Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 156 total)
  • Armstrongs bubble soon to burst?
  • hora
    Free Member

    Like Spain Clubber?

    clubber
    Free Member

    Quite… though it is gradually improving IMO

    Funny that so many sportsmen chose to live there and also that so many teams were hold training camps in Majorca, etc but now at least some have move after they starting doing drugs busts there too..

    aP
    Free Member

    LALA almost certainly wasn’t “riding on water”, and his ever so careful statements that never ever say that he isn’t doping, his demeanour against any rider who tried to talk about doping and in the end for those awful books all add up to him going down in the Federal investigation.

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    hora
    Free Member

    Hey up trolls are about.

    warton
    Free Member

    for example, there were no tests for synthetic EPO in 1999. His blood from that tour was re-tested in 2005 0r 6, can’t remember which, totally anonymously and traces of synthetic EPO were found. He got out of it, by claiming all sorts of nonsense, including the blood has not been stored correctly (it had been) which had caused the blood to chemically react somehow and create synthetic EPO!!

    There’s a paper out there somewhere from the lab that tested it.

    RepacK
    Free Member

    Clubber – good link there about LAF, it ends up on a thread with 50 pages!

    GaryLake
    Free Member

    I’d hate to be in a court with some of the people

    I know, I was on an inquest Jury and the one thing I took away from it was that I hope I’m never wrongly accused of anything and end up on trial. Some people were disgraceful – a combination of not understanding the difference between evidence/facts and strong opinion/probably. Or a case of “what do I need to say to make this end faster”.

    jimmy
    Full Member

    Jeff Novitzky

    This guy isn’t interested in whether or not Lance should retain his 7 TdF titles, its more to do with cross-border drug trafficking which the US Authorities will take a lot more seriously. As they will with the fact that his ‘charity’ site has made him personally $millions. Whats the difference between livestrong.com and livestrong.org?

    bigdawg
    Free Member

    you guys do know that currently USPS and armstrong are the centre of a federal investigation into systematic doping. ITs not just Landis that has made these accusations he’s been backed up by a few ex well known usps riders and guys from other teams.

    Head over to bikeradar theres a huge thread running about this and quite a few sad people eagerly awaiting LA’s downfall…

    Also the EPO retesting of LA’s 99 tour sample is not admissable as it wasnt carried out properly, it was conducted by a journalist (who somehow knew the unknown sample was LA’s) using an inadmissable test, so draw your own conclusions on that.

    And if anyone thought millar was confronted by evidence and he rolled over and admitted everything youre wrong, he strenuously denied it under questioning until he was threatened with a lengthy prison sentence, and only then did he confess…

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    Wow! Armstrong really gets the petty minded tall poppy trimmers into a frenzy.

    I find it hard to believe that after so many tests that he has done anything other than sail close to the wind in an era when drugs were being blatantly abused.

    The quality of the information against him seems highly tainted, to say the least.

    In any case, I also think a bit of slack should be cut for cancer survivors. It’s not a trivial disease and has a massive effect on the body.

    I’m pleased he has made a fortune – too many top sportsmen end up sweeping out stadiums in their old age.

    warton
    Free Member

    Also the EPO retesting of LA’s 99 tour sample is not admissable as it wasnt carried out properly, it was conducted by a journalist (who somehow knew the unknown sample was LA’s) using an inadmissable test, so draw your own conclusions on that.

    Wrong, it was carried out by a french lab, under the exact same conditions all tests are carried out. 12 samples from the 1999 tour contained synthetic EPO. A journalist somehow got hold of the results and key that linked the samples to names. 6 were Armstrongs

    uplink
    Free Member

    I find it hard to believe that after so many tests that he has done anything other than sail close to the wind

    how can you ‘sail close to the wind’?

    he either doped or he didn’t

    IanMunro
    Free Member

    I’m sure he doped, but it doesn’t bother me in the least.
    Just make the best of the available training techniques init 🙂

    hora
    Free Member

    Alot of jealous people in this world. Look to your own achievements first (oh I believe you have).

    bigdawg
    Free Member

    Warton I stand corrected – but I do know the samples as kept at the laboratory are stored by numbers – someone (the journalist) was given the data to let them link the samples to specific riders which should not have happened…

    If he did or not Im not too bothered, I def wont lose any sleep over it, itll be a shame but there is an evergrowing mountain of evidence.

    clubber
    Free Member

    That’s a cop out though – you don’t have to be jealous to call him out when you think it’s clear he doped as much as anyone. FWIW I still admire him as a single minded, tough as hell competitor but much less over the years as a person as more and more about him has come out.

    bigdawg
    Free Member

    howd that happen – dup post!!

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    Wrong, it was carried out by a french lab, under the exact same conditions all tests are carried out. 12 samples from the 1999 tour contained synthetic EPO. A journalist somehow got hold of the results and key that linked the samples to names. 6 were Armstrongs

    Do you know if they were testing for EPO itself, or metabolites? A glycoprotein like EPO is not especially stable – endogenous half life of several hours IIRC. To test a SIX YEAR old urine sample (ie basic solution of urea) and expect to draw any meaningful conclusions is laughable, tbh. It’s as unreliable as the Landis testimony to me.

    Basically I believe Armstrong doped for commensensical reasons, but the lies people will tell to try and frame him just increases the reasonable doubt that maybe he was clean all along.

    bigdawg
    Free Member

    I believe they were ‘testing’ the test ie it wasnt at that time a recognised test…

    cant find the original articles re this to confirm..

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    he has never failed a test but it is hard to believe he was able to beat people who were doped if he was not doping…that would be a super human feat IMHO

    There are so many drug cheats in the sport, it is hard to believe that one person was not cheating. This is shameful for the sport which has had doping as an integral part since the days of drinking brandy, then amphetamine etc.
    Shame really I think some of the riders today are clean but certainly not them all.

    bigdawg
    Free Member

    the trouble is with landis is his testimony is gaining more and more credibility- he appears to have given himself an insurance policy in the form of photos and testimony from other riders, and is being supported by Greg Lemond, hes also, on behalf of the ‘feds’ worn wire taps to meetings with key people which have given them a lot of evidence.

    Its a shame its happening but maybe this is whats needed to finally clean up cycling…

    hora
    Free Member

    and is being supported by Greg Lemond

    😆

    iDave
    Free Member

    and is being supported by Greg Lemond

    😆

    Alot of jealous people in this world. Look to your own achievements first (oh I believe you have).

    Shall we compare and contrast Hora and LeMond?

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    he has never failed a test but it is hard to believe he was able to beat people who were doped if he was not doping…that would be a super human feat IMHO

    Considering the weird things cancer can do to people, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that in the process of being cured his body changed significantly to make him a better cyclist. Don’t forget that cancer is cell mutations and it is cell mutations that cause positive evolution. If you look at how rubbish professional human athletes are aerobically compared to some other animal species it’s not that mad a concept. Super human in this sense is thus possible!

    hora
    Free Member

    You do know about the vitorol/hatred and sustained campaign that Lemond has for LA don’t you?

    joeydeacon
    Free Member

    Hora, no offence chap, but you’re coming across a bit like a kid refusing to believe Santa isn’t real.

    Regardless of the increasing likelihood that Armstrong doped, he was a horrible person.. look at how he treated Simeoni.

    In road cycling, if something looks too good to be true, then it is. Floyd’s stage 17 in 2006, Vino’s Stage 13 ITT in 2007 etc etc

    clubber
    Free Member

    Basically I believe Armstrong doped for commensensical reasons, but the lies people will tell to try and frame him just increases the reasonable doubt that maybe he was clean all along.

    Well I suspect that’s true and it certainly seems from the Balco case that Novitzky isn’t adverse to sailing very close to the wind in order to get the evidence he wants/needs though the end result was that the dopers were outed – a good ethical discussion over whether the ends justifies the means on this…

    barnsleymitch
    Free Member

    Landis is being supported by Lemond? Try googling ‘Landis Lemond hearing’. Now I may be a bit dense at times, but that doesnt seem all that supportive to me…

    clubber
    Free Member

    Things changed between them after Landis admitted to what he’d done/been doing.

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    he was a horrible person

    I quite like the chap! 🙂

    hora
    Free Member

    Regardless of the increasing likelihood that Armstrong doped, he was a horrible person.. look at how he treated Simeoni

    He had a personal spat with Simeoni.

    Do you take prisoners if someone attacks you off the bike?

    Oh and Santa does exist to many children around the world.

    RepacK
    Free Member

    LA’s selfish determination to win & to crush all others before him is admirable but as an individual.. Im not sure I would want to hang with him, I cant help but get the impression that he would always have to have the last word & would always be trying to find new ways to express his Alpha Male status.

    Strikes me as being rather insecure..

    I have little doubt he doped but the manner in which some are going for him smacks more of jealousy & hatred than any particular desire to “do the right thing”. Its a shame because Im sure if there was less vitriol being poured out by his detractors they might find more support & LA would find it harder to get away with some of the stunts he has pulled.

    bigdawg
    Free Member

    hora – its not just aimed at armstrong its aimed at dopers in general – you may recall lemond had some fun and games with landis and his assistant in court…

    But hey Armstrong did lose him a lot of money when he got trek to sever ties with him…

    Woody
    Free Member

    It’s already been said but even if he was ‘getting assistance’, and I would be quite shocked if he wasn’t, then all he did was give himself a level playing field. I don’t think it detracts from his achievements.

    As for “If a court finds that Armstrong won his titles while taking performance-enhancing drugs, his entourage may come to be known as the domestiques of the saddest deception in sports history.” ……yeh right 🙄

    Back in the ’90’s I got involved with Alexi Grewal on a range of ‘enhancement’ products aimed at primarily at mtb. It never really did as much as it should have, partly due to Alexi’s well document personal problems but also due to the fact that it was legal and after talking to someone heavily involved in ‘sports supply’ it was obvious that its market was not top level athletes!

    hora
    Free Member

    Competitive people + driven. Do you think these attributes make the same person lazy/sloppy/happy go lucky outside their sport/etc?

    No. Its in their psyche to WIN!

    warton
    Free Member

    hora, you know nothing

    simeoni talked about doping in the peleton, no ‘personal attacks’ on Armstrong. Armstrong then set about destroying the mans career and livelihood.

    joeydeacon
    Free Member

    TBF, Lance was the one who started the spat.. Simeoni testified against Lance’s doctor – was nothing to do with Lance. Lance tried to bully him out of cycling as a result.

    hora
    Free Member

    Simeoni sued Armstrong for libel. warton if I disagreed with events (papers/media know everything huh?) and then you threatened me with libel I’d probably bop you and put you gently on the floor to recover. 😀

    joeydeacon
    Free Member

    Yeah, he sued as Armstrong launched an attack on him, just because he testified in court against his doctor.. c’mon chap it’s not that difficult to understand!?

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 156 total)

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