Why not? I mean, uplifts are better in a group because of the waiting times etc but that’s the only difference between it and any other ride.

For the very reason discussed further up, if you fall off and make a mess of yourself, at least somebody is there to help.

I would argue that you have more chance of doing yourself damage on an uplift day than a XC ride. Not to say you cant hurt yourself riding XC…

Sounds to me like you were riding beyond your pay-grade and have come up with a dozen different reasons to blame BPW. Suggesting stuff like footpaths down the sides of trails, it was a bit rocky and issuing everyone with GPS trackers is ridiculous. Probably wont be long until someone with a similar attitude sues them and itll all be over for uplift venues. Stick to Alton towers if you want the illusion of risk.

I ride on my own fairly regularly up there – whilst solo riding adds an extra risk if you’re going to do it, do it at BPW you wouldn’t be laying wounded for long unless you were unlucky – most trails are doing brisk business all day.

Better than an evening riding the shady sort of legal but sort of hidden stuff hidden in the corner of the woods.

hooli – Member

For the very reason discussed further up, if you fall off and make a mess of yourself, at least somebody is there to help.

Like every ride ever. Except at BPW there’s more chance of being found by a bystander. Uplifts push up the sheer amount of riding you do in a day, and can sometimes lead to overconfidence as you’re more likely to do the same trails repeatedly, but that’s offset against the trails mostly being, well, pretty simple. I’m way more likely to crock myself in a day up the golfie or thornielee.

Tangential question – do we think the commoditised nature of the trails at BPW encourages people to get in over their head, skills-wise?

Answer: Yes (and No… 😉 )

Once you get above the blue trails then the new qualifiers do work to make people think a bit, and as the reds are a bit rougher (still pretty smooth in terms of absolute magnitude imo) people with less “skills” probably are going slower, so any crash is mitigated to some degree.

But, the blues, smooth and really very very fast indeed. In fact, over the course of a day, you do get a bit blase about the speed, and start to not notice it as much as you did on run 1!

And that speed, well, when it goes wrong, it hurts. And less skilled riders aren’t going that much slower on the blues compared to their speed on the reds against the really fast boys and girls.

tbh, i think the OP needs to try to understand the cause of his crash a bit better. Did he clip something on the trail that took him off, was it tiredness (foot slip, accidental bar tweak, poor brake application etc??) or did he simply misjudge the speed of a section and crash?

Yeah I think what I wanted to say is that giving lots of beginner and intermediate riders the chance to do loads of descending in a short space of time will lead to a few spills.

All part of the fun, but unfortunately some like the OP get unlucky.

I wouldn’t criticise the trails there at all.

Probably wont be long until someone with a similar attitude sues them

Already happened/happening, according to BMCC farmer bloke during a chat last summer – some guy went off-track, fell off, lost an eye. Overweight underskilled middle aged man overcooks it and crashes shocker.

Managing off-Road cycling is a risky business – or is it?

Essentially the management of risk relates to the land owners (or lease holders) obligations under Occupiers Liability; and providing information so that users are aware of the risks, and make an informed choice about what you are undertaking.

A quick look on BPW website gives this: BPW Trail Gradings

It’s all pretty standardized across the industry these days, but due to the “bike park” classification they do seem to push the boundaries of what would be acceptable on any other site; I guess that’s both a good and bad thing depending on how your trip to Merthyr A+E goes. Personally I think the “plus” trail grading is ummm….questionable, and there does seem to be a few bits sneaking into trails that can catch people out IMO.

Worth noting that they recommend 140mm+ bikes for blues, and that you can expect rocks, roots, fast sections on them in the information they provide.

There is another term in risk management – “reasonably practicable” – it’s often the bit that gets forgotten, and why H+S gets a bad rep due to people who are incapable of critical thinking or pragmatism.
It would never be seen as practicable to search a forest every night, or GPS track everyone who enters given the porous nature of the site. It would be seen as the responsibility of the individual, who has come to a potentially challenging environment, to undertake a potentially dangerous activity, having been informed of the risks present to take steps to ensure their own safety – ride in a group, tell some one where your going and when you will be back, come properly equipped, ride within their ability – basics of outdoor recreation.

At the end of the day the staff aren’t paramedics, or mountain rescue there really is a limited amount they can do with a first aid at work qualification for someone with broken bits. If you’re breaking things in remote outdoor areas (on an exposed hillside like BPW) you need proper help ASAP (dial 999 then go for help), not a plaster and a wet wipe.

Worth noting that they recommend 140mm+ bikes for blues

.

A 140mm may well be the sweet-spot for riding BPW. I’ve no idea, as I’ve never been. But any fool can buy a 140mm bike (and plenty do!). Doesn’t mean they have any idea how to ride it. The level of an individual’s riding skill is so much more important than the bike they’re riding.

And there’s just no consistency across trail centres for what a blue / red / black trail is. Swinley defines blue thus:

Suitable for intermediate cyclist/ mountain bikers with basic off road riding skills. Mountain bikes or hybrids.

So Swinley Blue is fine on a Hybrid (and indeed it is perfectly rideable on one) – but BPW is best on a 140mm machine? That’s chalk and cheese

You’re quite right every site is different, isn’t that the point? Or would you rather have 20 exact copies of the exact same trail spread across the country. You should read the information that each site gives you (taking responsibility for your own safety), so that you understand the risks involved – it is essentially a people friendly version of a site specific risk assessment. If you turn up and ignore the safety information you can’t hold the site responsible.

They’ve assessed what equipment you should bring for these trails. If a novice rider turns up on a hybrid or a 140mm trail bike which one do you think is less likely to result in an accident? The geometry, suspension, tyre’s, dropped post (possibly) on the trail bike all aid in making the experience safer. The equipment is just one part of a bigger picture when it comes to visitor safety, you need to look at it as a whole not just focus on one bit.

BPW’s own trail grading states the trails are not comparable to the same ‘colour’ trails at more XC type trail centers.

Of course it’s the point (different paces being different!) and of course you ignore safety information at your own peril. And, as I’ve said before, an individual’s safety is ultimately that individual’s responsibility

But people may turn up thinking ‘I’ve done the Blue at Swinley / Thetford, I’ll be fine on the blue here’

Regarding a novice rider on a hybrid versus a 140mm rig – it’s not so simple. On the face of it they’ll be better off (safer) on the 140. However the hybrid would almost certainly require a lot of care with line choice and concentration. Conversely a 140mm may give them a false sense of ‘security’ lead to over confidence, excessive speed (for capability) and getting into a situation they can’t recover from – result: crash, injury, etc.

A ‘bigger’ bike is not safer, per se. Sure I can ride faster on my Mojo than my fat bike. Ergo, more likely to have a serious crash, at speed, on the Mojo.

Edit: posted before seeing mark90’s post above. Are we essentially saying that the colour gradings are useless across different centres and that they just grade the trails at that centre?

Are we essentially saying that the colour gradings are useless across different centres and that they just grade the trails at that centre?

Pretty much.

It’s the same in the Alps too, red at one place is a lot easier/harder than red at anohter.

It’s the same in the Alps too, red at one place is a lot easier/harder than red at anohter.

This exactly.

Just to chip in on earlier comments pedalling along all day with a mix of climbing & descents is very different than a dh/bpw style run where you are standing the whole time amd the level concentration / mental effort is mich higher. I’ll be much more tired after a 1000m Alps descent (which may take 30-45 minutes) where I have hardly turned a pedal than an hour of bimbling along Hamprshire or Surrey singletrack. Also falling off is energy sapping as is worrying about falling off !

Healing vibes OP. We look forward to the “what new helmet” thread.

But people may turn up thinking ‘I’ve done the Blue at Swinley / Thetford, I’ll be fine on the blue here’

they might, but that’s not BPW’s responsibility.

people may turn up thinking ‘I’ve done the Blue at Swinley / Thetford, I’ll be fine on the blue here’

It’s a relative measure of difficulty.

If I’ve done the blue at Swinley, I’m not automatically qualified to go and ride blues in North Vancouver.

I think the UK trail centre gradings in general are some of the easiest out there (the Canadian or NZ equivalents are frequently harder).

No ffer – check. Can be had for the price of the entry-fee.

No body-armour – check.

I’d done the red at Glentress quite a few times, think I did Spooky Woods on my first ever go at mountain biking.
Never fell off.

Went to Laggan and did the red. Fell off a lot.

http://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/specialized-dissident-comp-neon-blue-helmet.html?awc=2828_1493897198_35b025773317ca0015b4ceb5e46d28c8

Sometimes people have to learn the hard way about trail gradings not being consistent.

I remember going for an easy warm up on the red at Verbier bike park.

Despite being more than comfortable on the red at Thetford, I did find it a bit of a handful in the wet.

😀

The worst grading I’ve seen is the ones in Verbier..

Oh this? it’s an easy blue…uh-huh, sure it is. 😯 😆

Different sort of fitness, that’s why DHers train differently to XC riders! Strength endurance, particularly through the core and upper body, is what you need.

Totally get your point… was more a response to his comment that clearly i was unfit, rather than a specific type of fitness.

[/quote]
Aye, he’s just suggesting you have matchstick arms and a flabby belly.

Aye, he’s just suggesting you have matchstick arms and a flabby belly.

didn’t think he’d met me !

http://www.highonbikes.com/ixs-phobos-5-2-full-face-helmet.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwoqvIBRD6ls6og8qB77YBEiQAcqqHe3j1CI_kkdwK1xJJl3-trEDgC6yfNDfJqSkSGg254FIaAvcr8P8HAQ

The worst grading I’ve seen is the ones in Verbier..

Oh this? it’s an easy blue…uh-huh, sure it is.

Well I only crashed once on the blue, versus about seven times on the red.

Skills course.

Default STW answer, but true.

Makes you better at riding everywhere, including Bike Park Wales (I assume, having never been there).

Are we essentially saying that the colour gradings are useless across different centres and that they just grade the trails at that centre?

No useless, but are only a guide.

I could list greens in the Alps harder than some Reds in South Wales and any number of other strange and wonderful trails, sections and obstacles that seem to fly in the face of their grade.

If you just consider the 3 main obstacles Jumps, Rocks and Drops – some people love 2 of them, hate the 3rd some can do them all, some can only do 1 well and okay at the others etc. So to an individual one black trail might be easier than a blue because it’s the right mix of features they like.

You’ve just got to ‘look before you leap’ and not ride on flat out and blind into a trail because you think it’s a grade or two below where your skill level is at.

The last time I was at BPW, which was the 1st time on my mtb for about 6 months I had 2 crashes, first was due to my mate having a panic brake going into a drop and me crashing into him, the second was the classic – last bus, hammering the blue after Hot Stepper and then having a big off over the bars and straight into the ground. I was so pleased I had a full face on as it (and my casio g-shock – an smart watch would not have done the job :wink:) too the full impact. My knee pads and my sternum, which broke – I think, took the rest of the stop.

I honestly thought something serious was broken – probably time to take on board the “stop if you’re tired” messages next time!

A broken Sternum is painful!