risk..This group includes people who are:

    aged 70 or older (regardless of medical conditions)
    under 70 and instructed to get a flu jab as an adult each year on medical grounds

    This is current advice, nothing has changed to suggest we are at less risk. Amd if it has the nhs need to change the guidance

    As for this..

    I’ve accepted I get the jab when I get it and understand there are people who need it before me.

    Once again…I’m not asking for the jab before people who need it more than me. I’m asking for it before people who, by the nhs definition of who’s at risk, don’t need it as much as me. Ie healthy people in their 50s who by all accounts aren’t as at much risk as someone with moderate asthma. That’s according to the nhs links above..

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    FWIW our daughter has severe asthma which has hospitalised her many times and she is in group 6

    IMO these are the folk that should be in group 6 not those who are well controlled / managed / or for who it does not have significant life limiting effects

    Advice will change as the science becomes clearer. Its just a pity that you cannot rely on westminster to be taking decisions for the right reasons and given the total muck up they have made of it all its hardly surprising that people are sceptical

    Premier Icon Kuco
    Free Member

    I’m not saying you are tpbiker, I was giving my opinion on myself. Given the opportunity, I’d have it tomorrow if I could.

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    This is current advice, nothing has changed to suggest we are at less risk.

    The following chimes with what we were told:

    Who Is at Risk From COVID-19?
    Early information about COVID-19 advised that people with chronic lung disease, including asthma, may be at higher risk for COVID-19.1

    The data to date (as of 7/16/20) show no increased risk of COVID-19 infection or severity of COVID-19 disease in people with asthma. The CDC does list moderate-to-severe asthma as a possible risk factor for severe COVID-19 disease, but there are no published data to support that at this time.1,2,3

    https://community.aafa.org/blog/coronavirus-2019-ncov-flu-what-people-with-asthma-need-to-know

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    / or for who it does not have significant life limiting effects

    I’m sorry but I can’t agree with that. Numerous studies show that covid can do long term damage to the lungs. Asthma uk has had numerous accounts of people developing long term respiratory issues through long covid. That’s bad enough if you had healthy lungs to start with, so you can imagine it ain’t going to be great when someone with already impaired lung function gets it.

    But, and this goes back to my earlier point, if I’m not at any greater risk, then the NHS need to clearly state that.

    Remember it’s not in my interests to be at higher risk of a deadly disease. I’d much rather I wasn’t. But at this point medical advice says I am.

    There are 2 positive outcomes for me..nhs backtrack and states my asthma puts me at no greater risk..

    Or they say I am at greater risk and give me the vaccine in line with others at similar levels of risk. I’m happy with either (I’d prefer not to be at risk at all)

    What isn’t acceptable is saying I’m at greater risk, but then not prioritising me for a vaccine. Which is what is happening now . Im strugglimg to see how anyome can argue with that stance.

    Premier Icon sharkbait
    Free Member

    But at this point medical advice says I am

    Except the NHS in the form of your GP (who you would have thought has the latest, most current, information when compared to some web pages that have not been updated) says you’re not.

    I’m not at any greater risk, then the NHS need to clearly state that.

    Which is what your {NHS} GP has done.

    You’re looking at advice given quite a while ago…. More is learnt about the virus, and who it affects most, every week.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    The data to date (as of 7/16/20) show no increased risk of COVID-19 infection or severity of COVID-19 disease in people with asthma. The CDC does list moderate-to-severe asthma as a possible risk factor for severe COVID-19 disease, but there are no published data to support that at this time.1,2,3

    from a link a couple of posts above you

    My dad who is 85 has been hospitalised with respiratory conditions has a fibrosed lung, copd etc etc has not had his yet!

    the problem here is not you are being treated unfairly – its rubbish communication from Westminster. The science has changed.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    What isn’t acceptable is saying I’m at greater risk, but then not prioritising me for a vaccine. Which is what is happening now . Im strugglimg to see how anyome can argue with that stance.

    Thats not what is happening.

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    Except the NHS in the form of your GP (who has the latest, most current, information when compared to some web pages that have not been updated) says you’re not.

    Wrong, the gp is going purely on what the government green book has stipulated. Which may or may not be correct. Asthma uk are saying they have had confirmation from dept of health (post publication of green book) that the green book advice is wrong. The GPs don’t have the latest advice at all on what the risks of asthma are. Both my brother and sister in law are gps, and they have had no guidance other than the green book, and themselves are surprised asthma isn’t in group 6.

    Likewise, asthma uk and British lung foundation are pretty clued up on this kind of thing, far more than your average gp. And their guidance, which is updated regularly, says I’m at risk.

    Thats not what is happening

    Yes it is. The guidance Is saying I’m at greater risk. That’s a fact. Thats Guidance published in November and still available online. Yet they are saying I’m not getting a vaccine. That’s also a fact.

    So it’s exactly what is happening.

    But go on, humour me with why you think otherwise..

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    My dad who is 85 has been hospitalised with respiratory conditions has a fibrosed lung, copd etc etc has not had his yet!

    And what’s that got to do with anything? I’m not expecting to be vaccinated in front of your dad? Or anybody at greater risk than me. And if if not at risk then NHS need to cone out and say so.

    I’m not alone here, asthma uk have been inundated with queries about the conflicting guidelines. Even policy guy from British lung foundation is confused by it.

    Premier Icon zbonty
    Full Member

    I’m in the same boat as Troutwrestler: immunosuppressant meds for eczema, asthma sufferer, 47. Had the shielding letters but have continued working and can’t work from home.
    I got a (surprising) call on Monday morning from the GP surgery and went to a vaccination hub they were organising and had the Pfixer jab. On the initial call they said they’d done the over 80s and we’re finishing the over 70s. I got the impression they were using up a batch.

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    Anyone on immunosurpressant drugs is rightly in group 4 as far as I’m aware.

    Btw..for those who think GP’s are the fountain on knowledge on the latest asthma developments, the latest advice from both british lung foundation and asthma uk (updated on last 48hrs) clearly states asthma is a risk, so much so.that the latter is lobbying the dep of health to change the eligibility criteria asap. I think they probably know what they ‘re talking about.

    And I’m pretty sure that if they had seen any concrete evidence of no risk, they’d be more than happy to share with their 60k odd followers.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    tpbiker – that is exactly what you want to do. Jump the queue ahead of those more at risk. Yes asthma is a risk but so are loads of other things including age.

    yes the messaging has been poor thats the reason for your distress not that you are being unfairly treated. You are not at greater risk, you do not have a serious enough condition

    have you been hospitalised with asthma? do you take oral steroids?

    Asthma comes in a range of severity. Only the severely affected should get the priority you seem to think all asthmatics have. I have very mild asthma. Not had an attack for months. I take no medication for it. Am i a priority in your book?

    I understand its hard to trust the messaging when its been so poor but you are not the priority you think you are.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    My dad has not had a jab yet because the scottish government is prioritising those most at risk. He is in the group being jabbed now and should get one in the next week or two. He is far far higher risk than you are. If he gets covid he will die 99% chance – and he knows this. But he is waiting patiently because he knows others are higher risk

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    Btw..for those who think GP’s are the fountain on knowledge on the latest asthma developments, the latest advice from both british lung foundation and asthma uk (updated on last 48hrs) clearly states asthma is a risk, so much so.that the latter is lobbying the dep of health to change the eligibility criteria asap. I think they probably know what they ‘re talking about.

    Well the info I had is from an asthma specialist not a gp. But a gp could give you an informed view about your concerns.

    The NHS only say severe asthma could be a risk factor for covid, not moderate asthma, and asthma UK suggest referring to the NHS so I can’t see what info you are referring to.

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/whos-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus/

    I think you’ve got a bit overly worked up about all this tbh.

    Premier Icon FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    There will always be thoughts who feel unfairly treated in when they receive the vaccine, but what should be clear is that the COVID vaccine guidelines are in no way linked to the flu jab

    The fact is the clinically vulnerable group does not include people with mild asthma.

    My mother who is 75+ Obese, heart failure, recent cancer, immunosuppressed hasn’t had hers yet.

    Luckily I’m in a position where I’ve had my vaccine working in the vaccine programme. I don’t have asthma but I was hospitalised with Pneumonia a few years back. I now have reduce lung capacity and scaring, a blue inhaler for when I need it. Having had the vaccine does not change my behaviour at all though, the vaccine is no magic guarantee you won’t get COVID

    Premier Icon sofaman
    Full Member

    The fact is the clinically vulnerable group does not include people with mild asthma.

    Quoting directly from the NHS (from the link provided by glum, reviewed 7th Jan):

    People at moderate risk (clinically vulnerable)
    People at moderate risk from coronavirus include people who:
    – are 70 or older
    – have a lung condition that’s not severe (such as asthma, COPD, emphysema or bronchitis)

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/86323&ved=2ahUKEwiTk5KS0KzuAhXMRRUIHd2oCbUQFjACegQIDxAB&usg=AOvVaw24uAVUIY-VUUyN-VcL-hAG

    No evidence that shows higher risk from covid for people with asthma, in fact it seems to be the opposite. This was not initially known.

    All the advice from the NHS for people in the moderate risk category is just to make sure you socially distance etc, which is what we should all be doing anyway.

    I would just chill out and wait your turn, or contact your gp for more clarity. You seem to want to believe that you are at a high risk and so should get the vaccine early.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    I think we’re confusing “moderate risk” with “clinically vulnerable” here. I wouldn’t equate the two, but then I’m neither a doctor nor an asthmatic.

    Premier Icon konagirl
    Free Member

    OP, I can understand your frustration with the messaging, but firstly you have to accept that the science / knowledge changes as we get more data, and secondly it is no bad thing if your behaviours have been decreasing your risk to catching coronavirus. Risk is a difficult thing to understand because it doesn’t apply to any one individual but a population. It does seem that at the beginning categorising any diagnosis of asthma, equally any diagnosis of any mental health issues like depression no matter how long ago and whether or not stabilised or under control, are an easy way to split the data. Perhaps we don’t have the data / descriptions to differentiate the most at-risk individuals from the condition they are living with.

    “People with asthma are making significant sacrifices to follow the government guidance. … if I’m not at greater risk than a normal 45 year old then my behaviour [would change] … If they turn round and say, oops sorry you aren’t at any more risk after all that I’ll be furious.”

    Would you really be furious? Flip your thinking around, if you didn’t have a diagnosis of asthma, would you really be behaving any differently? So you were told (back in March 2020, the data may be different now) you had a higher risk of complications if you caught coronavirus, but as an individual – as an individual without any ‘underlying health conditions’ – you can still get complications, you can still get long covid, you could still die. The likelihood is over the population. There is a decent proportion of hospitalisations that aren’t over 70, even though most are over 70 and from those in hospital most going to ICU are over 70, there are incidents of 18-year-olds in ICU. Also all the things you said you are doing, we are also doing, because it is the right thing to do to limit the spread of the disease. Try and think positively about the sacrifices you have made for the greater good.

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    Good post konagirl ^^^^

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    tpbiker – that is exactly what you want to do. Jump the queue ahead of those more at risk. Yes asthma is a risk but so are loads of other things including age.

    Where have I said that? Have I said I’m expecting the jab now? Have I said I’m expecting the jab before 80 year old pensioners like your dad or my folks? I’ve explicitly said I’m not trying to get the jab in front of people more at risk than me so don’t insult me by saying as much

    Tj, you say I’m not at risk, but please forgive me for taking the advice of what’s published on the nhs site, the guidance from the British lung foundation, and asthma uk above some random nurse on the internet. This information has been updated within last week by all 3 organisations. It may end up being wrong, but at the moment im following the guidance that is there. Which specifically says non severe asthma puts you at clinical risk.

    That said I’ve heard today that asthma uk are seeking urgent clarification from the dep of health, who themselves confirmed asthma was a risk factor for vaccination on 20th of December (after the green book was published). So they may well come back and tell me moderate asthma doesn’t put me at clinical risk and their publications are wrong.


    Also all the things you said you are doing, we are also doing, because it is the right thing to do to limit the spread of the disease

    I don’t know what you are doing but i am taking far more precautions than my friends. I’ve not been to a friend’s house in 10 months, have had no visitors, not been into a bar or coffee shop since last feb, and wipe down all my groceries when they come in the house.

    If they say the guidance has changed and I’m not at greater risk then fantastic, won’t be doing any of the above any more, and I can bash on with all the good stuff that my mates have been doing. (When it was legal to do so obviously)

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    “more at risk”

    you are at increased risk but with your mild to moderate asthma its a very small increase

    Look multiple people have tried to explain this to you.

    I’ve explicitly said I’m not trying to get the jab in front of people more at risk than me so don’t insult me by saying as much

    Actually you are because you overstate the risk you are at.

    Premier Icon kennyp
    Full Member

    I’ve explicitly said I’m not trying to get the jab in front of people more at risk than me so don’t insult me by saying as much

    The problem is that while you have made that clear in subsequent posts, your initial post included the line:-

    I’m pretty pissed off that I’m now being told I’m not going to be prioritised for a vaccine.

    So you can maybe see how people would have come to certain conclusions, even if said conclusions weren’t totally accurate.

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    Actually you are because you overstate the risk you are at.

    No TJ, the nhs and asthma uk may be overstating the risk, I’m not.

    It’s not me saying that non severe asthma makes me clinically vunerable, it’s the nhs (on 7th jan)

    It’s not me that is saying under 70s who are Instructed to get the flu jab are at higher risk…again it’s the nhs that are saying that

    Don’t go accusing me of overstating the risk. If you have an issue it should be with the NHS who are providing this information. I’m simply following the advice they have given me

    Look multiple people have tried to explain this to you.

    If those multiple people (including yourself) can provide qualifications that means I should listen to their advice above what’s published online by people who are meant to know about this kind of stuff then fine, otherwise I’ll take their opinion with a pinch of salt.

    For what it’s worth, my brother, a man far more qualified in pretty much every aspect of medicine than yourself initially thought id be in group 6, as whilst the risk is low, evidence suggests the risk is still there, especially in long covid sufferers.

    I’m pretty pissed off that I’m now being told I’m not going to be prioritised for a vaccine.

    I obviously meant prioritised over healthy people around my age, not prioritised over people far more at risk such as TJs dad!

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    If those multiple people (including yourself) can provide qualifications that means I should listen to their advice above what’s published online by people who are meant to know about this kind of stuff then fine, otherwise I’ll take their opinion with a pinch of salt.

    Why on earth are you posting about it on STW then?

    You really need to calm down, you’re just working yourself up over something you have no control over.

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    Why on earth are you posting about it on STW then?

    I was asking if anyone else with asthma expected to be offered the jab. The answer is apparently no.

    I wasn’t asking the usual armchair experts what my level of risk was.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    I was asking if anyone else with asthma had been offered the jab.

    This is currently a pointless question for you, as you are nowhere near group 4, and in most parts of the country they are not even offering the jab to them yet. The group 6 invites will probably not go out until early summer, at which point asking whether you’re on the list is worthwhile.

    I’m currently waiting to see if I’m in group 4. It’s not something I’m going to start bothering my GP over, as I know they are under the cosh trying to get to patients who are far more vulnerable than me.

    Premier Icon Jakester
    Free Member

    Why on earth are you posting about it on STW then?

    You really need to calm down, you’re just working yourself up over something you have no control over.

    I think it was a legitimate question – like everyone, I’m sure TPBiker has a level of anxiety and simply wants clarity as to the priorities.

    As is evident from the thread there has been poor communication about priorities when it comes to asthma – the messaging is far from clear.

    As a fellow sufferer who is pretty much terrified of catching this disease, I can well understand the need for clarity and reassurance.

    Let’s not have a pile on as it really isn’t going to help anyone.

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    It is also isn’t helpful for someone to only listen to advice when it tells them what they want to hear, and get shirty with people who have given them useful information from legitimate sources about a changing picture.

    This is filed under people wanting simple answers to complex issues.

    To answer the question directly, my daughter who has severe asthma had not been offered the vaccine yet. Nor has my highest risk category organ-transplant immunosuppressed partner (group 4). The idea that someone with mild/moderate asthma is getting in a tizzy about this is way ott imo, but I’ve tried to be compassionate. I give up now.

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    This is currently a pointless question for you, as you are nowhere near group 4

    Well not really as the GP’s appear to already know who is in which priority group. I asked her as i was in for another appointment about an unrelated issue. I’m sure Plenty of other asthma sufferers have asked the same question already, indeed someone in this thread did and got same response as I did.

    As a fellow sufferer who is pretty much terrified of catching this disease, I can well understand the need for clarity and reassurance.

    That’s exactly where I am. I’ve been told I’m at greater risk and it’s reflected in my anxiety levels. Being then told I’m not getting a vaccine in first 9 groups just aďds to that anxiety

    What asthma sufferers require is clarity from the government. Are we at greater risk of not? If not brilliant, it would massively reduce my level of anxiety. I’d much prefer to not be at extra risk and be far down the vaccine priority list as would any sane person with an underlying disease.

    Let’s not have a pile on as it really isn’t going to help anyone.

    Are you new here? Surprise surprise it’s always the usual suspects..

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    Are we at greater risk of not

    Possibly, but probably not.

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    useful information from legitimate sources about a changing picture

    You have posted one link saying there is no evidence asthma is a risk factor. Everything else I have read says it is.

    I’ll make it clear, I’m not interested in whether you or tj or any one else thinks I’m not at risk, that’s not the question I asked in the op. With respect, unless you are an expert in the field then your opinion is irrelevant and not going to supersede guidance from official sources that are far more aware of the risks than some armchair expert. If you think I’m being shirty then fair enough, but your input isn’t answering the question I asked , and as such it’s irrelevant to me.

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    Ask your gp then not a load of strangers on the internet. That’s the first port of call.

    The picture is complex and evolving and you just want simple answers. It’s understandable but it’s not going to help you.

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    Ask your gp then not a load of strangers on the internet. That’s the first port of call.

    I did ask my gp, they said I wasn’t eligible, hence my question on here which was ‘has anyone else heard whether they will be eligible?’ My question wasn’t ‘am I at risk’ which is what you and tj have offered your opinion on.

    Btw..The GP didn’t offer an opinion if i was at extra risk or not, they just said the green book says ‘no’ to vaccine

    Premier Icon grum
    Free Member

    Btw..The GP didn’t offer an opinion if i was at extra risk or not,

    Did you ask them?

    I find it very strange that you don’t think it’s relevant to know that the initial fears about covid and asthma have proved to be largely unfounded, as we were told directly by an asthma specialist and backed up by legitimate sources online. Or that our severely asthmatic daughter is in group 6. But whatever.

    I’d just wait for the appointment and concentrate on strategies for dealing with anxiety, like meditation, breathing or even CBT. But I’m sure you’re not interested in that either.

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    as we were told directly by an asthma specialist

    Sorry I missed that bit. Has an asthma specialist specifically told you asthma is not a risk?

    If so great.

    I agree there is limited evidence it’s a risk factor, however there are a number of studies out there that says it is. Either way, I’m not a scientist, like most people im not going to try to interpret case studies relating to asthma comorbility. I rely on people like the nhs to do that then articulate the risk to the layman.

    My GP said she didn’t know the risks, I obviously asked her. My brother, a gp with a PhD in clinical medicine and professor at Bristol uni says there is a risk, but my relative risk is still very small (Ie double my age group – but that still puts me at higher risk than a healthy 50 year-old)

    Edit..That’s risk for death. There is however plenty of anecdotal evidence of asthma sufferers struggling with breathlessness due to long covid.

    I don’t think for a second I’m going to die with covid..I am however worried my already dodgy lungs will take a battering from it

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Full Member

    this article
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56012530
    suggests those with severe asthma will be group 4 and others (it is a bit vague here tbh) MAY be group 6.

    Premier Icon tpbiker
    Free Member

    @zilog6128

    Yep, and it’s totally misleading. It’s already been edited once (before it said everyone who gets the flu jab is in group 6), but it is still wrong now.

    It says

    Group six, which the government has now confirmed will include all those who need regular steroids for asthma, will be vaccinated after healthy over-65s but before anyone younger than that without health conditions

    This is based on a lack of understanding from the journalist about asthmatic steroid use. The green book is clear, to qualify for group 6 you need to regularly use systemic (oral tablets) steroids. 99% of asthma sufferers dont regularly use that medication. We use steroids daily, but inhaled ones.

    Would be useful if a health correspondent actually knew the difference but hey ho. Either way the article just caused further confusion among the asthmatic community, and this has been pointed out to the reporter who wrote it. So id expect a retraction shortly.

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