Oh dear

Maybe you could offer a service where you assess a fellow cyclists ability and then let them know what level of kit you think they should have!

In response to the op. I’d say yes, last year i did 2 organised rides, one road sportif (melton cicleclassic) and 1 mtb event (singlespeed euros).

The road sportif had an awful lot of ‘look at me’ twunts including one fella in full astana kit and overshoes. it’s frickin june, mate!! IMO at lot of the participants aint real cyclists, just scenesters, if the next big thing is ultimate frisby then a lot of them will be there instead.

The singlespeed thing was a really enjoyable weekend, people riding many diferent piles of crap. I didn’t see many egos at all.

And I’m a roadie……….. 😆

Does me buying a £700 wheelset for my ‘all mountain 6.7″ travel trail machine’ put me into the bracket of all gear no idea?

Yes. Get yourself a crap bike immediately!

Edit; unless of course you can “justify” spending your own money by being a good rider 😉

Even if i said that this is me over some jumps at the bottom of a DH course?

Depends if you were just saying it or it was actually true!!!

With wheelsuckers I always find it a touch impolite for someone not to ask if they can draft you outside a race. You can always ride them off your wheel and if you can’t manage it they are probably experienced enough at holding a wheel that they aren’t going to be a liability on there (depending on how quick you are obviously.)

Iain

As a previous poster mentioned:
Sportives are no more than reliability rides or audaxes but without the navigation skills (and shorter), and the cake stops are poorer compared to audaxes (sometimes these have beans on toast).
There is no comparison to real road racing at Cat E/1/2 level anyhow.

Has anybody heard the of phrase ‘plastic biker’?

If you have a problem with wheel suckers, there’s an easy answer. Drop them. Unless of course, you’re not fast enough.

As far as the OP goes, no, I don’t believe sportive riders like that are the most annoying. The most annoying riders for me are the ones who giuve a fuckoing shjit about what sort of bike you’re on or what you’re wearing

As a few others have mentioned, the irony of ‘all the gear no idea’ riders being discussed on a mountain bike forum is fantastic.

Undoubtedly there are some expensive bikes on sportives, sometimes being ridden by some sub-optimal bmi riders, but the average cost of mountain bikes that you see around must be equally as high (and the rider weight…).

As for sportive riders taking it seriously, why not? They have paid their money so can ride it how they like surely? There are good riders, there are wealthy riders, they just don’t always happen to be the same person.

I’m struggling to understand why it’s not a race. If people are timed and lots are going for their best time, then it IS a race. Just because the riders don’t belong to some arcane roadie race scene doesn’t make it any less valid. I mean – some of these roadie races full of club riders only go on for 30km or so. Have these folk no stamina?

Excellent work druidh!

But my troll of the thread is this, absolute genius, I was about to flame the guy and everything.

f you don’t like it then ride them off your wheel. If you’re not good enough to do that then stop complaining

So well crafted…on the one hand wonderfully simple and with a logic Bertrand Russell would have admired, and on the other: displaying unbelievable stupidity and naivity that only a cretin would believe.

“Chapeau, Sir!”

They’re not races in any way druidh. They are just a timed ride, and some of the timing is pretty ‘relaxed’ i.e you’ll sometimes get a start marshal say to you that your group can go anytime now. There isn’t as far as I know a massed start.
Simple really, if an event is not a race is isn’t a race.

As for roadmen not having stamina? What’s the average for a 100Km Sportives it must be at least 2hr 30min Because that’s what a roadman will be needing to do to even compete on the road.
And TBH I haven’t seen any 30km road races, what ones are you thinking of.

Here’s some more observations on the ‘serious sportive’ rider.

1) They would be better of learning to ride on a more basic bike before advancing to carbon wheels and so on.
2) They will be wearing generic kit : no affiliation to any local club or sponsorship : so who are these people?
3) They do not take part in local races or time trials or mtb events

Like a previous poster said : are they are like the full on ‘storm trooper’ gear ‘all mountain’ bike MTB’er hanging round a canal towpath. 🙂

Not really sure why sportive riders with fancy kit should annoy you though

I regularly see people commuting in Ferraris – why the hell should I care?

BTW – just so that I don’t annoy you too much, I’ll be doing the Richmond Sportive in a few weeks on my 5 year old Trek 1500 with a kinked frame and very cheap wheels, I’ll have Lycra shorts on but probably a MTB top and dirty MTB shoes and a peak on my hat
🙂

@oldgit – a Time Trial isn’t a race then?

1) They would be better of learning to ride on a more basic bike before advancing to carbon wheels and so on.

You could say that about the vast majority of people but where does it stop? Sorry sir, you can’t play at our tennis club cos your racket is worth too much, please start with this basic model.

2) They will be wearing generic kit : no affiliation to any local club or sponsorship : so who are these people?

People who’ve discovered that biking is the new golf. There have always been people with lots of money just wondering where to spend it, even many years ago we used to get the occasional banker etc in the shop where I worked with the phrase “what’s the best bike you’ve got?”, they’d buy the most expensive without any regard as to why, it was just what they wanted.

3) They do not take part in local races or time trials or mtb events

I can see where you’re coming from. Cycle sport relies very heavily on volunteers to organise, marshal, commissaire etc and that relies very much on a club structure, a governing body to oversee things like race licences, commissaires, insurance etc but Sportives (generally) lie outside that, they’re put on by private companies or individuals on a for-profit basis. So yes, in that respect they’re not putting anything back.

In the same way that there are a lot of MTBers for whom MTBing means “drive to trail centre, unpack £4000 bike, pad up like Darth Vader, mince round red route, have cake, go home, tell friends how rad you were” there are a lot of roadies for whom road riding means “pay £30 online, drive to venue, unpack £4000 bike, ride round fully waymarked roads, have cake, go home, tell friends all about your “race”, look at shiny new kit ready for next ride”

None of them are contributing to the club/race scene but in a wider way they are contributing – more money in bike shops, more cyclists on the road. Unfortunately, the attitude and skills of some of them leaves a bit to be desired but then I could say the same about the attitude and skills of the last person who came round to fix my boiler…

It’s not up to you to judge them just cos they’ve worked hard and earned enough money to buy a nice bike. Even if they do look bloody stupid riding it! 😉

The only reason some sportives are not races is the insurance and licensing issues. My only real experience is the Northern Rock Cycone. They use electronic timing so it’s pretty accurate. There are standards to hit on the full distance if you want a challenge (Gold silver and Bronze). Gold is very tough and I think only 50 riders out of 1000 made it inside the time. Some people just want to get round others (I’ll include myself) can get round 100miles comfortably so like a bit of a challenge to aim for.

There are plenty of equivalents in the mtb event calender that are refered to as races. I believe the Whinlatter challenge is not a race but a timed mass start challenge event. The same is true of the CRC marathons. Still people ride them as races.

From a personal point of view I go out to ride the one’s I’ve done as fast as possible. IF I wanted to go for a steady 100mile ride then I’d just go on my own without entry fee and support. Riding fast in a group is fun and the occasion makes the pace and atmosphere different from a typical club run or chaingang. There is no point trying to drop people though or using any tactics. It’s more like a group timetrial.

And finally, proper races are short, not 30km (Shortest ones I’ve done are TLI Tuesday nights at 30miles but they are quicker because of it). A sportive for most is the closest they’ll get to riding in a big group/ peleton over a long distance as I imagine some of them have watched on TV and were inspired enough to take up biking.

@oldgit – a Time Trial isn’t a race then?

I knew you’d bring that up. They are I suppose, but the irony in that comes from how and why time trialing begun. A way to race when racing on public roads was I think against the law.
The thing is we have races, anyone who is old enough to enter a sportive can probably enter a race.
Like I said one of the main rules of a sportive is that it is not a race. How anyone can call it one or take pleasure in saying they did well in an event that could have eighty year old grannies and overweight recovering heart patients in it needs to take a reallity check.

TBH I took a very snobish view of sportives, and was a totally miserable git when I did some, but now I accept them and value their place in cycling.
And ther are SPORTIVES 8) and there are sportives 🙄

And back to the OPs point, I wonder if he refers to some of the Oafs that roll up to their first event with no understanding of how to ride with other people?
Again me being a little old fashioned can sort of see his point, I was brought up to be a little humble and sit at the back and progress through my cycling. But it is a bit ‘I want it all now’ these days. And to a certain degree I agree on the bike and kit issue, just being old fashioned again though. But I have been very lucky to ride with on occasions (not race with I should add) some ex TdF riders, ex GB and a senior USA and world masters TT champion and none of them had bikes to match the bling even on here.

Question. We know that sportives are not races. They are timed rides with finishing bands. And we also know that the rules of the highway code must apply during the event.
So if someone gets a good time by lets say jumping every red light, not stopping at crossings etc, have they cheated.

So to be a proper road rider – you have to race then?

That is exactly the attitude of the local clubs around my area – who it seems are all about TT’s first, then the local races and lastly some training rides for the first two only. The clubs are putting blinkers on themselves here – and come with a dreadful snobbish attitde when you call up the secreatry to join but say that you are not wanting to race.

I personally just like social riding – don’t feel I want to race – and know I won’t be at the top of any timesheets. But then I do like to do better against myself. I do this when I go out for my own local rides, I use a GPS and record the ride so I can compare it with previous attempts.

I guess, i’m what you call one of the ‘All the gear – no idea’ type riders – mid 40’s nice bikes, but overweight and don’t belong to a club (anymore).

Plus I drive a big german 4×4 and work in the banking industry too 😆

Who is gonna tell Steve Peat he’s not a racer?

Sportives clearly are races but carefully organised so as not to fall foul of “no racing on the road”

oldgit – Member
How anyone can call it one or take pleasure in saying they did well in an event that could have eighty year old grannies and overweight recovering heart patients in it needs to take a reallity check.

Much like the mountainbike races I have been in? Or such things as the london marathon, great north run?

As ever, it’s about definitions.

Sportives are not races tho some fantasists, wannabes and Walter Mitty types treat them as such. The only true mass start road races are road races, crits, APRs etc. If you can’t keep up you are out of the picture. They dole out points, which go towards your standing in a rating system or league.

Some treat marathons etc as fun runs rather than races.

I heard a rider loudly proclaiming at one event how he was “in the top 20” in some Sportive event

or a certain west country sponsored mountain bike rider ‘winning’ a local charity ride 😆

Correct me if I’m wrong, but sportives as I understand them basically involve paying someone so that you can ride on the road. Not even just that. Paying someone so that you can ride on the road at the same time as a load of other cyclists, which means the pubs and tea shops will be full, and drivers will be getting pissed off at everyone. And not even just that. Paying someone so that you can ride on the road at the same time as a load of other people who all think that this is a good idea, meaning that they’re basically wrong in the head because any sane person would just get their bike, find a route, ride it, have some coffee and cake, and that would be that.

To me it all just sounds like handing over cash to have your ride ruined. The only possible remaining thing that I can think of which would appeal to anyone is the idea that you could dickwave with your fancy carbon wheels, or perhaps the idea that you could come first in a field of people who aren’t competing.

You might as well just hang out down the men’s bogs with your fella out, or start trying to beat two-year olds at Scrabble instead of just joining in with the simple fun of hiding the letters in daddy’s shoes.

Much like the mountainbike races I have been in? Or such things as the london marathon, great north run?

Entirely different. All the events you quote involve cordoned-off courses. If you want to get a couple of hundred people together to run* 26 miles round London, in the road, on a normal Saturday, with no onlookers and no prizes and no people dressed up as chickens, then you can use that as an analogy.

* jog, in carbon shoes

i know a few people who have done sportives (i haven’t done one). the people who refer to them as races have never done an official race, and do not know there is another level. those who have raced see them as training or just another option if they do not want to race any more, or no race that weekend etc.

Isn’t it also about being ‘a cyclist’ vs ‘a person on a bike’?

ie: cycling is one of those things that kind of gets under your skin, I mean look at the levels of obsession about kit, technique, memory of a day when everything flowed etc we all get up to? Sometimes riding the bike becomes more important and meaningful than anything else in our lives.

So seeing people new to the sport turn up with top end kit but not the corresponding level of experience and skill to justify it and act like they are a ‘cyclist’ rather than ‘a person on an expensive bike’ and effectively try and buy their way into the sport, something we love and work hard at. Well, it’s bound to cause some resentment isn’t it?

This is different from judging someone because they have cheap kit, it’s about people pretending to be something they’re not…

I’m have a lovely Sunday-morning, post-ride LOL at the petted-lip club racing brigade. Keep it up chaps.

Are ‘Serious Sportive’ riders the most annoying type of cyclist?

Not judging by the responses on this thread 🙂

This thread is gold.

The folks upset that their bike isn’t the most bling should just crush the posers into whimpering submission. Works for me. Also, avoid sportives.

Bike shop salesman- Can I help you Sir?
Customer- Yes I would like to buy a bike to take part in some sportives and such.
Bss- Do you have a budget in mind?
C- Yes up to £2500
Bss- Oh that’s a lot, could I recommend you buy this lower end Bike for £450, as you appear to be a MAMIL and are not deserving of our finer machines, also I would be very jealous ’cause I’m on minimum wage and cannot afford such luxury like you.
C- No I would like a quality machine that I feel good on and grow with and hopefully annoy those on lesser machines to the point of internet forum winging.
Bss- Very well Sir, thank you for your custom

Damn, beaten to it by joat! Was just about to post something similar!

FWIW – most of our new roadies spend somewhere between £750 and 1000 on the bike. Cube Attempt is very popular.

I hope you tell them exactly what level they’re restricted to with that bike Colin? Wouldn’t want them to turn up at a Sportive and offend a STW Forumite now would we?

😉

Yep, could someone more informed than me please post a definitive list of average ride speeds/bike costs so we all know when we are allowed to upgrade. One for on road and one for off road please.

I suspect that a lot of mtbers would be shamefacedly handing in their bikes in the ensuing amnesty…..

Lol@ this thread. I am doing my first 55 mile sportive on Sat. It isnt costing me a penny so its all good. I am looking forward to having a ride with some mates. If there are folk on exotica who are slow who cares??? I could only afford a 2011 focus cayo 105 to venture into the carbon world; but i certainly dont begrudge anyone on more expensive bikes, i admire their shinyness.

Yep, could someone more informed than me please post a definitive list of average ride speeds/bike costs so we all know when we are allowed to upgrade

Can’t really help as it seems to be a bit of a closed shop

All I can say is – it’s often more aesthetics rather than function, clean shoes, freshly shaved legs and shiny helmet etc.
They seem to talk about earning things all the time and have lots of Masonic type hand signals and chants whilst riding, so not sure if this is linked to what you’re allowed to buy next or not