Actually that’s a bit unfair. Sorry, Fred.

Atheism itself, being based on a simple proposition, doesn’t offer great opportunities in and of itself for discussion.

It’s all the hysterically silly stuff that opposes it (just my view, no offense) that produces the interest.

The principle of the Atheist view is closely linked to the scientific principle (the primacy of evidence) which also finds itself in opposition to dogma and superstition.

Once these conditions are taken into the discussion, it does become interesting, IMHO.

For instance, a representative of the likely victors in the Tunisian elections are an “Islamic” party who say that they seek to take part in a society that represents the interests of (amongst others) “those of no Faith“.

This is the second mention of this group of people in a major election. The previous one was by Barack Obama in his acceptance speech at the Washington Capitol.

It would seem that the Atheist voice is now prominent enough to have a high level of recognition in this sphere, which is progress, I think.

Interesting.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3XdXEJEI4E[/video]

Thangyouverymuch……

Were we not getting somewhere with Fourbanger

I have the feeling he’s agnostic, so it’s unlikely that god would be central to his philosophy 😉

I think we’ve had at least one theist on the thread. He seemed a bit angry 🙂 I think that one of the barriers to sensible discourse is all this unicorn/sky fairy/magic man/ father christmas stuff. How do you expect to get close enough to someones ideas to challenge them if they can see you’re treating them with contempt?

S’a fair point RP.

And one reason why I can’t be bothered engaging propperly in discussions of this type, as it’s invariably about ‘me me me I’m cleverer than you cos I don’t believe in fairies‘ type crap. And serves as an outlet for people’s prejudices rather than being an intelligent reasonable debate.

Love the ‘religion causes war’ type line that’s often trotted out. Cos religion created the Atom Bomb, nerve gas and Agent Orange, yeah, right….

Lifer, I would, if I could actually be bothered.

Why is that ironic?

Bless. If you jolly well have not worked it out in a bit, I might come back and tell you.

Have fun!

I know why you think it’s ironic, but you’re wrong, which makes your condescension more amusing.

Why don’t you explain it to me?

Well it’s A point.

Qualitatively however, there isn’t any difference between claiming actuality on behalf of unicorns, fairies, god, outer-space teapots or any other unlikely fantasy.

I think THAT’S what really upsets those religious types who claim to be “offended” at the comparisons, what with this god supposed to be so big and powerful and amazing and so on…

No offense.

Dont worry Houns, you will be “forgiven”!!! 😉

Enjoy the music

From time to time, one comes across people of obvious intelligence who have managed to work out that religion is empty gibberish, but who still claim to believe in the existence of a nebulous Big Invisible Super Being Who Controls Everything.

Despite not believing in any specific description of such – Zeus, Wotan, Jehovah etc ( a form of Atheism).

This just shows how deep the termite of indoctrination can worm it’s way into the psyche.

Tragic.

I love churches too, there’s an old Saxon monastery on one of our routes north of Epping, I love stopping there for a couple of minutes, having a wee think to myself about all the lives lived there, is over 1000yrs old.

But this is amazing!

The Orion Nebula is one of the most scrutinized and photographed objects in the night sky, and is among the most intensely studied celestial features.[7] The nebula has revealed much about the process of how stars and planetary systems are formed from collapsing clouds of gas and dust. Astronomers have directly observed protoplanetary disks, brown dwarfs, intense and turbulent motions of the gas, and the photo-ionizing effects of massive nearby stars in the nebula. There are also supersonic “bullets” of gas piercing the dense hydrogen clouds of the Orion Nebula. Each bullet is ten times the diameter of Pluto’s orbit and tipped with iron atoms glowing bright blue. They were probably formed one thousand years ago from an unknown violent event.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_Nebula

RichPenny – Member

Were we not getting somewhere with Fourbanger

I have the feeling he’s agnostic, so it’s unlikely that god would be central to his philosophy

I think we’ve had at least one theist on the thread. He seemed a bit angry I think that one of the barriers to sensible discourse is all this unicorn/sky fairy/magic man/ father christmas stuff. How do you expect to get close enough to someones ideas to challenge them if they can see you’re treating them with contempt?

For the record, I don’t personally believe in God or Gods. However, as someone with a scientific background and way of thinking I can’t exclcusively rule out the existance of God or Gods. This, if I have to be catagorised, makes me an agnostic. I don’t understand how you can claim to be Aethiest and claim that you just think it unlikely that god exists.

Did you miss the bit about tiny unicorns in Cougar’s wall?

There are tiny unicorns in Cougar’s wall!!! 😯

This could be earthshattering scientific news!!!

Indeed! 😆

“Tragic.”
Really woppit? Isnt it equally tragic that everytime there’s even a tenuous opportunity, the atheists on here,of whom there are many, jump straight in and patronise those who describe themselves as having some kind of faith? What’s even sadder, if you can be bothered reading back through this thread, is that (as far as I can see) nobodys bothered to say theyre religious, so who / what are you arguing with?
And just for the record, I personally dont get offended with comparisons between God and unicorns / spaghetti monsters, etc. I get offended by being patronised. Unusual that, isnt it?

This just shows how deep the termite of indoctrination can worm it’s way into the psyche.

Tragic.

Why are you so hateful towards other people’s choices? Do they impinge on your daily life?

Do you abide by British Law and the way we are ruled ? Cos that’s kind of like all tied up with religion and stuff..

Seriously Woppit; if you want to actually engage in a proper discussion, then drop the zealot schtick. it’s tiresome.

I think some people call themselves atheists and shout about it a lot cos they think it makes them seem inertesting. 😆

Elf – I think it may be the right time to resurrect the church of our sacred lady of the golden hotpants. Ready to kneel and worship?

“those of no Faith”.

I’m not sure that I’d class myself as having no faith. I have no religion. I’m not sure as it’s the same thing.

Part of me thinks that it’s a step forward that we’re being acknowledged, part of me wonders if it’s a loaded term and I should be offended.

I have the feeling he’s agnostic, so it’s unlikely that god would be central to his philosophy

Contrary to popular belief, “attacking religion” isn’t mandatory when discussing theism. I thought it was interesting, and I learned something. YMMV.

Love the ‘religion causes war’ type line that’s often trotted out.

Sorry, could you point out where someone (other than you) trotted that line out please? I can’t find it.

There are tiny unicorns in Cougar’s wall!!!

Actually, I think they might be mice. I’ve found mouse droppings. Shame.

Hello barnsley. Well, that’s an argument we’ve thrashed to the point of exhaustion on a previous epic thread which, if memory serves, you ended up being incredibly upset to the point of trauma, so I think I’ll pass, rather than re-awaken that particular experience for you.

I’m not arguing, sorry if it seems like that, just joining in on the general discussion with some opinions and thoughts of my own.

However, in regard to your question about the comparison level between the two types of tragedy (one of which I don’t accept is such) – no.

All the best.

Elf – I think it may be the right time to resurrect the church of our sacred lady of the golden hotpants. Ready to kneel and worship?

I am ready, Brother Barnsely; I am ready….

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcicXKGwwmw[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1DWBKk5xHQ&ob=av2n[/video]

I saw her face bottom, now I’m a believer….

No I know it’s objectification and sexits and that.

Forgive me, for I have sinned… 😳

the atheists on here,of whom there are many, jump straight in and patronise those who describe themselves as having some kind of faith?

That particular trait isn’t unique to the non-beleivers amongst us. Look at the posts from derekrides for instance.

Sorry Elfin – I was busy typing and saw your post a bit late for immediate reply.

To take it point by point:

Why are you so hateful towards other people’s choices?

I don’t hate other people’s choices. I’m not sure why you think that.

Do they impinge on your daily life?

Of course, don’t they on everyone’s? (Those being the background to all social interaction, as on this thread…)

Do you abide by British Law and the way we are ruled ?

Mostly.

Cos that’s kind of like all tied up with religion and stuff..

I suppose it is. However, if I were required to meet the head of the Church of England, I would not be inclined to bow, for instance.

if you want to actually engage in a proper discussion, then drop the zealot schtick

I don’t understand this, I’m simply discussing the issue from the Atheist point of view. How is that “zealotry”? I’m still open to being disproved by evidence, but as yet – alas…

I think some people call themselves atheists and shout about it a lot cos they think it makes them seem inertesting

I suppose there might be people like that, although I haven’t met any yet.

To be honest woppit, I’ve got bigger things to worry about at the moment. Again, who are you arguing with? As I recall, the original poster asked whether he was hypocritical for enjoying gospel music (to which my response would be no, you’re not, find beauty and enjoyment where you can), not does God exist – or did I miss that bit? And thanks for reminding me of the fact that I stupidly admitted to being upset by your comments in the past, but why continue dragging it out? Does it make you feel intellectually superior in some way?

What’s this “British Law” of which you speak?

(sorry Elfin, I’ll give you a ‘splitting hairs’ for that one 😀 )

Northwind – Member
When I was lying in hospital, with no feeling in my leg, did I pray? Nope. When it came back, did I thank god? Nope.

So **** off with your patronising nonsense

Ah so that means what exactly? There’s no Mummy Northwind praying her son won’t get better, or a Mrs Northwind not sticking pins in the duppy so she can be with her true love and be done with this Godless person she’s ended up with.. Or kids praying their dad might get well again?

Comfy was it in the bed?

I can think of a few situations that might have you and your mate two on a bike called jerry both on your knees begging someone for it to stop..

So much BS so little time…

derekrides

That really is fairly offensive.

I can think of no circumstances under which I would prey – because I am a rational person.

derekrides, you need to edit that.

no need for that at all.

You know, people post going “oh, we’re always being patronised and attacked by the atheists” and I worry, is that what we’re doing? I don’t intend to be, but maybe that’s how it comes across.

Then along comes DerekRides, all full of piss and vinegar, and I think: even if we are being a little harsh, in the overall balance of things we’re still in credit.

trailmonkey – Member
derekrides, you need to edit that.

no need for that at all.

Why?
Because it is an opinion counter to the norm here?

Or because it ridicules through irony the Godless amongst y’all

Or because it was difficult for you to understand?

There.. have made it slightly less true 😉

Dear Barnsleymitch:

To be honest woppit, I’ve got bigger things to worry about at the moment.

O.K., then.

Again, who are you arguing with?

Not quite sure why you’re asking me this. I answered it last time?

As I recall, the original poster

Yes, but the discussion has moved on since then. I suppose we could all return to it, though…

And thanks for reminding me

Sorry, my intention was to let you know that I’m sensitive to your feelings and did not want to place you in the same spot again. I don’t think you were stupid – I thought it remarkably honest on a public forum.

It does not make me feel superior.

I’m going to be busy for an hour or so, so – all the best.

Why?
Because it is an opinion counter to the norm here?

No, because it’s flippin’ nasty and personally insulting.

Why?
Because it is an opinion counter to the norm here?

Or because it ridicules through irony the Godless amongst y’all

Or because it was difficult for you to understand?

none of the above. just against the forum rules.

hopefully a mod will be along to mop you up.

Does it not occur to you that some of these views are nasty and insulting to some of us that do actually hold a belief?

Oh No of course not

That’s the total intransigence of the left.

It’s your view, anyone who disagrees is racist, insulting, <insert host of other isms>

you don’t know if i’m left, right or centre. you don’t know if i’m a believer or not.

when you’re in a hole, stop digging.

trailmonkey – Member

none of the above. just against the forum rules.

hopefully a mod will be along to mop you up.

Well lets hope he’s a member of the institute of free speech then and the irony would be complete..

derekrides – sorry if I’m being a bit dense, but what’s any of this got do with left or right wing politics? I’m proud to be considered left wing, and although I’ll openly have a go if I think I’m being patronised, I fail to see what any of it has to do with politics.

derekrides – actually since getting a fair old telling off on here I hold back on my views about people with belief.

I will however quote a couple of christian tenets at you

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

derekrides
Well lets hope he’s a member of the institute of free speech then and the irony would be complete..

if you want free speech set up your own forum.

This is not a democracy or a bastion of free speech – it belongs to STW and they make the rules which includes being civil

And furthermore dereck, I find it a bit rich that you can rear up about religious intolerance, but find it perfectly acceptable to describe the parents of kids with learning disabilities as ‘overly sensitive’ (Ricky Gervais thread last week). Or again, am I being overly sensitive? Stil, why let common sense and consistency get in the way of a good troll, eh?

Generally Godlessness rides with the left, the more extreme left being Communism, since religion does prove a bit of a sticky point for a lot of what the left purport to stand for..

This last Government for example, the current leader of the libdems as Godless a philanderer as ever there was, hardly surprising ‘they’ don’t stand by their word, why would they need to, there is no higher authority..

Wether you believe or not, there needs to be a higher authority to call these folk into account.

Personally I believe there is one, that’s my opinion, I’m entitled to it, I was living and brought up in a society that also believed, my kids went to school which had queues of folk lining up to get their kids to go to precisely because it was a faith school.

So, why am I ranting like this on a monday morning?

You know what, I’ve no idea, think I’ll leave for a bit..

Religion and Politics, they say never…

Apologies to all the affronted – I’m gone for a bit.

Well this has degenerated into a pretty nasty thread…

… but this I like:

I have faith, just not in a god. Faith is not specific to religion.

This is my category.

Godlessness rides with the left

This, on the other hand, is just silly. 😯