I’m seeing a lot of complaints on my local community facebook page about a particular section of cycle path which local cyclists apparently aren’t using.

I responded with my experiences which are that some cycle paths just aren’t practical or safe, but then I google mapped the cycle path they were complaining about (between Broxburn and Newbridge). Frankly it looks perfect, great visibility, wide, flat and no awkward furniture.

I can’t help but see the driver’s side to this one, why would you choose to labour away in the gutter of a busy A-road during rush hour when you could be using a a wide, flat, well tarmacced cycle path?

I have personally seen the same thing during rush hour on the A8 past the airport, but that cycle path does look like it snakes around in and out of bus shelters, overpasses etc. although that still looks preferrable to dicing with two lanes of 60mph commuter traffic.

Anyway, what’s the stock defence for not using a perfect good looking cycle path? I could understand that it might be a bit annoying on a Sunday club run or if you’re in a chain gang, but if it’s the morning commute surely it’s just good PR to be using the cycle path?

The one between Newbridge and Browburn is great apart from the bit past the motor dealers at Newbridge and the petrol station at Broxburn. The bridge over Newbridge even better. Used to use it daily and wondered why the guy on a singlespeed holding up the traffic felt the need to stay on the road.

Gogar to Newbridge, not so good. Poor surface in places, but generally ok as long as you’re not on 23mm tyres. Still better than being with the traffic.

It depends. If I’m commuting generally I’ll use the cyclepaths were available, but they are often strewn with wet leaves, branches, pedestrians, slower riders, small dogs and toddlers. They also do not have priority over junctions so you stop every 30secs and risk getting splatted more than if you sat on the main road and ride at the same speed as the cars.

Also sometimes the cyclepath is on the wrong side of the main road, so to use it you would have to cross a busy road twice, to get onto it and back off.

I have only ever had abuse for not using a cyclepath on one stretch of road in Southampton, and its happened three times by different drivers so obviously a ‘thing’ with the locals there. As far as I’m concerned, if you can pull up next to me, wind your window down and shout abuse at me, you can quite easily and safely pass….

Taking a look at the path in question, it looks a bit rubbish getting on/off at either end of it, but nothing obvious as to why you wouldn’t use it.

but they are often strewn with wet leaves, branches, pedestrians, slower riders, small dogs and toddlers. They also do not have priority over junctions so you stop every 30secs

No experience of the path in question, but this is my experience of cycle paths round here that I don’t use. Drivers that are “held up” by me because they can’t get past need to look at what’s coming the opposite direction, stopping them getting past. More bikes? I don’t think so.

Very similar to the cycle path along past Prestwick airport, wide, smooth and no furniture or much in the way of pedestrians, yet I see folks on the dual carriageway, in miserable wet conditions and poor visiblity, such as we’ve had this week, on a regular basis.

Not for a minute am I saying they shouldn’t be on the road, but it wouldn’t be me.

Similar on the Inverness Distributor Road. Wide, well surfaced, shared-use but not a problem. There’s the occasional roundabout but at least you’re away from the (only) 40mph traffic. I still see riders on the road though – and I don’t mean lycra-clad roadies in the red zone.

Or the A9 north of Kessock as another example.

I do grudge taking stupid detours or stopping to give way too often on some cycle paths. the examples I give don’t incur those penalties.

I see a similar thing on the a77 at the top of newton mearns. Heading south it’s uphill to the gso roundabout, single lane road with double white lines. Of course because there’s double white lines drivers don’t cross them but still want to overtake anyone riding on it.

There’s a cycle path runs alongside this, its not busy with cyclists or pedestrians yet most days I see people riding up the road then crossing to go on the cycle path after the motorway junction.

So they ride on the road at the most dangerous bit but go on the path later, I don’t get it. I wouldn’t suggest anyone shouldn’t ride on the road but I wouldn’t ride there at rush hour.

^^^ was just about to post about same section. Great path, always use it, though it can get a bit slippery with leaves and debris in winter, which is maybe why some folk avoid it ?

New ones built along the Staines road at Bedfont, raised and separate from traffic, lip for a border with pedestrians, different surface for clarity. Perfect. Too bad a Police care decided to park on it to take a break yesterday.

I don’t use cyclepaths because I think they should be limited to 15 mph for safety, and I ride faster than that. And of course when on the trike, it’s rather wide.

it can get a bit slippery with leaves and debris in winter, which is maybe why some folk avoid it ?

Most of the times I see people using the road are during the lighter nights & mornings not in winter. I’ve been riding it for 10 years and never had a slippy leaf incident.

It’s a pretty regular occurrence though and I just don’t get it. It’s fine heading into Glasgow as you can carry plenty of speed but going the other way is a slow process for some folk I see.

Some paths are great, just impossible to get onto.

This one is great (on the right hand side) https://goo.gl/maps/AUErqtLGn5M2

Except to get onto that road from Winnersh is the first exit at the roundabout.

To get onto the cyclepath is 8, yes EIGHT Toucan crossings.

Which is why I ignore it, take the abuse from the drivers and join it at the next roundabout by turning right and then onto the pavement.

It also has to give way at each junction, and they’ve built fences alongside most of it so you can’t see car’s indicators when cycling along so you have to stop at every bloody one.

I think the main problem with cycle paths is the are mostly designed to be accessed like a pedestrian. They are not considered roads so have 90* access paths or end as pedestrian crossings, with no designed way to rejoin the carriageway. What they really need is slip-road style entrances and exits

You couldn’t pay me to ride a bike on busy roads, so I dont think ill ever understand it, but see this all the time on the A82 Loch Lomond. There is a cycle route the whole way along it which used to be the old road, yet roadies still ride on the main road.

See that’s the grey area for me, commuting vs. recreation. Are those roadies on the A82 weekend warriors, or commuters? The difference being that a commuter could reasonably be expected to take a slightly slower option if it’s safer, or (as I’m arguing) it makes life easier for other road users. If those guys were out on their sunday best roadies maybe they don’t want to be churning over old broken tarmac, leaves and gravel.

There’s a stunning cycle path that’s been mostly completed between Oban and Glen Coe, scenic, purpose built, decent width etc. I wouldn’t ride it on a road bike though, leafy, mossy corners (occasionally) plus some blind sections and lots of families and kids on it at weekends, not the place for 20mph time trial attempts!

But if it were my commute and it was a busy road (I’m not sure what rush hour looks like in Benderloch 😀 ) I would shelve my pathetic Strava ambitions and just go a bit slower.

Let’s put it another way. Why do you think people don’t ride on the path. Do you think they are just being weird & irrational?

If those guys were out on their sunday best roadies maybe they don’t want to be churning over old broken tarmac, leaves and gravel.

I get this and if I’m out on the road bike I wouldn’t ride on cycle paths, but I wouldn’t choose to ride on roads where cycle paths were an option. I have a multitude of small country road options so would choose then instead, not a main road.

Why do you think people don’t ride on the path. Do you think they are just being weird & irrational?

As I said, I don’t understand why they do it – I ride on it twice a day and there’s no issues with the path at all. The ones I see are generally NewRoadies going by their speed and body shape – something to prove maybe, I dunno.

When people complain that “cyclists don’t use the cycle path” they probably mean they saw one not using it and felt they were being slowed down.

FWIW this kind of phrase makes me fume much more:

our own worst enemy?

This old article is a discussion of the question in the title:
https://beyondthekerb.org.uk/are-cyclists-their-own-worst-enemies/

As for the stock defence, a visual handbook:
Tweets by bollocksinfra

Presumably cyclists are killing over 100 other cyclists every year given the title of the thread?

I’ve used it between broxburn and newbridge, it’s pretty good, perhaps it’s badly signposted? It crosses some other roads etc but I can’t see why you would sit on that horrendous road rather than use the cycle path unless you’re a stravaist roadie.

Between newbridge and gogar it’s a bit less good, some driveway/road crossings, airport roundabout sucks, but still preferable to the road imho. I’m pretty sure you’d be overtaking the cars by using the cycle path during rush hour.

Generally, any anti cyclist moan on facebook is worth avoiding though, just bottom feeders looking to trigger for kicks.

OK, “own worst enemy” is just saying, I didn’t literally mean that cyclists not using (good quality) cycle paths are as bad as motorists killing people etc. etc.

But I’m sure you knew that.

they saw one not using it and felt they were being slowed down

Quite possibly, and the cyclist who is slowing them down might want to ask himself, is it worth giving another frothing Daily Mail reader more anti-cyclist ammunition, just because I don’t want to use that perfectly good looking cycle path 2 metres to my left.

Remember, I’m not talking about the crap cycle paths, I’m talking about the very good example of a cycle path I posted above, and at rush hour, not on the Sunday morning club run.

From a quick view on Streetview, going from where the path starts on the edge of Broxburn to the M9 junction at Newbridge:

– I can’t see how you get on the path
– There are at least six give-way crossings of minor roads, entrances to premises etc which present risks and mean having to slow down and speed up again
– one or two of these are partially underwater
– there are three toucan crossings to cross
– although some sections are wide enough for two cycles to pass, not all of it appears to allow passing with ease
– I can’t see how you get off the path, either

As for heading the other way, there’s no provision for getting across the road onto the path as far as I can see.

I’ve seen a lot worse, but it suffers from the usual problems that occur when councils manage to build something separate from the carriageway:

– getting on and off is at best very unclear
– you have to repeatedly slow and give way or wait for signals, all of which would be avoided on the carriageway
– it’s too narrow for two users to pass safely

Personally, if I was riding slowly on in urban commuting mode I’d probably find a way to use it. But if I was on a recreational ride or on a long commute on a road bike, I’d end up on the road because I’d probably never see the way onto it and even if I did I’d rather keep rolling than have nine crossings that to slow right down or stop at.

is it worth giving another frothing Daily Mail reader more anti-cyclist ammunition, just because I don’t want to use that perfectly good looking cycle path 2 metres to my left

But it’s the ‘daily mail reader’ and the irritated drivers that are in the wrong. As I said I don’t get it regarding the road I described but I wouldn’t complain at someone because they choose to ride there.

the cyclist who is slowing them down might want to ask himself, is it worth giving another frothing Daily Mail reader more anti-cyclist ammunition

Oh come on. Making moral judgments about someone because you think they’re annoying a Daily Mail reader is a bit rich. People riding bikes just want to get to work or wherever. They want to do it without some idiot driving into them but they also want to do it with an acceptable level of ease and convenience. Same as everyone else, whether they’re on a bike or in a car.

If you’re never going to do anything that annoys a Daily Mail reader then you might as well buy the paper and vote for whatever it suggests you should. It’s the most stupid form of respectability politics to act according to the values that you hate.

How about making moral judgments about the people who spend public money on infrastructure that’s not good enough for anyone to choose to use it? Direct your annoyance in that direction, not towards the people who are doing nothing other than riding to work along a route that they rationally decide to be the best one for their needs.

The difference being that a commuter could reasonably be expected to take a slightly slower option if it’s safer, or (as I’m arguing) it makes life easier for other road users. If those guys were out on their sunday best roadies maybe they don’t want to be churning over old broken tarmac, leaves and gravel.

Opposite way around for me.

At the weekend I’ll happily pootle about and take the loner route on quiet lanes.

My commute though is already ~90minutes on a bike, I’m not diverting it onto every possible cycle path just to appease some soding motorists.

Maybe they should drive 20minutes out of their way to use the motorway rather than the road I’m riding on.

From my personal experience, I sometimes only realise there’s a cycle lane when I’ve already entered a section of road at 20mph. Then it’s too late to get across a raised kerb or whatever.

Sorry if I’m letting the side down.

In the UK cyclists don’t have to use the cycle paths, so if that frustrates the motorists then they really need to remember that they have no more right to be on the road than anyone else.

In Belgium I understand that cyclists have to use a cycle path if it is provided. However, the paths tend to be better and the motorists are excellent and giving way.

My 12mile commute is mainly cycle/ shared use paths but ones built as the road was built.
The only porblem i have is crossing at roundabout junctions, at the busiest point they really need to be further down the road and the amount of glass that seems to be collecting on them. No wonder all the dog walkers are restricted to one section.

I use cycle paths whenever possible and just don’t understand the arguments from other cyclists that they are ‘dangerous’ or less safe. Maybe the cycle paths around me are above average standard, though I doubt it, but the notion they are more dangerous than being buzzed by cars doing 60mph a couple of inches off my right shoulder seems a bit of a desperate argument as far as I can see. Sure they’re not always super smooth….but neither are roads, far from it. I suspect there is an element of ego going on….”I can’t possibly be considered a serious cyclist when riding on a cycle path on my £5k pro road bike wearing my Sunday best Rapha Lycra, I need to be making progress”. Or “I’ve been cycling on roads for 40 year man and boy, I’m not going to start using cycle paths now”, despite roads being very different and far more dangerous places than they were 40 years ago. So it is a bit frustrating to see a cyclist on the road riding next to a perfectly good cycle lane whether I’m in a car or on a bike. But hey ho, I’m a patient fella and made a conscious decision long ago not to get wound up by other people because there is sweet FA you can do about it, so just crack on, life is too short.

I’m pretty horrified that near me there have been a few new roads built and they haven’t built in dedicated cycle lanes. I find that absolutely ridiculous in this day and age that a brand new road can be built without world class cycle lane infrastructure when there is plenty of space either side of the road. Disgusting.

So it is a bit frustrating to see a cyclist on the road riding next to a perfectly good cycle lane whether I’m in a car or on a bike.

Not sure why you would get frustrated by it, it’s their choice. It might not be the wise choice but they have every right to be there.

I use cycle paths whenever possible and just don’t understand the arguments from other cyclists that they are ‘dangerous’ or less safe.

Certain things are.

For instance, here’s a (shared) cycle path crossing an entrance to a roundabout. Traffic on the roundabout is fairly heavy and moves quickly, which means that drivers near the entrance stay focused on what’s coming from their right.

Which means—especially when you add the significant and inherent problems of traversing multiple lanes—that this was completely predictable:

There are other problems with this, too, such as having to turn into the crossing at a sharp angle on an off-camber patch of tactile paving that’s very slippery in the wet, with very little visibility of approaching traffic. That’s nearly caught me out in the past.

This path makes eleven crossings of side roads, several of which present visibility risks, and also throws three toucan crossings into the mix, all in the space of a mile. Never mind the fact that at certain times it’s also densely populated with pedestrians, who face additional risk from pedal cycles.

The road alongside it has one set of traffic lights and—with the possible exception of the roundabout—is pretty safe.

Surrey’s Failed Roundabouts

I’ve used cycle paths in the past and where I no longer commute on a bike I rarely use them.
However, cyclepaths have to have certain criteria fullfilled for me to consider them useful.
1) They form an efficient & useful alternative to use the road.
2) They form a reasonably direct route to where im going.
3) They don’t make me stop / start / weave about / squeeze in gaps / force me to cross main roads / give way to every single blade of grass. This is probably my biggest gripe.
4) They are wide enough to pass pedestrians / cyclists going the other way.
5) They are well maintained and well surfaced. I don’t want to be banging along a path strewn with debris and broken glass.
6) Don’t make me dismount and walk. Whats the point of that on a cycle path.

IMO half the UKs cycling paths are just box ticking exercises by the local council and don’t really offer a useful alternative to the road.

They also do not have priority over junctions so you stop every 30secs and risk getting splatted more than if you sat on the main road and ride at the same speed as the cars.

this is why i dont use the rubbish ones locally as you dont have right of way at roundabouts and you have to slow at loads of unctions/crossing points

Essentially non cyclist place something not on the road and think it will be ace even though they do not cycle themselves

Thanks folks, if nothing else Bez gave me a good list of points to put to the local moaners, not having used that bit of cycle path myself I hadn’t really thought about the number of junctions etc.

Re: my Daily Mail comments, I know what I meant. In the (perhaps imaginary) scenario where the cycle path is NO WORSE than using the road, why would you continue to use the road and antagonise the poor dears in their cars, unless you were trying to make some sort of stupid statement about your right to be there?

Before anyone responds, I refer you again to the part about the (hypothetical) cycle path being equally as good as the road beside it, as this point seems to have been missed above ^

In the (perhaps imaginary) scenario where the cycle path is NO WORSE than using the road, why would you continue to use the road and antagonise the poor dears in their cars, unless you were trying to make some sort of stupid statement about your right to be there?

I get your point but it’s a slightly simplistic statement, because “no worse” plays out differently for different people at different times, and different people have different perceptions of risk from traffic, which is a factor in the “no worse” judgement.

Realistically I think there are very few people who would choose to antagonise people in cars for no benefit, because that clearly makes no sense unless you like having a fight with someone armed with a ton of metal. So I’d suggest your hypothetical scenario is fundamentally flawed.

The basic point is that if people aren’t choosing it, there’s at least one reason why it’s not good enough for them to choose it. The solution is to fix what’s wrong with it rather than to simply tell people to use something that they perceive to be less good than exposing themselves to the wrath of “the poor dears” in the cars and the lorries.

– I can’t see how you get on the path
– There are at least six give-way crossings of minor roads, entrances to premises etc which present risks and mean having to slow down and speed up again
– one or two of these are partially underwater
– there are three toucan crossings to cross
– although some sections are wide enough for two cycles to pass, not all of it appears to allow passing with ease
– I can’t see how you get off the path, either

Precisely. There is a path near me, that looks good quality to the untrained eye as it is wide, segregated and well surfaced. In order to use it you have to cross the road twice, and give way at five minor junctions (which require you to look through 270 degrees necessitating a complete stop). It is definitely less convenient, and arguably less safe than using the road.

I ride in Denmark quite a bit and you are expected to use the excellent cycle paths they provide on all but roads other than country lanes. Trouble is I’m so programmed to use the road that I often the path start, perhaps in the OPs case everyone is dismissive of the 95% of bad paths that they ignore all.

I did the same as Bez and checked out the OP’s bike path. It might be well surfaced etc., but right here is the reason I’d be unlikely to use it https://goo.gl/maps/WNt9NJLnBPy

In a short space there you have 3 points where you have to give way – not even to people using a different route, but just to people pulling off the road into services (one doesn’t even go anywhere FFS!) Rubbish infrastructure.

I wouldn’t, but it’s a pointless question, because whenever anybody mentions “wonderful” cycling infrastructure in this country it’s always objectively worse than the road in one way or another. Extremely rare for example that you don’t have to give way at every side turning.

I’m confused – could you explain which bike path you mean, because I presume it’s not this one: https://goo.gl/maps/hYtkP18eNgE2