I have to say, when ride at BPW i aim to ‘peak’ on the last run before lunch, and not the last run of the day! Use the first 4 runs of the morning to get dialed in, then ride the hardest trail you plan to ride before lunch. Have lunch, then i tend to cruise through the afternoon, and as the day runs out, i deliberately slow down and stay well within my limits.

I see loads of people having silly offs towards the end of the day when they have either finally worked up to hitting big stuff, or they are just going very fast on the easy blues,precisely because they feel so smooth and easy.

Thanks for the answers. What time does the cafe close?
I like cake, me. 8)

As above, tiredness and lack of fitness is most often the cause. Finish early even on an uplift day. People aren’t used to it. I ride their often.

I’m responsible for me. I don’t shift the blame. If I come off I know who’s to blame 😉

<but what else could a 57 year old do to mitigate coming off on the blues>

I’m older than that and as the posters say – ride within your limit’s. Even old guys have limits, apparently LoL

I would recommend;

http://www.cyclinguk.org/courses-training/bike-first-aid-explorer-medicine-1-day-course-mtb

A group of us did it. A Sunday well spent.

I don’t like riding the blues at BPW late in the day – they’re superficially easy and fast, and when you’re tired laying off the brakes can leave you going to fast for your fatigued body/mind to handle. The more natural reds are probably a safer option unless they’re beyond your comfort zone, roots and rocks make you concentrate and slow down.

As has been asked. Bike OK?
Throttle works both ways. We live and learn.

Whilst the OP has had a nasty off and I hope he gets well soon, I don’t like the way the post has been written, almost to absolve the OP of any blame.

The underlying feel of his post is that he almost trying to point the finger at BPW being responsible i.e. the trails were a mess, Im not a jumper, rolled the doubles etc etc.
I’ve been to BPW a few times, in the middle of winter and in summer, on hardtails and FS. There are a few sections, which if you get wrong could do some serious damage.
Its very easy to exceed YOUR limitations through adrenaline and tiredness and I suspect thats part of what happened here.
Looking at it another way, if you’re out in the wilds on un-managed trails and you have a big stack, its nobody elses fault but your own.
Mountain biking is a dangerous sport, so its ultimately the riders responsibility to ride within their limits and to wear the protective gear.

He does clearly state he takes full responsibility for what happens and apportions no blame to BPW.

There is a legitimate point for discussion (nothing to do with “blame”) about how the trails are checked after the last run to ensure everyone is down safely. And, by extension, if there is an incident how it is co-ordinated by BPW to ensure medics/rescuers can get to the casualty in a timely manner.

to ride within their limits

Often it’s not something that’s outside of your limits. I’ve crashed and cracked ribs at BPW on the fireroad type trail over to Terrys Belly, just riding along, 5mph, woosh, went down… broke ribs, gashed elbow and broke arm.

That accident could have happened anywhere. Would you have acted differently if it had been anywhere other than the bike park? At least you could give easy directions to the emergency services

Thanks for all the comments.

I’m not blaming BPW for my accident, far from it. What I posted was a very short highlight of the discussions that took place, and still going on when I see someone who asks “what happened?”, regarding the “responsibility” of the management or not at places like BPW.

A lot of the fence sitting has been around the fact you pay to enter the park, but then you’re left to your own devices. Is there a duty of care? Should there be the option of being able to walk the trails, there isn’t without walking on the trail, the access for emergency vehicles, it’s very limited unless you have a caterpillar tracked 360. There has been a lot of questions and no real consensus on any answers.

In all honesty I still don’t know what caused me to crash. I didn’t feel tired, I was riding smooth, the most comfortable I’d been all day. It probably was the sense of complacency, “it’s only a blue, it’s easy”, plus the extra speed of not having to dodge trail debris.

The trails have certainly evolved since my previous visit, with the additions of the plus trails, I take what some of you have said that a full face helmet and some padding is the minimum. It’s now not typical blue XC trails going up to full on DH blacks.

I chatted with a regular on STW and a regular at BPW, he’s there 2-3 times a week. I’ve only been 4-5 times, but over the years BPW has become a lot harder techincally due to erosion, trail features, roots, rocks, the drop rocks at the top red with the small rocky qualifier, used to be FAR more rollable than they are now, but the surface behind has been wiped out, so they’re a bit trickier…. All round, it’s a harder place than 2 years back.

I like that sweeper idea but it’s too neat- it’d only be a matter of time before someone went off on the wrong trail (whether intentionally or not) and a trail got left unswept, especially down the bottom where they get a bit more tangled. So it could possibly help but how many people will it help? What’s the risk someone gets missed?

Likewise checking riders out, sounds simple but there are people on the hill who haven’t checked in and just ride up (I think you’re supposed to pay but not everyone does), there’s single runners, there’ll always be people who leave and forget to check out or who decide to carry on riding after the uplift ends. Same issue that races have

At the end of the day I don’t think it’s BPW’s responsibility. Trails should be safe (for what they are- ie no unneccesary hazards and within spec and grade). Assistance should be rendered where possible. But they’re providing a trail network like any other riding venue, it just happens to have a bus service, nobody assumes that Glentress or Fort William checks every rider in and out. They’ll have a relationship with the emergency services for assisting extraction etc and on average it’ll be a better place to smash yourself than most places.

On the subject of surface/trail condition BPW is largely built on a “low build, fast repair” basis- not the same as many UK trail centres which tend to invest a huge amount in the build for maximum resiliance and consistency, and minimum maintenance. That’s a swings and roundabouts thing, it meant they could get a lot of trails built in a relatively short time but they have high maintenance and I think they’re planning to redo the high traffic trails over time to bring them up a bit. But it also means stuff gets fixed and inspected more so it’s not all negative. And for anything but a flow trail it makes for more interesting trails.

zilog6128 – Member

Also not wearing a FF at BPW is madness IMO

It’s easier riding than my everyday riding, nothing other than the big jumps that makes me think of wearing anything but my trail riding kit tbh. Yes it’s fast in places but the pentlands are fast in places, I don’t wear a fullface there either.

I chatted with a regular on STW and a regular at BPW, he’s there 2-3 times a week. I’ve only been 4-5 times, but over the years BPW has become a lot harder techincally due to erosion, trail features, roots, rocks, the drop rocks at the top red with the small rocky qualifier, used to be FAR more rollable than they are now, but the surface behind has been wiped out, so they’re a bit trickier…. All round, it’s a harder place than 2 years back.

Now I’m tempted to go back, can’t be doing with smooth trails.

Heal fast OP, the blues can catch you out, last run of the day x relaxing a bit = getting kicked off the front, happened to two of our group last trip.

As for all this talk of riding within your comfort zone, sod that! 😆

Was this on Weds the 19th of April?

Was there with my missus and noticed that sixtapod opened halfway through the day.

Also, saw your (if it was you) ambulance arrive just as we were getting ready to leave. Healing vibes chap!

I think places like BPW allow you to ride faster than you would on more natural stuff and the penalty when things go rubber side up are therefore much greater. A FF helmet and body armor do make a big difference (20/20 hindsight is great though for that…).

I ride the blacks, they are outside my comfort zone. But it’s the fast blues I’m more wary of having a big accident on. The reds are where I’m most comfortable and having fun.

In terms of the sweeper suggestions. I was there a week or so ago having a mellow day with less gnarcore riding companions but jumped on the last uplift on my own to have a run down my favorite Vicious valley and the new black Escort. Maybe not the best idea for last run of the day but I was feeling pretty fresh having had a mellow day. I was very conscious of the fact that I was on the last bus (only with about 6 others) so no one would be following me down, and I was riding on my own. Though I knew my friends would raise the alarm (they knew what trails I was doing) if I didn’t turn up back at the bottom after a while. I didn’t expect BPW to be responsible for me or do a sweep. I just looked at it the same as I would do riding anywhere else, made the risk assessment as I would anywhere, and then decided to take the risk. Thankfully I didn’t come off and have to wait for someone to raise the alarm and them find me. Just call me irresponsible and reckless.

SammyC

Yes that was me.

Just call me irresponsible and reckless.

You’ll need to shorten it a bit, make it a bit more catchy. 8)

This thread is strengthening my desire to make the 8 hour drive down to the valleys this year…

As for all this talk of riding within your comfort zone, sod that!

Only when you’re tired! Ok, maybe not then too. But you know what I mean – if I’m in a mincing mood I can find some bits of the reds intimidating though they’re all fine when I’m going for it. When I’m tired I feel safer on the more tech and less jumpy reds and blacks than on the flowy blues and reds.

When I was there a month ago I decided it would be a good idea to start with an uninterrupted run top to bottom on some blacks to wake me up and make me riding properly! Dai Hard into Coal Not Dole into Deep Navigation. I was the first off the first bus and back to the bottom before most people realised the uplift had started. Gnarlier than I remembered!

Were you the guys trying to get on the uplift with the adhoc lift passes? I think your friend had some fat bike “creation” with Mary bars and a bell. There was also a chap with an eBike Scott but who had taken the battery off?

If that was you I think my Mrs and I were chatting to you about how busy the buses were getting.

I think your friend had some fat bike “creation” with Mary bars and a bell. There was also a chap with an eBike Scott but who had taken the battery off?

If you can’t accept the risks then you don’t ride there/anywhere. You even have to sign a disclaimer (not sure how well that will hold up).

It’s the same as any other place we ride bikes, there’s no guarantee that you will be found if injured, so why do BPW need to take on this additional responsibility other than that you pay a small amount to ride there?

You have to accept responsibility, take precautions and minimise the risks as much as you feel able to. You weren’t riding alone either so you had already minimised that risk.

BPW did the last rider sweep when they opened. I guess the actual practicality proved too difficult and opened a potential can of worms wrt liability.

Clearly this crash has scared you so hope you feel better soon and get back on the bike.

Which bit?! 😀

The former was, special. The latter was fair enough as it sounded like he had some problem with his leg (but had taken the battery off as it was not needed on uplift).

just call me irresponsible and reckless.

You’ll need to shorten it a bit, make it a bit more catchy.[/quote]

I’ll get my marketing team on it forthwith 🙂

Looks like a pretty serious off so I hope you heal up okay.

On a serious note though, I would say that the risk assessment/mitigation here from the rider needs as much adjustment as the venue.

Judging from the photo of your helmet you could probably go with upgrading your riding gear to be more inkeeping with the style of trail at BPW.

Absolute minimum should be a trail style helmet, knee and elbow pads.

I personally use a full face, elbow/knees and then a 7iDP ‘flex suit’ and padded shorts.

Okay you might only ride trails like BPW 10% of the time, but that’s 10% too much risk of getting seriously injured by being under protected for my liking!

Just to reiterate, this isn’t a criticism of your approach to riding/protection. Just an observation and suggestion for the future. 🙂

Don’t whatever you do go on the Gondola at Nevis range expecting the red to be just that…

Lost count of the amount of trail centre super heroes I’ve seen walking down there!.

Before thinking body armour is the be all and end all to not getting hurt. It’s unlikely to stop you breaking limbs, collarbones etc etc.

Good at preventing lacerations. Additional pain if you break something.

I have to say, when ride at BPW i aim to ‘peak’ on the last run before lunch, and not the last run of the day! Use the first 4 runs of the morning to get dialed in, then ride the hardest trail you plan to ride before lunch. Have lunch, then i tend to cruise through the afternoon, and as the day runs out, i deliberately slow down and stay well within my limits.

I work to exactly this principle now, first day I went there I started off on blues, then red and finally finished on Enter the Dragon (black) and regretted is massively.

Now I just do a nice run to warm up, and then straight in with whatever I ‘want’ to ride until lunch.

Then later in the day I ride what I feel is sensible given my energy levels in the afternoon.

In the context of the above, i generally call it a day at lunch. May be a waste in some peoples eyes but IMO when the tiredness kicks in, it’s only ever going to end one way !

Half day? bugger that, just get a bit fitter/stronger. 8 runs of the red at Nevis isn’t far off about 2 hours descending all in, yes I’m tired at the end, but it’s techy enough to keep you focused.

I’m off to Antur on Saturday and haven’t ridden my FS for about 4 months. Expect a similar thread when I get out of hospital.

First time I went to Antur I came off on my “one last run” in the little rock garden in the woods at the end (after 16 previous successful passes). The next time I went this was on my mind and I came off there again on my first run.

Nobeerinthefridge – Member

Half day? bugger that, just get a bit fitter/stronger. 8 runs of the red at Nevis isn’t far off about 2 hours descending all in, yes I’m tired at the end, but it’s techy enough to keep you focused.

I think as you’ll see from Zwift/XC racing thread, my fitness isn’t too bad. It’s more mental fatigue i guess than physical. BPW for me is HARD, proper hard. On the limit of skills, speeds, ability etc, whether it’s Blues, Reds or the very rare black, i’m still pushing my limits, boundaries and skills all the time. So after a morning riding, i’m drained. Sure i could go out and ride 30km nice XC, so i’m not knackered. But the brain is fried. At the end of the day, it’s one of the least expensive activities i do in this context, it’s £30, so i’m missing out on about £12 worth. If i ride my KTM at Silverstone, the tracktime alone is £159…

Fair enough, I wouldn’t have seen that as Zwift/XC/KTM ain’t my thang I’m afraid.

Nobeerinthefridge – Member

Don’t whatever you do go on the Gondola at Nevis range expecting the red to be just that…

Lost count of the amount of trail centre super heroes I’ve seen walking down there!.

TBH this is where risk assessment really goes wrong- Nevis Red/Red Giant’s always been misgraded, I think purely to attract more riders. People say “it’s a downhill red” but the sign says “designed for cross country mountain bikers”… Harder than most UK blacks and high consequence to boot, that’s asking for trouble. Word’s got around more now but I went up for the opening day when we’d all read about this “lift assisted cross country trail” and it was just carnage.

I think as you’ll see from Zwift/XC racing thread, my fitness isn’t too bad.

Different sort of fitness, that’s why DHers train differently to XC riders! Strength endurance, particularly through the core and upper body, is what you need.

Different sort of fitness, that’s why DHers train differently to XC riders! Strength endurance, particularly through the core and upper body, is what you need.

Totally get your point… was more a response to his comment that clearly i was unfit, rather than a specific type of fitness.

I see your point about risk and agree to a point but surely not many people would ride BPW on their own? If you get to the bottom and your mate doesn’t arrive in a reasonable time then you go and look for them. You would also call emergency services if needed.

Edit – Forgot to say, get well soon.

I ride on my own at BPW and Antur. Met loads of others that were doing too.

hooli – Member

I see your point about risk and agree to a point but surely not many people would ride BPW on their own?

Why not? I mean, uplifts are better in a group because of the waiting times etc but that’s the only difference between it and any other ride.