Are we being fleeced?

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  • Are we being fleeced?
  • esher shore
    Member

    For example, scott bike RARELY need more than screwing the peadls in, and putting the seat post and the stem.

    several Scott “sub” hybrid bikes have come through our workshop with the damaged rim (spoke nipple) issue I mentioned

    when you are talking about higher end bikes, they are generally well built and fit for purpose

    its really the entry level and mid level where costs are being cut

    if you look at the Specialized Rockhopper in 2008 and Specialized Rockhopper in 2011, the difference in components are shocking…

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    esher shore – Member

    where a £450 bike would have had a shimano bottom bracket and shimano v-brake calipers in 2008, it now has an unbranded bottom bracket which goes rough before the FOC (4-6 week first free service) and constant rubbing from the brake pads on the rims as the unbranded v-brake calipers cannot be balanced using the spring’s screw adjusters

    Makes me smile that you started your post off with a wee dig at Halfords, yet they sell £450 quality bikes that don’t have these vices.

    emanuel
    Member

    but cars are much more disposable than bikes.
    don’t really have bike salvage yards do you?
    but you see ancient,low quality bikes in garages.
    and plenty of people using 20-30 yo bikes for shopping,or going to the station.or the beach.how many 30yo cars do you see on the road?
    and if you leave a bike at a skip,it’ll be picked up by someone,then reused.
    besides,you can get an old frame up and running,might not be worth it.but it’s easy,and can be cheap.
    try doing that with a car.
    so bikes are nice.

    compositepro
    Member

    second thoughts the earlier comment of yes when your down at the sub 1k mark i dont think its bad value per se

    if your daft enough to buy a 5k production bike ….just bend over and expect to take it

    uponthedowns
    Member

    Are we being fleeced? Depends what you’re buying. Going round my LBS and looking at the prices of quite ordinary mid range bikes from the likes of Specialized I end up shaking my head.

    However in 2003 I bought a Turner 5 Spot frame for about £1300. Latest 5 Spot frame can be had for around £1500 and the £ to $ is at about the same level as back then. After having a quick look round CRC I reckon I could build a 5 Spot up to the same quality spec as my 2003 5 Spot for about the same price so taking into account 7-8 years inflation I reckon today’s 5 Spot buyer is getting a good deal. Not that I would buy a new one cause I’m still happily riding my 2003 5 Spot.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    In 1996 I paid £800 for a fully rigid Orange P7 with STX RC on it – one down from LX in those days. Cantis, never mind V brakes.

    You’d do far far better for £800 nowadays.

    Fleeced? Really?
    Recent price Increases are largely due to increases costs in raw materials, distribution, and a rubbish great British pound. And best get used to it, I don’t see it getting any better in the future.

    Have you see the price of butter recently. £1.75 for anchor. I am sure it has doubled in last few years.

    If you can find a packet of butter for £0.80 it’s probably going to taste like crap. So back to bikes, costs have gone up, but some people are still selling products that look the same but at old fashioned prices…. But they may not last.

    snowpaul
    Member

    Buy 2nd hand – be a bottom feeder / ebayer

    If you buy wisely / maintain kit you can lower your biking costs BUT personally I think current prices are stupid.

    55 quid for an XT 9spd cassette? THINK what 55 quid can buy you electronics / food etc…

    I am using deore now as I burn through kit regardless of ‘quality’

    Square taper is ace as is octalink – HT2 is not as good.

    I wont be buying a new bike again

    paul

    Pieface
    Member

    After working out using the same bike year round is costing me at least £500 PA in spare parts, I’m now riding a fully rigid bike pieced together from old parts with deore kit and absolutely loving it. Keep the nice bike for when its nice.

    There are cheaper ways to enjoy the sport.

    compositepro
    Member

    Buy British anyone.?

    mamadirt
    Member

    Definitely second the sq taper comments – they’re indestructable (well, apart from those awful plastic non-driveside cups).

    6 year old cranks – Raceface Northshore sq taper – bombproof.
    2 year old plastic pedals – cup and cone bearings need adjusting every 6 months or so.
    2 year old Lyriks – seals regularly lubed but otherwise untouched apart from spring change last year.
    2 year old white saddle (yes, still white!) – gets repainted/lacquered when necessary and still looks great (yes I know I have too much time on my hands but it’s comfy).
    4 year old Hope brakes – still work like new (hoses have been swapped a few times but that’s more to do with frame swapping than anything else 😳 )
    Chain – heck, I can’t remember when I last bought a chain and chainrings last for ages when you run a single ring up front.
    5-6 year old wheels – a bit Trigger’s broom (I think the rims are the only parts which remain of the originals).

    I get quite attached to my old stuff and do look after it (although anything older than 5 years gets ebayed as classic/retro 😆 ) – if only I could apply the same logic to my frames 😕 . . . damn you tiny frame makers!

    Oh and shoes . . . I’d love a pair of Five Tens but instead I’ve just spent part of the evening hacking more grooves in the soles of my (very) ancient Shimano DX shoes for winter grip (not a lot of sole left, but hey, they’ll do another winter).

    winterfold
    Member

    And there I was thinking how great my MTB had been over it’s first 12 months.

    Broke the chain and a set of rear pads but that’s it.

    Haven’t touched the front mech once and it’s only a Deore and keeps working even when completely covered in Wealden clay.

    My most recent road bike (campag admittedly) has had one set of cables in 3 years and a new set of tyres.

    I ride loads, bikes are great etc

    On the other hand they cost the same ~ 1500 as the old mans 125 ninja electric start automatic 300 mpg scooter 🙄

    fibre
    Member

    The sweet spot was a few years back I guess (early 00’s), before all the global financial issues etc. Stuff was cheaper and the strength\weight\functionality was pretty good.

    Prices have gone up lots and the top end is silly but if you pick the right bits for your budget and type of riding and look after stuff I don’t see why you can’t have a decent bike that will last. You don’t really need more than SLX when it comes to drivetrain and brakes, entry level Rockshox are pretty good now and if you are not convinced by modern alloy or carbon frames then buy a reasonable quality steel frame. The secound hand market is very active and the upgrade bug means that there is a lot of decent new kit about for a lot less than retail.

    Comparing old with new I’d much rather ride my modern mountain bike rather than my first decent bike I got back in 95, I loved it at the time but it wouldn’t be as capable or versatile as my current bikes. I hated rim brakes, elastomers forks and square taper BB’s and cranks. They were fine for XC but not for heavier riding, snaped a few axles and rounded crank tapers back in the day but that was doing stuff like bigger drops to flat in street\dirt\dh stuff back in the day.

    dmjb4
    Member

    The comments on raw material costing more is BS as well.

    http://www.lme.com/aluminium_graphs.asp

    Spot price for Aluminium is same now as in 2005. It makes little difference anyhow as the $25 cost of raw materials used to make the average bike contributes little to the overall cost. Global financial issues have made things cheaper for those lucky enough to have a job and be able to afford them.

    Bikes seem to be opposite though. Look at the amount of bikes with e.g a Suntour fork when last years same model had Toras.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    You can buy a decent single speed from On-One for not much, or for a bit more one from Singular.

    Use cable disks, and perform simple maintenance, and you’ll get total reliability.

    We’re not being fleeced.

    emanuel
    Member

    some are..
    most come a certain conclusion about their needs,wants,and find a balance.and see through all the marketing.
    however..
    some tools are wicked expensive,the shimano cone wrench,31mm I think,for servicing 20mm ft hubs is a rip off.
    just an example.loads more,chainlube sometimes is a ripoff.
    brooks saddles are getting to be 2-3x the price they were not so long ago.don’t look at their ‘accessories’,those are rip offs.
    really high end stuff is becoming more and more expensive.
    look at frames.high end wheelsets.
    tyres…
    trickle down,prefer the shimano version to the thatcher version.
    though I think we have both.

    I have a Muddy Fox in my shed that I use for nipping around on. IIRC it cost in its day the equivalent of a 2012 Genesis Core 26.1

    Muddy Fox is rigid with cantis, threaded headset
    Genesis has 27 gears, aheadset, hydro brakes and a lockout sus fork

    I know what i’d rather have if nostalgia wasn’t involved.

    People get hung up on having XT now because its what they have a few years ago. I personally think modern Deore is a lot better than the XT of a few years ago.

    deviant
    Member

    I’d go as far as to say the Alivio stuff below Deore is still good too. My mechs, brakes, shifters, bottom bracket and cranks have been faultless in 9 months of all weather and all terrain riding. Its perfectly possible to put together a quality hardtail running Deore and SLX everything for not a lot of money, especially if you’re still happy with 9 speed stuff.
    Top end stuff costs top money, always has done hasn’t it? As somebody else said, you’re often paying for less weight and unfortunately less reliability often accompanies this!

    hora
    Member

    15yrs ago £800 was a lot of money. Especially for a bicycle.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG if you go downhill with steps on it with an XT you cant say it’s not fit for purpose as you should use saints. It’s mtbing FFS nothing is going to be fit for purpose but the heaviest DH stuff. I can get as much life out of my HTII than I could do out of my HTI. And they are both taking as much dust. Explain that to me.

    Most people agree that HT2 does not last nearly as long as square taper. Your sample of one does not alter this fact.

    Now calm down, there’s a good boy.

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